Dead Yeast?

I was planning on brewing today but it looks like that wont be the case anymore. I made a starter with a Wyeast Weihenstephan Weizen 3068 smack pack yesterday morning. I used 1 quart of whater and 1/2 cup of wheat DME. It's been pretty hot lately so it's pretty hard to get the temperature down, but I eventually managed to get wort down to 80 F and so I pitched the yeast into my starter (yeast was about 80 F as well). I didn't think this would cause any problems. However, there was no activity all day yesterday and there has not been any activity as of today either. The temperatures of the starter have run between 75- 85 F. Does it sound like I did something completely wrong?

That temp should be OK. Did the smack pack swell up after you activated it?

Remember yeast can take up to 72 hours to take off....long lag times happen, to no ill effect. And don't forget airlock activity also isn't an accurate gauge of fermentation....If you are in a bucket and going by that then that's not a good gauge...It's different obviously if you are in a carboy, because you can see the krauzen starting to grow...

There's too many factors that can make a cheap a$$ piece of plastic not burble...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=609864&postcount=7

If you are in a bucket though, if you press down on the lid and get a big "burble" in the airlock, then you have co2 and therefore fermentation is happenning.

That temp should be OK. Did the smack pack swell up after you activated it?

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Yes it did. I burst the inner pouch on late Friday and by early Sunday it looked like it was about to explode. I did notice right now that the airlock is bubbling every 15 to 20 seconds, but I'm not sure if it's because I mixed the wort/yeast inside after moving the starter a little. Do I just have to have patience? I really thought that the starter would go off very quickly and I would see a noticeable thick layer of krausen. However, I will be posponing my brewing day untill I see the starter do it's thing, if it ever does... I don't want to pitch it in my 5 gallon brew if I'm not sure the Yeast is viable.

bluedragoon85 said:

Yes it did. I burst the inner pouch on late Friday and by early Sunday it looked like it was about to explode. I did notice right now that the airlock is bubbling every 15 to 20 seconds, but I'm not sure if it's because I mixed the wort/yeast inside after moving the starter a little. Do I just have to have patience? I really thought that the starter would go off very quickly and I would see a noticeable thick layer of krausen.

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Rarely do I see any krausen on a starter- but usually about 24 hours later or so, I notice a nice think layer of yeast on the bottom so it's done its job. Give it a swirl to keep the yeast in suspension, and it'll be fine. Just go ahead and pitch it in when your wort is ready- it'll go!

If you are in a bucket though, if you press down on the lid and get a big "burble" in the airlock, then you have co2 and therefore fermentation is happening.

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I used to use plastic buckets, but now I use better bottles. However, right now I'm just dealing with a 1 qt. starter. I see no Krausen, and I'm barely seen some bubbling, but I'm no yet sure if that is do to me shaking it a little while ago.

bluedragoon85 said:

Yes it did. I burst the inner pouch on late Friday and by early Sunday it looked like it was about to explode. I did notice right now that the airlock is bubbling every 15 to 20 seconds, but I'm not sure if it's because I mixed the wort/yeast inside after moving the starter a little. Do I just have to have patience? I really thought that the starter would go off very quickly and I would see a noticeable thick layer of krausen. However, I will be posponing my brewing day untill I see the starter do it's thing, if it ever does... I don't want to pitch it in my 5 gallon brew if I'm not sure the Yeast is viable.

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If you got regular bubbling in the airlock, it's venting CO2, if you made the starter yesterday. Some starters don't even krauzen, or they krauzen quickly then fall....Starters do the same funky a$$ crap as beers in fermenters, act unpredictably.

I've had some on stirplates that didn't take off until I shut the plate off....

Rarely do I see any krausen on a starter- but usually about 24 hours later or so, I notice a nice think layer of yeast on the bottom so it's done its job. Give it a swirl to keep the yeast in suspension, and it'll be fine. Just go ahead and pitch it in when your wort is ready- it'll go!

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O ok. This is the first time I've ever used liquid yeast and done a starter so it's a bit confusing. It's hard to tell when it's ready. Haven't seen much bubbling or much of anything at all, but I will try and trust that it will work. Just don't want to ruin a perfectly good batch of brew.

bluedragoon85 said:

O ok. This is the first time I've ever used liquid yeast and done a starter so it's a bit confusing. It's hard to tell when it's ready. Haven't seen much bubbling or much of anything at all, but I will try and trust that it will work. Just don't want to ruin a perfectly good batch of brew.

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Breath......Yeasts know how to do their job better than we do!

So, what do you all think? should I brew tonight? or should I wait a day or two before doing so?

It's up to you. I'd go ahead and brew and pitch it. If you want to wait, though, no harm will come to it. It'll be fine either way.

The yeast was certainly viable when it swelled the pack, so unless the wort was a heckuva lot hotter than 80˚ (was it?) you're fine. A layer of sediment on the bottom of your starter jar or a bit of scum around the waterline indicates that it's done its thing. Remember, making a starter is like massively overpitching a beer, so don't be surprised if it does its thing in a hurry and shuts off. Could happen with zero airlock activity if starter jar isn't sealed properly.

(I don't use an airlock on starters, just loose tinfoil over the top to allow oxygen transfer. I just assume they worked, and have never been wrong.)

It's up to you...there might be some lag if you brewed today, but at the same time a lot could be happening in the starter while you are spending the next 5-6 hours brewing and cooling, you may luck out and pitch at high krauzen.

Like Kai, said, the yeast was viable when you smacked the pack....making a starter increases the amount of yeasties you have on hand....So whether the yeast are have been fruitul and multiplied, or not yet, you still are pitching living cells....so if you got the bug to brew today, then go for it.

The yeast was certainly viable when it swelled the pack, so unless the wort was a heckuva lot hotter than 80˚ (was it?) you're fine. A layer of sediment on the bottom of your starter jar or a bit of scum around the waterline indicates that it's done its thing. Remember, making a starter is like massively overpitching a beer, so don't be surprised if it does its thing in a hurry and shuts off. Could happen with zero airlock activity if starter jar isn't sealed properly.

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I cooled the wort in the sink with cool water. I had the thermometer checking the temp and it was about 82 F before I took the thermometer out. I let the wort cool a little longer (5 min more) so I'm guessing it dropped to 80 since it was only 2 degrees from it. The smack pack was about 80 F as well, so I doubt I shocked it. I don't see any ring of left over krausen or anything, but it has started to bubble, just a little, but then a lot when I shake it. So now I'm guessing it's alive because it's letting of C02

I'd bet that it did its thing while you were sleeping, or glancing the other way, or something. CO2 released on shaking is residual carbon dioxide in suspension, which you usually get post-fermentation (although I suppose in very early stages of fermentation it could occur similarly). Either way, if you brew now, you'll be fine, as it means the yeast have reproduced and are finished or just starting the fermentation phase.

It seems fermentation has been starting today, but slowly... it sure is a relief; I was not expecting such a big lag... There is no Krausen or crazy fermentation, but there definitely is C02 escaping the airlock... Also, I can see tiny bubbles reaching the surface of the wort... I'm still thinking if I should brew today or not though...