Northern Brewer/Midwest Supplies

Ok - I was hesitant to ask this question, but it has started to come up several times in the Midwest (CC fraud) post.

First - As far as I know, Northern Brewer has been above reproach in their customer service and what they provide to the homebrewing community.

I have shopped through NB (to the tune of about $1000 per year) and have had absolutely GREAT service from them. Check posts on here and you will here about tremendous customer service. I have only positive things to say about NB from my experience, and from what I have read from others.....

All that said - what exactly is the relationship between NB and Midwest? I know there was talk of some level of "merger." But, I also know it was not "technically" a merger...... I have order 2-3 times from MW and was thoroughly unimpressed with there service and length of delivery. I don't think I was a victim of the recent fraud through MW..... but, still a little concerned.

I guess what I am wondering is - how can NB seem to be such an upstanding company with such great service, and MW make such horrible customer service decisions if they are "linked" in some way.

Ultimately, what I would love to hear from someone in the "know" is - "Northern Brewer is in NO WAY associated with MW - and you can rest assured that this would not happen by shopping through us - or, god forbid, if it did - it would be handled appropriately." But, this NB/MW "relationship" has me wondering just how much they are the same company...

Again - I have absolutely ZERO negative experiences with NB, and I don't even know anyone who has had bad experiences with them. I am just hoping that this high level of service from NB continues into the future, and is not bogged down with MW.

Does anyone know what the real relationship is between the two?

Wow . . . . and a quick update - perhaps I was part of the Midwest fiasco:

Wife just asked why the credit card company would be sending us new cards........ "An unnamed company has reported a breach in their security - this does not mean your account has been used.... but your current cards are being deactivated....."

Perhaps coincidence.... perhaps the purchase from MW late spring? So - maybe I did get hacked with many of the others that did.

Maybe contact them directly and explain the situation. I would assume if their was no connection they would what to get the facts out.

From the noises I'm hearing, MW is basically using NB warehouses to deliver product. So it seems that there IS a merger and that MW is basically just taking orders for NM. More of a front-end store than a separate business entity.

Homercidal said:

From the noises I'm hearing, MW is basically using NB warehouses to deliver product. So it seems that there IS a merger and that MW is basically just taking orders for NM. More of a front-end store than a separate business entity.

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Chris from NB was able to delete my accounts from NB and Midwest. From my perspective, they are one in the same. Just two different front end web stores.

For the people who were at NHC in Philly, everything was Northern Brewer/Midwest. The room keys where split 1/2 and 1/2. All the banners that had Northern Brewer also had Midwest on them.

They have the same "delete" function if you want to stop the spam, so I would guess they are somehow linked. Also in another post, someone stated both companies are now listed as LLC's in Delaware.

lewybrewing said:

Also in another post, someone stated both companies are now listed as LLC's in Delaware.

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Yes they are. However this isn't uncommon. Delaware is very friendly to corporations and used quite often in business registrations because of this fact.

The thing that is interesting is the revocation of current registrations in MN for Northern Brewer around the same time Midwest was changing their business registrations.

Braufessor said:

Wow . . . . and a quick update - perhaps I was part of the Midwest fiasco:

Wife just asked why the credit card company would be sending us new cards........ "An unnamed company has reported a breach in their security - this does not mean your account has been used.... but your current cards are being deactivated....."

Perhaps coincidence.... perhaps the purchase from MW late spring? So - maybe I did get hacked with many of the others that did.

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I just got a letter from MW about a security breach relating to credit cards: "your credit card information might have been improperly viewed including your name, address, email address, telephone number, credit card number, expiration date and security code".

Not sure why they would store all that info in the clear, but suffice it to say I had to cancel the card

That was my one and only order from MW back in May. Also not sure why it would take 4 months to notify me...

kona_dude said:

I just got a letter from MW about a security breach relating to credit cards: "your credit card information might have been improperly viewed including your name, address, email address, telephone number, credit card number, expiration date and security code".

Not sure why they would store all that info in the clear, but suffice it to say I had to cancel the card

That was my one and only order from MW back in May. Also not sure why it would take 4 months to notify me...

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I received new credit cards from my CC card company yesterday - saying they may have been compromised. I received my notification and $25 parting gift from MW today....... My purchase was March 1st. Thanks Midwest for letting me keep possibly compromised credit cards for 6 months....."As soon as we discovered the breach, we took immediate measures to resolve the situation......."

Really..... tell me more about this IMMEDIATE action....

Back to the original point of this thread - what I don't understand is how can NB have such phenomenal customer service, and midwest be so piss-poor ..... and yet be the same company. I don't want to quit using NB for some of my purchases, because they have been such a great place to order from. However, this whole Midwest deal was handled so poorly, that if they are, indeed, one in the same - I don't know how I can keep ordering from them. I know I will never order from Midwest again (including the $25 they sent me), and I will happily and enthusiastically encourage anyone that asks to order from somewhere else as well.

Braufessor said:

Back to the original point of this thread - what I don't understand is how can NB have such phenomenal customer service, and midwest be so piss-poor ..... and yet be the same company.

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I think the simple answer is that the 'merger' is relatively recent and they have only made changes to streamline online sales and maybe a few other redundancies.

I first read stuff about the companies merging earlier this year. (anybody feel like doing a search to find a thread on this forum about that? because I'm pretty sure I read about it first here) I don't have any articles or documentation at the moment, but I seem to remember that it was a completely separate investment firm that now owns both companies. So, it isn't like one of the companies bought out their competition. It is just some investors seeing a growing industry and wanting to get in on it. Then they make some changes to cut costs and don't bother with the more extensive changes that might require what they see as unnecessary investments in retraining employees to have both companies run the same way. So NB and MW are forced to work together to some extent. And NB probably doesn't have any way to address customer service issues at MW, and they may not feel a need to do anything even if they could.

Like I said I have no documentation or proof to back up that assertion. It is just my best guess of how these companies could be in the position they are in.

All I know is I can't wait for Amazon to jump in the homebrew business. I'm tired of accounts getting hacked, shipping prices going up, delivery delays (Brewmasters Wearhouse, anyone?) and all the other nonsense sweeping the industry.

If I had a handy LHBS, I'd go that route. But since I'm stuck with on-line, I'm just waiting for better options.

If Amazon jumped into the ring...that would be the end of several suppliers. Next day yeast anyone?

Never really had much of an issue ordering and receiving from MW... but I ordered a dual keg system a couple of tuesday's ago (Aug 27). I did get an email that they were having trouble fulfilling my order, I got the shipping notification this A.M and should be here friday. It sucks its taken this long to get here. Not a real big deal...

I'll roll the dice, PM me that $25 coupon code! I ordered once from midwest when I started, and they still keep sending me coupon codes for 20% off an order. I haven't needed anything, but I'm thinking about a starter kit for my brother.

I also ordered mine the day after you and it still has yet to ship, sucks

It's very possible both companies are owned by the same holding company and the original management & corporate structures left in place.

joyceman said:

It's very possible both companies are owned by the same holding company and the original management & corporate structures left in place.

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Ive been thru this type of corporate merger. It happened all the time. Im sure they will share some resources, and some positions are likely to be lost due to redundancy. That's unfortunate. What I wonder about is who's company culture wins out.

Culture is driven top down from the executives. This latest message comes from the president of MW. Ive never been a customer of MW. However, from my perspective, they have really screwed the pooch on the handling of this incident.

If this management team is also going to be running NB then I have real concerns. If NB is going to be run by its own independent management team then I'm less concerned but still a bit leery. I'll be watching others reviews of NB very closely over the next few months.

This has been interesting to watch. I started brewing a little over 2 years ago as a customer of Northern Brewer. I still feel they have the best ingredients kits at a low price. But, I have progressed to formulating my own recipes. I have not ordered from NB for a while now and since they no longer offer flat rate shipping they rarely compete price shipped.

It is also interesting that Midwest had good reviews on customer service and shipping until this merger took place. Something is seriously amiss at Midwest beyond their CC security breach.

I will not be ordering from either for a while until all this settles out.

tennesseean_87 said:

I'll roll the dice, PM me that $25 coupon code! I ordered once from midwest when I started, and they still keep sending me coupon codes for 20% off an order. I haven't needed anything, but I'm thinking about a starter kit for my brother.

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The only one that *I* know of that works is the zymurgy10 ( 10% off). I just lucked up and ordered on the free shipping day they had last week.

Braufessor said:

I received new credit cards from my CC card company yesterday - saying they may have been compromised. I received my notification and $25 parting gift from MW today....... My purchase was March 1st. Thanks Midwest for letting me keep possibly compromised credit cards for 6 months....."As soon as we discovered the breach, we took immediate measures to resolve the situation......." l.

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Without more info, we don't know when or how the CC#'s were compromised. Was it a man in the middle hack where the data was copied and forwarded as used? or was it a hack into the database and just grabbed everyone who was there. My point is that it may not have been as long as 6 months - assuming a hack of the database. This opens up all sort of questions about their IT security.

HOWEVER from what I've read, MW has not done the best on informing how the attack occured, and what they've done to fix it. Definately not good for their brand.

I dont know why I decided to order something else from midwest... I ordered last friday and my order STILL hasn't shipped. This is ridiculous.

FalconsBrew said:

I dont know why I decided to order something else from midwest... I ordered last friday and my order STILL hasn't shipped. This is ridiculous.

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Ordered on Wednesday...shipped Thursday. I'd email. There was a delay on crystal 40 but I guess they cleared it up.

it has now been almost 7 days, haven't heard anything. I ordered an oxygenator from them.. Guess i'll email them just like I had to do with my keg order two weeks ago. I will not be buying from them again.

Just got the new Midwest catalog and noticed yet another example of sharing/borrowing between them and Northern Brewer. The layout of the first few pages of the catalog is distinctly reminiscent of NB's catalogs. In my opinion, NB has long held the upper hand in terms of the brewing porn value of their catalogs. I guess their marketing/graphic design team must be either in charge of Midwest's catalogs, or at the very least, teaching Midwest a few things about making me want to spend time perusing their products.

Also, I'd bet this new Ferocious IPA is probably exactly the same recipe as the Northern Brewer Pro Series Surly Furious IPA.

I know that this is an old thread but came across it while searching the forums. I ordered some items from Midwest and taking a long time for them to ship. When I finally called them to inquire why it was taking 4 days to ship, I was told that ONE item in the order was on backorder and was holding the whole shipment off. I asked them why they had not emailed me or attempted to reach out to me to inform me of the hold up, I was just told that they were just getting a new system in place to avoid something like this from happening.

I'm not sure what's going on over there, but that wasn't the first time. I ordered another item from them on Amazon (Midwest was seller) 6-7 months ago and after emailing them through Amazon for weeks I never received a reply from them. I finally contacted Amazon and had them cancel the order on my behalf. I never had an issue with them before but I don't think I am going to shop with them again especially since my Credit Card info was stolen from their order site a few months back. I always try and give people the benefit of doubt and give them a second chance, but this is too much.

dmcman73 said:

I know that this is an old thread but came across it while searching the forums. I ordered some items from Midwest and taking a long time for them to ship. When I finally called them to inquire why it was taking 4 days to ship, I was told that ONE item in the order was on backorder and was holding the whole shipment off. I asked them why they had not emailed me or attempted to reach out to me to inform me of the hold up, I was just told that they were just getting a new system in place to avoid something like this from happening.

I'm not sure what's going on over there, but that wasn't the first time. I ordered another item from them on Amazon (Midwest was seller) 6-7 months ago and after emailing them through Amazon for weeks I never received a reply from them. I finally contacted Amazon and had them cancel the order on my behalf. I never had an issue with them before but I don't think I am going to shop with them again especially since my Credit Card info was stolen from their order site a few months back. I always try and give people the benefit of doubt and give them a second chance, but this is too much.

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For what its worth, I ordered some items from Northern Brewer the other day and the order was filled and shipped to me within 3 days...

I have used Midwest Supplies as my primary source of ingredients (and, for that matter, my original kit) since I started 6 years ago. I have always had nothing but positive experiences with MW. On the few occasions when something has been wrong, it has been immediately rectified by them, at their expense including shipping.
As far as a credit card fraud situation.....this is a possiblity any merchant who uses them faces, and no matter how it happened or how it all plays out, it's never good for the merchant. We had a giant CC fraud in this area in the Spring with a big supermarket chain (Schnuck's). Thousands of people had their cards compromised and still more outright lost money on their debit cards. I believe there are still lawsuits pending.
And, yes, there was a certain delay in this situation, too, but this is the reality of contemporary credit / debit card systems.

My other observation is that I think there was too much heat expended in this thread on too little information. Certainly nothing has been written here that would impair my confidence in MW, and I will continue to order from them.