Pappy`s Pub Cider - Award Winner!

I do have to say, i think this is my best applejack recipe yet.

Thanks Paps!

Damn this was a long read!

Thanks for the link to this Paps! Going to be starting 2 5gal batches later this week with plans to Jack one, and age half of the other. (at 15-20% don't see me going through too much too fast, but you never know especially with a session cider already fermenting).

Was wondering if anyone had every tried making snakebites using this cider? Could see those being either amazing or a good way to lose a day or two.

Also Biltit, when you Jack yours, do you mind me asking what temp and for how long? I am planning on doing mine at -25c in 4l jugs 2/3 full for 24hrs for the first freeze and seeing how much I can seperate before deciding on how many freezes to do. (also, do you pre spice your Jack or after jacking? The one time I helped an old co worker jack, the cinnamon came out ridiculously concentrated too.)

-23C and i leave it until it is frozen, usually a day minimum and many days sometimes.

I have never been able to do more than 3 freezes, just not frozen enough on the 4th. Works out well though because i can put the finished product in the freezer at -18C and it doesnt freeze or slush up, makes for a fantastically cold drink!

I havent spiced my jacks much but would do it after jacking for sure. I will try some cinnamon and maybe a few other spices this go around though.

I do mine in 2L pop bottles, tried a 4L milk jug but didnt like the way it worked.

Got 2 batches made yesterday and added an extra .5 tablespoon of yeast nutrients to help out with the fermentation at the temp range we are at right now. (right at the low end of the yeasts ability).

Got starting OGs of 1.125 and 1.122 for them but the second one didn't have all the sugar dissolve in it properly at first. My daughter decided she wanted to be my helper and when I turned to open more juice boxes she ended up pouring in more than I wanted and it was a b**** to stir and dissolve lol.

Not expecting to see activity until tonight but already getting excited.

Hello, just tried this recipe and it is wonderful. However, I have one question.

I followed the recipe exactly: 5 gal. Tree Top Apple Juice, 10 lbs sugar, the recommended yeast packet, and yeast nutrients. Here is the dates I did everything:

Started: 24 Jan
Moved to Secondary: 22 Feb
Added Super Clear: 1 Mar
Bottled: 4 Mar
Drank 1st Bottle: 15 Mar

The only thing i didn't do was cold crash it because I do not have a freezer big enough.

I tried my first bottle today and there was absolutely no signs of carbonation. Has anyone else had this problem? I know two weeks is recommended but I got a little curious. It tasted great, just no bubbles. Is there any ideas of anything I did wrong? Maybe I waited too long between one of the steps? Thanks for any feedback!

brandon138 said:

Hello,. Is there any ideas of anything I did wrong? !

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You didn't do anything wrong.
The recipe is to make a "still" cider.
Some preffer it "bubbly"
I personally keg EVERYTHING and have done so for so long that i don't at all
remember when i bottled to get natural carb. I do vuagely remember having a cork or two pop out of the bottles.

( IMPORTANT NOTICE....ONLY USE CHAMPAGNE OR BEER BOTTLES FOR THIS, NEVER REGULAR WINE BOTTLES IF YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO BOTTLE CARB )

Anyways...a few posters on here have posted rough approximations as to when to bottle to get carb. I don't remember which pages. Perhaps read the whole thread. Just be carefull....bottle bombs are no joke.

TGFV said:

Got starting OGs of 1.125 and 1.122 for them but the second one didn't have all the sugar dissolve in it properly at first. My daughter decided she wanted to be my helper and when I turned to open more juice boxes she ended up pouring in more than I wanted and it was a b**** to stir and dissolve lol.

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Just an FYI........
You don't need to stir/dissolve the sugar.
You can be a lazy arse like me and just pour it in.
I usually have probably a 2 inch layer of sugar at the bottom of the fermentor.
Scientifically i can't say if it's really better to dissolve the sugar or not.
All of it at the bottom "might" shield the yeast from sugar shock vs having it all in solution from the get go ( i have no evidence to back up this claim, it's just a hunch )
My reasoning as to not dissolving comes from time saving/pure laziness.
I like to keep things simple.
I do make little changes every now and then. But usually don't tell about those changes unless asked. (for example. I now use a pretty insane amount of yeast nutrient at the start of fermentation. 5 spoonfulls)
But after x amount of time, you cannot edit posts (as in the 1rst one to express any changes to the procedure) but i guess those interested enough read the whole thread and pick up on the info that way.

Anywho.....
brew on:rockin:

brandon138 said:

Hello, just tried this recipe and it is wonderful. However, I have one question.

I followed the recipe exactly: 5 gal. Tree Top Apple Juice, 10 lbs sugar, the recommended yeast packet, and yeast nutrients. Here is the dates I did everything:

Started: 24 Jan
Moved to Secondary: 22 Feb
Added Super Clear: 1 Mar
Bottled: 4 Mar
Drank 1st Bottle: 15 Mar

The only thing i didn't do was cold crash it because I do not have a freezer big enough.

I tried my first bottle today and there was absolutely no signs of carbonation. Has anyone else had this problem? I know two weeks is recommended but I got a little curious. It tasted great, just no bubbles. Is there any ideas of anything I did wrong? Maybe I waited too long between one of the steps? Thanks for any feedback!

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Hi Brandon. If you went right from fermentation/clearing into bottling, theoretically you let it ferment out all the way? That would mean no more sugar for bottle carbing. I can't say your experience, but if you did not add a little sugar into your bottling bucket or use carb drops, you probably will get no carbonation no matter how long you wait. If you did add a little sugar, i have had carb take up to 3 weeks or a little more. If you had any specific gravity info from start to finish it might help tell a story.

Hankhill11 said:

Hi Brandon. If you went right from fermentation/clearing into bottling, theoretically you let it ferment out all the way? That would mean no more sugar for bottle carbing..

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That is untrue for this particular recipe.
Adding more sugar at bottling does NOTHING as even EC-1118
will normally not be able to chew up all 2-LBS a gallon worth of table sugar.
If this were a beverage with a starting gravity of say1.040, then what you said would be accurate, but that is not the case with this recipe.

To get this sweet cider to carb in a bottle takes a good bit of timing regarding what gravity to put it into bottles before fermentation stops completely.

Hankhill11 said:

Hi Brandon. If you went right from fermentation/clearing into bottling, theoretically you let it ferment out all the way? That would mean no more sugar for bottle carbing. I can't say your experience, but if you did not add a little sugar into your bottling bucket or use carb drops, you probably will get no carbonation no matter how long you wait. If you did add a little sugar, i have had carb take up to 3 weeks or a little more. If you had any specific gravity info from start to finish it might help tell a story.

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I was lazy this round and didn't grab the OG or FG. And I did not add any more sugar before bottling, I was following the recipe exact for the first time. I assumed the 10lbs from the start would be enough! But I was also unaware this made a still cider. Not at all disappointed with the results because it tastes great.

I will be attempting to time it as earlier posts suggest to try and get some carbs. I'll also be adding some cinnamon sticks this round.

Paps said:

Just an FYI........
You don't need to stir/dissolve the sugar.
You can be a lazy arse like me and just pour it in.
I usually have probably a 2 inch layer of sugar at the bottom of the fermentor.
Scientifically i can't say if it's really better to dissolve the sugar or not.
All of it at the bottom "might" shield the yeast from sugar shock vs having it all in solution from the get go ( i have no evidence to back up this claim, it's just a hunch )
My reasoning as to not dissolving comes from time saving/pure laziness.
I like to keep things simple.
I do make little changes every now and then. But usually don't tell about those changes unless asked. (for example. I now use a pretty insane amount of yeast nutrient at the start of fermentation. 5 spoonfulls)
But after x amount of time, you cannot edit posts (as in the 1rst one to express any changes to the procedure) but i guess those interested enough read the whole thread and pick up on the info that way.

Anywho.....
brew on:rockin:

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Now I feel silly for spending a ridiculous amount of time and effort trying to stir it all in lol. Save me time on batches 3+.

Also fermentation seemed to take awhile for any activity (2.5 days no sign) so I made a starter from a pack of yeast I had expiring next month and split it between the two batches.

By the time I came back home from work it was already working wonders.

Got to wonder if it was my lack of patience or if properly rehydrated yeast was the key for this. (plus it is at the lowest end of temp)

And ya I added a good 3 spoons nutrient to each lol. Less stress the best I think right?

I have found if you dont mix in the sugar it just delays the start of visible fermenation. I have done it both ways and they both work, sugar laying at the bottom just takes longer for the yeast to kick into gear. Properly rehydrated yeast definatly help speed up the process as does some nutrient up front and down the road a little.

After watching ec1118 chew through lemon juice without an issue (skeeter pee), pappys is a cake walk.

S223Lynn said:

Should I worry about putting a blowoff tube on if I am using a 5 gallon bucket? http://www.domesticchore.com

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Cider doesn't foam anywhere nearly as much as beer does.
HOWEVER, i use a 6.5 gallon glass fermentor or ale pales (which i think are 7 gallon capacity) when i make this.
If your fermentor at maximum holds only 5 gallons, you need to scale the recipe down to 4 gallons + 8 LBS of sugar. Otherwise, your fermentor will overflow before you even get the yeast into it.

I usually make sparkling cider with either no added sugar or just a little, and white wine yeast.

About 3 weeks ago right before I went out of town, I had an open almost-full jug of apple juice, so I dissolved a pound of sugar in it and pitched half a packet of Premier Cuvee. A few days ago, I shook it up good (to stir up all the sediment) and poured it into a 3 gallon carboy with another 2 pounds of sugar, 2 heaping teaspoons of yeast nutrient, and enough apple juice to fill it to the top. It's bubbling away.

So, approximately 1 pound of sugar per gallon, and Premier Cuvee yeast with nutrient. Will that ferment completely dry, or have a little sweetness left to it? Assuming it goes totally dry (Premier Cuvee is a beast) should I prime the bottles with sugar to make it fizzy or drink it still?

If it ferments completely dry,
yes you will need to add a sugar source to get carbonation.
You COULD use table sugar to do this.
You COULD ALSO add more juice.
You COULD EVEN add frozen juice concentrate for your sugar source.
Taste it before bottling. You may like it dry/still and just drink it that way.
The choice is really up to you.
Just make sure you follow guidelines for priming sugar to not make bottle bombs.

Hey guys I started a batch 3/16/17, getting super excited about the eventual product. My blow off is still going strong so I know I am not close to ready quite yet. I had a few questions for those more experienced then I. I wanted to do the cinnamon since everyone raved about it but I also saw vanilla and oak chips added to a few batches.

I have my current in a 6g glass carboy and would rather not rack to a secondary if not needed (I am lazy like pappy), if I wait to add the cinnamon until the fermentation stops (via SG readings) would I be ok? (Let the sit until they sink?) and would adding pure vanilla extract also be cool with the cinnamon? I am guessing not the 16oz Pappy uses but a more subtle addition.

Also a have seen a few people trial bottle carbing but none have posted updates so.....??? I am fine with it still, i have no keg equipment to force carb (although i do own a broken kegarator) but the SO likes bubbles.

Also for the jackers, you said to flavor post jack to you just add in small amounts and taste as you to dial it in or do you have some suggestions on how to go about post-jack flavoring? (always could use something to knock the farm boys over with)

BufferNuggets said:

If I wait to add the cinnamon until the fermentation stops (via SG readings) would I be ok?

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Yes.

BufferNuggets said:

(Let them sit until they sink?)

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Yes.

BufferNuggets said:

and would adding pure vanilla extract also be cool with the cinnamon?

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Yes.
I have mixed the vanilla with the cinnamon version 50/50 before and it's great. I however do not personally suggest using oak chips with the cinnamon. I could be wrong but i don't think that those two flavors would be complimentary to each other and (for lack of a better term) fight each other on your pallete. Oak by itself is great and would also blend well with the vanilla.

If you have 5 one gallon fermentors perhaps you could do a variety of finishing techniques to see which version YOU like the most.
TBH i'm kinda suprised nobody has dry hopped this yet with Citra hops.

I Don't recommend it either. Just tried cinnamon and oak in one batch. Not a good combo. Not at all.
Funny I'm reading this now!
That's why we experiment and why I love this forum!!!

Paps.
Just bought some hops plants. Nugget and Bianca. Have you used either. Just starting to learn about hops...

globell said:

Paps.
hops plants. Nugget and Bianca. Have you used either....

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I've not yet used those two hop variety.
I bought a bunch of hops by the LB and probably won't get any more until harvest this fall. Went a little overboard (severe understatement) and bought 12 LBS of different types. But i selected a lot of "unpopular" hops so it only ran me $100 including shipping. Discovered that i really like the "Pilgrim" hop and at $5 a LB......i'll definately be buying more of it.

I was actually wondering how this would taste with some of the sugar replaced with DME and a bit of hops. Anyone ever give it a go?

globell did you try oak and vanilla? Also, how much oak chips did you use?

I DO have 1 x 1g carboy so I could toss some off to the side in that and work with something a bit more adventurous.

I talked to a lot of people about bottle carbing this and we all worked out that the only way to to this is to wait till your SG is down to around 1.020 or so and try tossing it into bottles then. Allowing it to HOPEFULLY finish the rest in the bottle. However, with such variability in final SG and you would have to have 2-3 test bottles to make sure you do not bomb and pasteurize when suitable carb is reached and not final SG since the still could go much lower. We talked about doing it at a lower SG (1.010 or so) but the chance of getting a lot of still bottles was way higher if your expecting 0.990 to 1.000 fSG

Haven't tried Oak and Vanilla. I actually tried JAck Daniels whiskey barrel chips (used before and great). I soak them in rum before adding to the secondary for a little extra something something. Something for the future maybe!

Just checked my 2 batches gravity and coming down nice and good.

At 1.050 and 1.054 currently so probably another week and a half before they are ready to be out in secondary (shooting for 1.02 that i think was mentioned by paps as a good reading for it to finish)

And damn, was not expecting the samples to taste that good. No burn, hot "hotness" just rather sweet cider taste. Can't wait for it to be in secondary and then bottles.

Also, would the cloudiness from the suspended sugars and yeast cause the hydrosample to read high or fine?

A hydrometer is designed to read fluids with varying densities.
Patience is your ally in homebrewing.

Paps you magnificent B@@@@, this stuff is fantastic! I snuck some out of the carboy on day 29, SG is down to 1.028 but it is still bubbling away. I added a bit of yeast nutrient/energizer to help those little guys finish strong on the last leg. I was surprised by how smooth it was. I read a lot of people saying it was 'hot' but mine was already nice and calm. Although I have been keeping it ~60F for almost the whole time so maybe the much slower fermentation is helping?

BufferNuggets said:

~60F for almost the whole time so

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Yup.
Cool and slow is the way to go.

Tried one batch with sunrype juice and not fresh press. Tasted good but acidic. More so than I'm used to. Any pointers/help?

globell said:

Tried one batch with sunrype juice and not fresh press. Tasted good but acidic. More so than I'm used to. Any pointers/help?

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Try using 71B or Côte des Blanc yeast. Or adding a little sugar syrup when you drink it.

globell said:

Tried one batch with sunrype juice and not fresh press. Tasted good but acidic. More so than I'm used to. Any pointers/help?

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Malolactic fermentation........try it.
It should smooth out that acidicy.
Also....ditch that namebrand in favor of Motts or Tree Top.

Thanks!!

After a month or so of a steady 1 bubble per second, my batch has stopped bubbling and if I use my imagination a little, it's starting to clear. Think I'll move it from the cold basement to a warmer room for a week, then take a hydrometer reading. It might be about finished.

So thinking either my fementation is done (less likely) or stalled on both by batches.

One is at 1.050 and has been there for a week while the other is 1.038 after 6 weeks in primary for both.

Both had 9 lbs of sugar added to juice starting at 1.050 juice, so should still have some room left for the yeast to drop the gravity.

Would pitching more yeast and some nutrient/energizer into each batch do any good at this point to lower the gravity and raise the abv up?

Well, if you did twin batches they should have around the same SG and both should drop to around the same SG if you used the same yeast in both. So if one dropped and the other did not it is safe to assume the first batch stalled. You would need to re-pitch and probably use something to help it since the yeast didn't manage on their own the first time. Maybe just making a slurry to get your count up wouldn't hurt either. As for the second one, I am not sure what you started at but 1.038 is not very low...mine were at 1.020 after 8 weeks and they are still going. So unless you are using yeast who can not tolerate the ABV anymore it may also have stalled.

Mine is clear now. Not crystal clear, but clear. I'm going to rack it to a new carboy for a week with gelatin to polish it, and start a batch of Skeeter Pee on the yeast cake.

Using ec-118. Realized it had gotten too cold in the room for awhile and the yeast had gone dormant, and when the temp had risen back up it never reactivated.

Made a yeast starter with 2 dry packs, apple juice, DME and let it grow for a day and a bit. Put 3/4 in the one that stalled and a quarter into the other batch. Both are now chugging away and I taped the rooms thermostat so no one tries to be helpfull and turn it off.

Sounds like a solid plan TGFV, let us know what your FG come out to. Mine is still bubbling away so i still can not toss in my cinnamon or anything...

Down to 1.040 and 1.030 so looks like it is doing it's job.

Hoping it brings it down to .020 in the next week or two, if not I'll Rerack and pitch even more yeast.

Finally hit 1.035 and the other stayed at .030...

Went through my calculations and did realize I underguessed my SG by a decent bit. (Sitting at 16 and 15% as it is with the gravity still that high).

I honestly don't think this is going to get any lower, so may just try spicing it and doing different flavours to get around the sweetness, which isnt all too bad surprisingly.

Bottled my first batch ever 1-week ago and it's already gone! But, I gave a lot out to friends and family and jacked 3 L of it.

Anyway, FANTASTIC stuff, Paps. The second batch is going now. I'm going to have to keep this in rotation as it's already in high demand!