Newb to mead and brewing - melomel question

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FrayAdjacent

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I finally got around to a goal in life (maybe not a huge one, but something I've always wanted to do) - trying some mead. I found a bottle of Chaucer's locally on Saturday, but didn't like it much. Sunday, I visited a meadery - the Rohan Meadery in La Grange, Texas, and tried some of their product.

I'm not a wine connoisseur, and in fact, I don't like wine very much at all, so I don't have a lot of experience to compare. I know that I dislike dry wines more than sweeter wines, so that's a start.

Rohan had several varieties to try - a traditional that was semi sweet, an apple cyser, a raspberry melomel and a wassail they made with their orange spice mead. All were good, with the wassail being awesome and the raspberry being my next favorite. I left with a bottle of the raspberry melomel and a bottle of the orange spice.

Well, I have decided that I'm going to jump into brewing. Being in Austin, TX has an advantage - Austin Homebrew supply is right here in town! I'm going to go in a week or so and get a few 1gal bottles, and all the bits and stuff. My plan is to make a few gallons individually of different types, so I can experiment a bit, and find recipes I like. Then I'll get the 5 gal buckets and carboys for larger batches.

I have in mind to brew a semi-sweet to sweet traditional, a raspberry melomel, and something with vanilla, brown sugar and probably cinnamon.

I've read a bit about the brewing process, and think I have a pretty good grasp on it, but I have one question about it.

Considering I like the semi-sweet to sweet range, and I think I'd like a medium fruit character, when and what proportion of the raspberry would I add? All into the starting must, or part of it in the starting must, and the rest after the primary ferment is done?

As I understand it, anything and everything in the original must will ferment, and I've read different procedures as to when to add fruits to melomels.
 
There are differing opinions on when to add the fruit. However, regardless of when you add the fruit, unless you kill of the yeast or they are at their tolerance level for alcohol, they will ferment the added sugars.
 
Currently I am working on a Raspberry Mead. Here's what I did: Fermented the Primary with 18 pounds of honey and 5 gal of water. 2 packets of D47 and a tablespoon of both yeast energizer and Yeast Nutrient. Once the Primary was done, I pureed 11 pounds of raspberries and ran that through a strainer to remove seeds. I then pureed again and hit it up with some Pectic Enzyme. The resulting puree and juice I added to the secondary when the fermentation had slowed down to about 1 bubble a minute. Racking off of the lees and onto the puree.

It didn't look like it was fermenting that much but the yeasties loved the puree. It fermented completly dry and tart after that. Oh, also expect to lose about 1/3 of your volume in pulp. Also rack the red pulp to another container, preferabally tall and thin. Reason is that it will settle out some more and you will be able to save about 1/4 to 1/2 the puree that you were going to throw away. It does settle out some more but all in all a huge loss of volume. That is ok as it does ferment dry and tart.

I then hit up the volume with some Potasium Sorbate to stop the yeasts in their tracks, very important. Let sit for a week to make sure all the yeasties are dead, then Back sweeten.

I Back Sweetened with 1 gal of water and 6 more pounds of honey because I am going to oak it and oaking will take a little sweetness out but leave it very smooth and remove some of the harshness.

I racked onto the sweet galon of water, adding back the lost volume as that is 1 1/2 gal of liquid. This is for a 6 gal batch. Also, I will be waiting for this to settle clear again as backsweetening will require some clearing time from the Honey Addition. But prior to that it was looking like a clear red wine and beautiful. Just dry and tart, would taste great carbonated. But after the sweetening, It tasted lovely. Just needs to age. I plan on oaking it and adding some Thyme to balance and create a more complex flavor. Waiting for Spring for fresh Thyme.

So that is my tale of my Red Raspberry.

To answer your question: I would use about 10 pounds for a 5 gal batch. You might be able to get away with 8 pounds but you may need to sweeten it up a bit more. Stabalizing (the potasium Sorbate) and Backsweeting (addtion of honey water) will be neccessary as the Yeasty Beasties LOVE the juice and in retrospect I probably didn't need as much yeast energizer. Just add a little puree like a cup in primary. Overall, this is my suggestions.

Hope it turns out well
 
Well to the club, Fray! And thanks for the info on Rohan's Meadery. I have driven through La Grange so many times and never knew that they had a meadery. I am definitely putting in down on my list of to do's for summer vacation.

Living so close to AHB has it ups and downs. Up side is that they are right there when you need them. Down side is they are right there when you don't have the money to spend and want to anyways! They do have a starter kit with everything you need to start making mead but it is expensive (because it has alot of stuff and it is good quality). Or you could buy as you go along, just don't purchase any bottles. There are places all around Austin you can get free bottles and they are good bottles for mead(375 ml).

Happy meading!
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys. MeadWitch, Rohan is good stuff and good people. Definite check 'em out. I was happy to find a meadery so close to where I live.

As for the melomel question, I figured that adding more fruit in after the primary ferment and first racking might result in more fermentation, but maybe getting the batch almost to the alcohol content the yeast can tolerate, then adding some fruit? But then... that would just be back sweetening, right?

Maybe a good thing if I want a semi-sweet fruit bodied taste, I should do pretty much a traditional and back sweeten with fruit?
 
Two things occur to me when you make additions:

1. When you add volume, this thins out the alcohol content. It is a matter of percentages. When you add you are giving more volume for the yeast to work and more sugar and lowering the alcohol content. This can factor into it. Don't worry about exactness as it probably isn't much but it will take away sugar.

2. Fermenting more volume will get the yeast active again. You are thining out the ABV% and thus as I said giving more room for the yeast to work. This can mess with the alcohol tolerance therory. So, YES it will add more sweetness and some of the sugar in that sweetness will go away unless you stabalize the Mead by using Potasium Sorbate.

Here's what Potasium Sorbate does: It stops the yeast from replicating. Yeast has an actual lifespan of a few days, so when it's ability to reproduce has stopped the colony of yeas will die and then settle out in the must. Now this is not a guarntee that ALL the yeast is dead, they are hearty buggers but when you "Stabalize", that is add Potasium Sorbate to it, this minimizes the amount of sugar the yeast takes away from your sweetness..

Backsweetning is kinda an art. You kill the yeast first. Then take a volume and add honey water, in a proportion that you know, to the sample volume and taste it until you are happy with the sweetness. Then you take a proportional volume of Honey Water (same ratio of honey to water) and add it to all of you mead. Mix well, then wait for the cloudyness of the new honey to settle and for it to clear again before bottling. Tasting it prior to bottling should prove to have about the same sweetness as you tasted earlier.

In a Nutshell that is backsweetening. Now most of us don't measure and just add the honey water and just aproximate things as we are not profesional breweries and don't have to account for the exact recipie to make it exactly the same again in a new batch and keep track of exactly what the ABV% is. Happy accidents happen. We play to our tastes.

Oh, One more thing: You may want to boil your honey water a bit so that you kill the yeast in it, or dose it with potasium sorbate and wait a day or so before adding it. This is to make sure you are not re-introducing wild yeasts back in with the addition of the honey.

That's all I got.
 
You can add fruit fruit at the end of primary and get a result similar to having it in secondary. The advantage is that it is easy to add fruit to a bucket, and then rack out of it. Putting fruit in a carboy is a PITA.

When you do add the fruit it will dilute your alcohol level a little bit in most cases because the fruit juice/puree usually has a sugar level much lower than the starting gravity of your mead (except with fully ripe grapes). The fermentation of the fruit gives a more complex taste in the same way that wine tastes different from grape juice, and I happen to like it, but if you stabilize the mead before adding the fruit, you'll keep more of the "raw fruit" character, and you'll definitely dilute the the alcohol (so you may want a slightly higher amount to start with).

One point to remember - use of sorbate alone is not adequate to reliably prevent renewed fermentation. I'm not saying that it will always fail, just that the chances of failure are much higher using sorbate alone (even at doses as high as 500 ppm) than using the combination of sorbate with sulfite.

Medsen
 
Diluting the alcohol content and giving the yeast more room to grow makes a ton of sense.

So if I wanted to end up with a particular alcohol content, I'd want to proportion everything so it's going to end up at a higher ABV before backsweetening. Backsweetening would water it down a bit. Using Potassium Sorbate before backsweetening should stop the yeasties from reproducing, but sometimes they still grow.


See, I'm learning so much before I even start. The internet is awesome for this! You guys are the reason it's such an awesome resource.

It'll probably still be a couple weeks before I go buy some gear, so I'm going to keep reading around, soaking up info and planning. Hopefully my first batches will be successful!
 
I went ahead and ordered the Compleat Mead Maker offa Amazon, and will give it a read when I get it. Then probably next weekend, I'll get some stuff to start my first couple small batches.
 
Thanks for the props, Ace Club.

Backsweetening only dilutes the mead if you add more water. You can dissolve the honey in some of the mead, and then add that to the full volume, and voila, no dilution.

All yeasts have an alcohol tolerance, beyond which they stop producing ETOH, and in most cases die. If you provide enough honey at the start to reach that point, and they yeast s not starved for nutrients, that's what you'll end up with. Any more hone than that ends up as residual sweetness. That's the aproach I try to take.

If you are shooting for a medium sweet raspberry mead, and like D-47, you could start with that 18 lbs of honey, dilute it up to about 5 gallons, and add, say 10-12 lbs of raspberries. It'll be pretty raspberry-y. Pitch they yeast, stir every day or so, and add 1/2 tsp DAP and 1/4 tsp Fermaid K each time for four days. Then let it ferment itself out, get it off the fruit (you should end up with ~5 gallons when you leave the fruit and the yeast cake behind) and off you go.

BTW, the Siphon Tap is a great way to get a fruit mead out from under a cap of mushy fruit. It won't get everything, and you may have to clean it a couple of times during the process, but it's a decent pre-fab solution. No commercial relationship.
 
Backsweetening only dilutes the meed if you add more water. You can dissolve the honey in some of the mead, and then add that to the full volume, and voila, no dilution.

Ken, even if you add no water, there is always a volume increase that comes with adding the honey. Although in most cases the amount of dilution is negligible, in some cases it can be substantial. I am currently making another batch of my Sour-orange (Seville orange) melomel, and for a 5-gallon batch, I'll have to add close to 3/4 gallon of honey (it has to be quite sweet to balance the massive load of acidity). When I do this I am increasing the volume of the batch by 15% and that will reduce the ABV by about 13% even though I am adding no water at all.

When I make it, I plan the ABV to be a high enough that it will end up where I want it after that dilution. If folks use fruit/juices to sweeten the dilution will be even more pronounced unless they are using concentrates.

Medsen
 
I understand what you are saying, Medsen. I was more referring to the plan to dissolve the honey in water before adding it to the mead, since Matrix4B had mentioned adding another gallon of water and 6 lbs of honey. I was implying that just adding the honey on its own (sans H20) won't thin down the finished gravity, though you are right, it will reduce the percentage of ETOH. Just a matter of which side of the coin (RS vs ETOH) you are looking at.
 
Thanks for the props, Ace Club.

Backsweetening only dilutes the mead if you add more water. You can dissolve the honey in some of the mead, and then add that to the full volume, and voila, no dilution.

All yeasts have an alcohol tolerance, beyond which they stop producing ETOH, and in most cases die. If you provide enough honey at the start to reach that point, and they yeast s not starved for nutrients, that's what you'll end up with. Any more hone than that ends up as residual sweetness. That's the aproach I try to take.

If you are shooting for a medium sweet raspberry mead, and like D-47, you could start with that 18 lbs of honey, dilute it up to about 5 gallons, and add, say 10-12 lbs of raspberries. It'll be pretty raspberry-y. Pitch they yeast, stir every day or so, and add 1/2 tsp DAP and 1/4 tsp Fermaid K each time for four days. Then let it ferment itself out, get it off the fruit (you should end up with ~5 gallons when you leave the fruit and the yeast cake behind) and off you go.

BTW, the Siphon Tap is a great way to get a fruit mead out from under a cap of mushy fruit. It won't get everything, and you may have to clean it a couple of times during the process, but it's a decent pre-fab solution. No commercial relationship.

Thanks for the feedback, Ken. Your book is on the way to my house as I write this. Already planning a trip to Austin HomeBrew Supply possibly next weekend, though I may have to wait since I have some large bills about to pound me.
 
I understand what you are saying, Medsen. I was more referring to the plan to dissolve the honey in water before adding it to the mead, since Matrix4B had mentioned adding another gallon of water and 6 lbs of honey. I was implying that just adding the honey on its own (sans H20) won't thin down the finished gravity, though you are right, it will reduce the percentage of ETOH. Just a matter of which side of the coin (RS vs ETOH) you are looking at.

Too true. I had not considered just adding honey to the must for backsweetning. Mostly due to my need to bulk up my raspberry after so much volume loss with the pulp. I also found it easier for me to add it in more of a liquid form. I have also found your book invaluable. It got me started on mead making.

For me the addition of more water was not a big deal as sometimes thining down the ABV% is a good thing. I brew for taste primarily, not to have a high ABV%. My meads have been ending up around 15-18% wit D-47 and doing nothing truely diffrent. I don't even do step nutrients. I personally think it is the altitude as I live in Denver, CO. Or near enough. Are there any books that cover this?

Also, I have been trying to get good flavor out of nuts, almonds in paticular but I plan on trying a Vanilla Walnut after my Vanilla Almond turned out too sweet at first. I can't find much information on brewing with nuts or how much spices to use when brewing with spices and not making a tea. Or Fresh vs Dried spices. Oops, hyjacking the thread, sorry.
 
Matrix, I understand losing some volume when racking when you have a lot of fruit in the mix... Would it possibly help to get a strainer and then after racking, strain the sediment and add it back to the brew? Then rack again later to deal with what sediment is left.

Might cut down on volume loss.
 
For me a strainer only went so far. The pulp went right through. Also a coffee filter was too dense. I found a paper towel helpful but a bit dodgy. It kept on breaking on me and clogging up too much. I did manage to salvage about a 1/3 of what would have been tossed by putting it all in a gallon container and letting it settle out again. This proved helpful. I found that was my best bet. Ofcourse I pureed the raspberries and ran it through a screen to remove the seeds. I took the seeds and put it in a large jar with 2 cups of rum. Can't wait to strain that one out. Should get some raspberry extract like substance there that can be used for cooking. But I digress.

The best solution that I have, short of a filter and pump set up that I wish I had, is to run it through a screen then put the resulting pulp in a gallon container and wait for it to settle. It would be great if I had a tall narrow container to put it in as that seemed to help out in the settling process.

The pulp is noticablly white compaired to the red liquid so it was easy to rack off on top of it. Good luck.
 
I take a fine mesh brew bag and wrap it around my cane. The bag is a long one that extends out of the bucket. This removes 95% of the particles. I rack onto more honey which takes up the extra head space. I then rack one more time on to more honey using the cane wraped with fine mesh brew bag. This removes almost all of the particles in my blueberry melomels. I have not tried this for raspberries.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. On another forum's suggestion, I checked out Craigslist and found a guy selling a full beer brewing kit. It has a few things I won't need, but the price is great. I want to try brewing some beer eventually, so the other stuff will be useful.
 
Got the first batch brewing!

firstbatchmead.jpg


Mixed the must and pitched the Flieschmann's yeast a few hours ago, and it's already bubbling away! This is the 'cheap store bought stuff' recipe for a traditional. I bought a 5 gal bucket and a couple 1gal jugs at Austin Homebrew Supply today, figuring I'll start on a 5 gal batch of raspberry melomel soon... then checked how much I'll have to spend for the fruit and honey....

... now I'm thinking I might get a few more 1gal bottles and try some smaller batches to test out some recipes I might like. Will be easier on the wallet, and I'll probably be better able to make my $ into good mead.
 

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