AG VS Extract

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Will an All Grain brew always result in a better beer than an extract brew ?

Not always. Their are many different variables and one can still produce a very good beer using extract

is using malt extract a comprimise ?.

I would say it is. Depending on brew space and how long one has been doing it determines how far someone is willing to go with it. Are their people who go straight to ag, yes. But is it a compromise of taste and a better beer, I dont think so. I did extracts for about a year before I went ag and by the end of that year I feel like I was producing some pretty good stuff. Especially when I got into steeping specialty grains. My roommate and I won 3rd place in a local comp for our double and that was an extract brew. The only thing ag affords more then extract is control over the process, which can help make a better tasting beer but is not always the case. I would just try to always get fresh extract but sometimes that can be easier said then done.
 
Ive only "brewed" once - with a Coopers kit. Is it advisable to go straight to AG or would you suggest I start with a couple of extract brews first ?
Theres alot of info on this forum - Im fairly confident of getting it right (more or less).
 
I'd say the answer is relative to your definition of a better beer. Supposedly with the all grain approach you get more flexibility in crafting the flavor of the beer. Personally I do both and tend to mix the two to suppliment recipes.

I don't think you have to do extract brews before taking the all grain approach. Grain brewing is a little more involved with the grain crush, mashing and sparging aspects but even if you fubar some aspects of those you'll still make a good beer. Just have a good reference book nearby, make sure you have all the basic equipment you need and do it.
 
Try a partial mash first or even steeping grains before you go 100% AG... A lot of people stop at PM because it's "close enough."
 
In my opinion, the first key to making good beer from extract is to throw away the packet of dried yeast and use a liquid yeast from White Labs or Wyeast. The yeast has as much to do with the flavour as anything else. The taste difference between re-hydrated malt extract and homemade all grain wort is probably similar to the difference between frozen orange juice and fresh squeezed. It will still taste a lot like beer.
All grain brewing is as much about the process as it is the product. It's like cunducting a six hour long chemistry experiment in your kitchen. It all depends on the time and effort you are willing to invest in it. Sometimes, half way through a long sparge, I really wish that I had just opend a can of Coopers extract instead, but when I open a bottle of AG homebrew I proudly think to myself, I made this from scratch! That's pretty cool.
 
Start with extract. You can make great beer with extract, or at least good beer.

As a rule of thumb, if you can't make a decent extract beer (read: drinkable) then you probably won't make a very good AG beer. It's also a good idea to start extract because it's cheaper, and if you decide to quit brewing after 5 or 6 batches you won't be out hundreds of dollars! Not that you would ever decide such a thing though....
 
I started with extract because it's cheaper. What most of us don't remember or understand is that an AG mash is scary for the first timer -- I remember that I thought I'd have to buy a thermometer for my oven as I was going to have to roast my own barley. I'm sure there are some elitists out there who think like that, but they are few and far between. I'm still playing with extracts, as well as extract-based PG worts. Nothing wrong with experimenting, as even if you eff up, you'll still have something that you can proudly drink.
 
If I can throw in my 2 cents.
I have found liquid extract to have a "twang" to it and may not be exactly fresh, Dry extract is more expensive but I think better. I went to AG because it allows me more flexibility and I enjoy mashing, it just smells really good.
I have made great beer with extract and make great beer with AG, just the AG allows me to really control more, but I think fermentation temperature control has more of an impact. Lots of variables to making great beer and I'm still working on all of them and still learning after over a decade I still feel like a noob.
 
I prefer liquid extract, but I get mine in bulk at my LHBS rather than out of a can. No twang at all in my beers.

I also recommend partial mash. Start small with a little grain and mostly extract and work your way into having the grain be more and more of your brew. You'll find you can do almost anything an AG brewer can do.
 
I started with extract because it's cheaper. What most of us don't remember or understand is that an AG mash is scary for the first timer -- I remember that I thought I'd have to buy a thermometer for my oven as I was going to have to roast my own barley. I'm sure there are some elitists out there who think like that, but they are few and far between. I'm still playing with extracts, as well as extract-based PG worts. Nothing wrong with experimenting, as even if you eff up, you'll still have something that you can proudly drink.

I've found just the opposite... all-grain is cheaper than extract. Speaking of just ingredients, that is. There are significant equipment costs, of course.

And there's no denying extract is faster. I just did my first all-grain batch and it took six hours from starting to heat up the strike water to putting the airlock on the fermenter.

Nothing wrong with extract, either...I made an awesome IPA last batch from extract. (Making an all-grain batch of the same beer next.)

So I guess it boils down to, if you're happy with extract, stay with it. If you want to venture into all-grain, I encourage you to give it a shot. Maybe brew with someone else who already has the equipment, once or twice, and see if it's worth it to you to get the equipment and spend the extra time.
 
To me, the main difference between extract and all-grain is time... It definitely takes more time to do the all-grain. Of course, the equipment costs are relatively high to start up, but capitalized over time, it will be cheaper (or so I try to convince myself, as I keep expanding my equipment inventory).

I've got about a dozen all-grains under my belt in the past four months or so, and I've gotten to the point where things are reproducible within a pretty tight window. I've also taught my GF how to all-grain (she's never done an extract brew, but did one partial mash). I was actually a bit underwhelmed from my first batch, mainly because I had researched all-grain ad nauseum for about five years. I don't find it any more difficult, it just takes more time and there are more things that can go wrong.
 
Will an All Grain brew always result in a better beer than an extract brew ?
In other words is using malt extract a comprimise ?

I'd say it is just a different way of doing things. I MUCH prefer all grain. There's a huge level of control there that you won't get from extract. You can make decent beer with extract, but I think the level of fine tuning is just not there.

Ive only "brewed" once - with a Coopers kit. Is it advisable to go straight to AG or would you suggest I start with a couple of extract brews first ?
Theres alot of info on this forum - Im fairly confident of getting it right (more or less).

If you want to do it, then do it. You are really not going to learn more by boiling extract. The techniques in yeast handling, proper pitching rates, and temperature control are far more important in the long run and will be where you start to really improve. If you think you can do it, go for it.


In my opinion, the first key to making good beer from extract is to throw away the packet of dried yeast and use a liquid yeast from White Labs or Wyeast.

I sort of disagree. Some dry yeast works just fine. I like US-05 a lot and I will continue to use it on anything I want to have a clean yeast profile on. Diversity dictates that I move away from dry yeast on a number of products, but to say US-05 or Notty are not good is just incorrect.

And to the, "extract beers have won national competitions" suggestion... Yes they have, but percentage-wise, how many?
 
In my opinion, the first key to making good beer from extract is to throw away the packet of dried yeast and use a liquid yeast from White Labs or Wyeast.
No, no, no, no, NO!!!

Misuse of liquid yeast will result in TERRIBLE beer, and liquid yeast is misused A LOT. You need a starter...period. "Pitchable" is just a term the labs use to get you to buy their products. Also, a ill prepared starter (one that is contaminated or one that is not given enough time, food, volume, or oxygen) is just as bad as no starter at all. Liquid yeast has its place (unique strains that are otherwise unattainable), but it is not the panacea of homebrewing.

On the other hand, a package of dry yeast contains enough viable yeast to ferment most 5 gallon batches. It requires no starter, and it's hard to screw up rehydration. True, the variety is somewhat limited, but if you want a clean, fast ferment, use dry yeast.

To write off dry yeast completely is as ignorant as saying, "all grain is always better than extract."
 
I brewed about 10 extract batches and most of the time, I had a bitter taste. The beer was good, buy that twang I couldn't get rid of. Since I've gone to all grain( 12+ batches), None of them had that taste. Not sure why. I should've gone to all grain from the get go....

Your crazy if you throw out the dry yeast. I almost always use dry yeast and IMHO I make very good beer.
 
Even if the plan is to brew AG, I think it is good to start with extract. There are many variables and techniques involved in brewing that should be learned before doing a mash.
 
Thanks to Yuri and Carnevoodoo for pointing out my misguided comment about throwing away dry yeast. If I hod proof-read my submission I might have made the distinction between Fermentis US-05 and the packet that comes in the lid of the extract kits. When I started using good yeast and improved my technique my beer improved greatly. When I switched to all grain from extract, I also noticed an improvement.
But back to the subject of extract vs. AG, A beer is only as good as it's weakest link. Sanitation, hops, temperature, yeast, time, kegging, bottling, environmental variables, luck... they all play a role weather you're sparging or opening a can to get your wort.
The main thing is; brewing beer and drinking beer is fun!
 
Having brewed 100 batches of AG beer after I brewed 17 extract/PM batches, I can generally say that I'm happier with the AG beers. I did, however, open one of those extract brews a couple of weeks ago and it was a damn fine beer.

AG brewing, to me, is for those that want to have better recipe control. Using extract certainly doesn't mean that you can't make good beer.
 
check out death brewers partial mash thread/sticky. You can do a partial mash/half mash on the stove and have plenty of control with a recipe.
 
I think the best beer I've made so far (in terms of closest to what it was intended to be) was my first Mr. Beer batch.

All subsequent extract batches I made were not good at all, so I made the move to AG. I guess this will be the test to see if I suck, or if my extract wasn't all that great. I was using liquid extract which some people dislike for a lot of the reasons that my extract beer did not turn out well.

However, since I have only done four batches, I also recognize that I probably need a lot more practice before I can make a good beer whether it is AG or extract.

But having just switched to AG, I really don't think there is a need to use extract as a crutch for simplicity. I think it can actually be counter intuitive to have people start with extract and then go to AG. The reason I say this is that you are forced to learn a lot by going to AG, and I think that helps control the overall quality not only of the end product but also of the process.
 
Like southern biscuits, the canned stuff will certainly hit the spot but nothing comes close to made from scratch....assuming the cook doesn't screw up.
 
I started AG after 2 extract batches. The extract batches turned out very good. On the other side of the arguement I think that extract brewing allows you to produce more repeatable and brews plus they tend to be very clear. I do like AG better though and it is more affordable.
 
Most people say one of the biggest advantages to AG is clearer beer. So I don't think that's an advantage to extract.

And I see comments about affordability a lot, but I am not sure I understand that. Unless you are buying in bulk, my extract and AG batches are basically the same cost.
 
Most people say one of the biggest advantages to AG is clearer beer. So I don't think that's an advantage to extract.

And I see comments about affordability a lot, but I am not sure I understand that. Unless you are buying in bulk, my extract and AG batches are basically the same cost.

You need a different LHBS then, I think. I do partial mashes and the more grain and less extract I use in a recipe, the cheaper it is.
 
I enjoyed making extract beer in the beginning and was very proud of it, but I definitely feel that AG is significantly better.

My advice is to start with extract, then move to extract with steeping grains and then go to AG. I felt like doing a partial mash was a bit of a waste of time. It takes the same amount of time to mash 2lbs of grain as it does to mash 12lbs. and the skills required are pretty much the same.

Just my non award winning beer opinion.

Oh yeah, I would recommend using US-05 or Nottingham. As long as your fermentation temperature is below 70 and above the high 50's you can pitch them dry and it's very difficult to make a mistake with these yeasts.
 
This is just one man's opinion, but I find PM recipes a lot more fun. You still can tweak and experiment with the grain and extract to make a unique beer, but there is more forgiveness in the final product. There are a LOT of variables in AG and if you like to drink while brewing (like I do), it's a lot easier to minizmize or eliminate some of those variables that might produce a "miss" on your expected beer. Also, it's the best of both worlds if you're pressed for time or you have to juggle responsibilities while brewing. Like I said, this is just one man's opinion.

As far as yeast goes, I like to experiment with both dry and liquid (not at the same time). So far, a properly prepared liquid and a properly prepared dry produce very good results. The liquid tends to result in a closer end result as far as your intended style.
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I think any difference in quality that I perceive in my own beers, regarding AG vs extract, are mostly psychological.

That being said, I think the actual process of brewing an AG beer is way more fun.
 
I go extract if only for the fact that I can't afford AG startup equipment, and I'm brewing out of an apartment. That said, I think a lot of people who have off flavors from their extract brews are using lousy extract. My LHBS sells extract in bulk, and they move through a fair amount of it, so it's always fresh. Like with any other sort of cooking, the quality of your base ingredients goes a long way toward the quality of your finished product.
 
I go extract if only for the fact that I can't afford AG startup equipment, and I'm brewing out of an apartment.

I had the same situation for a long time. My extremely cramped apartment kitchen wouldn't really accomodate much more than the absolute bare minimum of brewing gear. Now I have a house with a larger kitchen and a basement that stays nice and cool in the summer. :rockin:
 
I started out as an extract brewer because that is all I knew as I was certainly not on this board and that is what my friend showed me.

The only way I knew AG was seeing the different brew in a bag kits and that there is a All Grain option. I was like "what the hell is that?". Well I decided to find out and I am certainly glad I did. It takes longer but I think that adds more fun to the experience with things like mashing and crushing the grains etc... Plus there is the whole control factor. I don't think I could have taken a 1.095 RIS down to 1.020 with WLP002 (averages 67% attenuation) with a extract recipe but I could by mashing at 149.
 
You need a different LHBS then, I think. I do partial mashes and the more grain and less extract I use in a recipe, the cheaper it is.

Or maybe the prices I was getting on extract were really good? Haha.

I bought my AG recipe from Brewmasters, which I think most people consider to be a competitively priced supplier. And my LHBS is a Morebeer store, so it really is possible that their prices are cheaper than the average LHBS.

So maybe I should clarify in saying that its may not be cheaper, especially if you get your supplies online.
 
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