Law
- Thread starter teddy_one
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
MindenMan
Well-Known Member
All the ingredients are "food grade", meaning the individual parts could be used to create things other than beer.
Not at all. You can sell any part of a beer kit, even after mixing it up, right until you put the yeast in. As soon as you put the yeast in, even if the yeast hasn't had any time to make alcohol, it's considered beer and you can't sell it.
Before yeast it put in = Good
After yeast is put in = Bad
roastquake
Well-Known Member
I've heard of folks getting around it this way: at a renaissance fair these folks where selling "souvenir mugs"... filled with homemade mead 
I've heard of folks getting around it this way: at a renaissance fair these folks where selling "souvenir mugs"... filled with homemade mead
They aren't getting around anything, they are just selling booze without a permit and nobody is paying attention.
roastquake
Well-Known Member
Haha, good point
fuzzy2133
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the realm of things that are OK to buy/make/own and illegal when you are caught in the act of violating a law.
You can buy/make/own a distillation still however when you start it up and make whiskey you are now performing a illegal act.
You would probably get shut down for doing something wrong under some law made back in the 1800's...
You can buy/make/own a distillation still however when you start it up and make whiskey you are now performing a illegal act.
Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?
You would probably get shut down for doing something wrong under some law made back in the 1800's...
Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?
Sure, why not? Although I think the college kids want there beer a little faster.
Malt extract is basically dehydrated wort. My LHBS is a couple blocks from UW Madison and a private high school.
Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?
Sure you could but the first place to look would be your local laws as federally there should be no issue because you are not selling an alcoholic beverage
Not trying to sound overly harsh but I really think you need to consult the actual law. I bet there is a lawyer or three here but I doubt any of them will do much more than cite the law for you. Giving you counsel, seeking counsel online when you're unsure who you're speaking to, and trying to skirt the system usually ends badly.
Selling a starter wort, if that is what you mean, seems like you are also risking infection. It will only take one ahole college kid to fail at making actual beer before you start to see issues.
OTOH, I am constantly considering outcomes and they're rarely the good ones so maybe you see brighter rainbows than me.
Selling a starter wort, if that is what you mean, seems like you are also risking infection. It will only take one ahole college kid to fail at making actual beer before you start to see issues.
OTOH, I am constantly considering outcomes and they're rarely the good ones so maybe you see brighter rainbows than me.
Correct.
Or was the question really, "Do you have to be of legal age (drinking age in your state) to sell homebrewing kits?"
Just like 20 year old grocery store clerks in my state can't ring up alcohol sales, but the 15 year old bagger can put it in a bag. What sense does that make?
Do you have to be of legal age to sell the components of beer? As earlier posts pointed out, I think not. Of course I am not a lawyer.
Just like 20 year old grocery store clerks in my state can't ring up alcohol sales, but the 15 year old bagger can put it in a bag. What sense does that make?
Do you have to be of legal age to sell the components of beer? As earlier posts pointed out, I think not. Of course I am not a lawyer.
I am. You guys are confusing the normal ingredients of beer, which are relatively ordinary food items (well maybe not hops) with alcohol. You can make hard cider out of a bottle of apple juice and a pack of raisins. You can buy a bag of sugar and some bread yeast and make booze. Nobody requires people to be of a legal age to sell these products, same reason why nobody cares how old you are when buying malted barley, hops, and yeast.
The homebrew shops in my area all say that you must be at least 21 to shop there. I'm guessing the only reason they would place this requirement on shoppers is that they are convinced that the state law required them to limit sales to people who are of age. I have no idea if they are right.
If you opened a store selling premade wort and yeast right next to a college campus and marketed to the students in a manner that made it clear you were a way for underage people to get alcohol, you definitely would need to worry about enterprising plaintiffs' lawyers. The second that someone underage buys from you, makes the beer, and then has an accident, you will be getting sued. I have no idea whether you would win, but you would spend a ton of money on lawyers along the way.
If you opened a store selling premade wort and yeast right next to a college campus and marketed to the students in a manner that made it clear you were a way for underage people to get alcohol, you definitely would need to worry about enterprising plaintiffs' lawyers. The second that someone underage buys from you, makes the beer, and then has an accident, you will be getting sued. I have no idea whether you would win, but you would spend a ton of money on lawyers along the way.
Around me they care. They at least say they won't sell the stuff to people who are under 21.
You can certainly claim that the ingredients are all just "ordinary food items," but the law enforcement folks will not care. This reminds me of head shops that sell "incense" that they make clear "is not for human consumption." The FDA, DEA, and nearly every state law enforcement agency considers these drugs. You will have about as much good trying to convince them that the products sold by a store that markets itself as a homebrew store are just "ordinary food items."
you're confusing finished products with ingredients . Better to think of it like this: is it illegal to buy potting soil? No. It can be used to grow pot (or "incense"). Is it illegal to sell pot? Yes (well in most places anyway).
Homebrew shops probably don't want to sell to people under 21 just because they don't want to bother with any hassles or hire an attorney to figure out whether its legal or not. If I were a shop owner, I probably wouldn't want some 15 year old kids in there buying stuff, just because it has a bad appearance.
Homebrew shops probably don't want to sell to people under 21 just because they don't want to bother with any hassles or hire an attorney to figure out whether its legal or not. If I were a shop owner, I probably wouldn't want some 15 year old kids in there buying stuff, just because it has a bad appearance.
TheSmithsEra
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2012
- Messages
- 519
- Reaction score
- 50
LOL the OP is going to sell this starter kit of his to some 16 year old punks. 2 Months later the police are going to roll him because one of the punks went home drunk, his parents busted him and he ratted his friend out and the cops go to his house and find the homebrew set up leading them back to him
The guys defense is going to be that HBT said it was ok lol
The guys defense is going to be that HBT said it was ok lol
If OP sells his motorcycle to a 16 year old and the 16 yo wrecks it and dies, is OP liable? I'm no lawyer, but I'd say no.
TheSmithsEra
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2012
- Messages
- 519
- Reaction score
- 50
without a license, yes. i'm no lawyer, oh wait...no i'm not
Thank you for taking the time to actually find the federal definition of beer. I hate it when people say that wort is instantly turned into beer as soon as the yeast hit it... come on we're not JesusTTB Glossary said:
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Of course laws vary from state to state, but generally speaking, absolutely not. There is no age restrictions on buying grain, malt extract, yeast, etc. These all of have perfectly legitimate, non-alcohol-related uses. Hell, I bought my first beer kit when I was 19. It only becomes illegal once you start fermenting it.
Thank you for taking the time to actually find the federal definition of beer. I hate it when people say that wort is instantly turned into beer as soon as the yeast hit it... come on we're not Jesus
No, but who is going to continually monitor their inoculated wort to check for legality. By the time the wort is confiscated and analyzed by a licensed laboratory, the ABV will be into beer territory.
It's easier and still practical to consider anything inoculated with yeast as being a fermented beverage for the sake of the law.
And for the purpose of this discussion I doubt you could sell a pitched wort to a minor, or to someone who lives where alcohol is not permitted, and claim innocence.
thisisbeer
Well-Known Member
We had a 19-20 year old kid that worked at the LHBS selling all the supplies there.
NervousDad
BFM
So what would happen if the wort spontaneously fermented from wild yeast.
That would depend on the strain of wild yeast. Either way, don't dump it. Let it ferment and see how it turns out. I might be good.
But you could argue that at the time you were not in possession of beer and can't be charged for that unless they prove that when you were caught it was above 0.5% (inocent until proven guilty). But the cops would not be trying to charge you with that, they would be charging you with the illegal production of a fermented beverage which you would have no defence agaist as by the time it is tested it would be beer proving your were making beer.
I don't think that's what he meant
Rhumbline
Well-Known Member
The only thing I'll add to this is "You may be right, but it might still cost you $40,000 to prove it."
How important is being right?
How important is being right?
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
"The homebrew shops in my area all say that you must be at least 21 to shop there. I'm guessing the only reason they would place this requirement on shoppers is that they are convinced that the state law required them to limit sales to people who are of age."
Is your LHBS also selling bottled beer?
Is your LHBS also selling bottled beer?
Hamaki
Well-Known Member
My LHBS has beer on tap and do not serve any food. I think that California generally considers that a bar, must be 21 to enter. They don't check IDs, though. First several visits with my young looking 21 YO son just to buy supplies I didn't think about it but one day they were busy so son & I had a beer while waiting. Still no ID check. Seemed kind of casual.
