generic oxy-clean question

I've been using oxy-clean to clean my equipment since beginning brewing. I switched to a generic brand, Truly Oxy Active (from Zellers) not because of price but because it didn't contain the blue detergent crystals. I liked the idea of oxy-clean because it has been said that it just uses oxygen to clean so it won't harm your equipment at all, leave it to soak all night, all week if need be, by the way, don't breath in the fumes or touch it with your naked skin, if you drink it you're a gonner.

So, I've noticed that my carboy has some frosting on the inside that roughly corresponds to the area in contact with liquid when the carboy is on its side. The carboy is second hand; I got it off craigslist. I would have assumed that the previous owner had left bleach in it for a while to get those results if it were not for the fact that when cleaning bottles, I unexpectedly had to leave them in oxy-clean for a week. When I came back the bottles had little bumps on the outside and inside as if they had been sprinkled with salt. I scrubbed the outside of a couple of the bottles for a while to see if I could get rid of these bumps, nothing seemed to happen. Also, I'm not the most observant person, but the frosting is very obvious and I would be mildly surprised if it were there before and I hadn't noticed it.

I've been suffering from extra phenolics with every beer I've fermented in this carboy. After overhauling my process, someone on a forum suggested that it might be the carboy. I was thinking of sterilizing it in the oven when I discovered the frosting and wondered if it had, indeed, been there the whole time housing billions of wild yeasts eager to get their teeth into my beer.

There isn't an ingredient list on the packaging but in the Caution it does say "contains sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate".

Can oxyclean hurt glass? Do generic oxy clean brands chuck a bit of chlorine in their product for good luck.

Thanks for the help

ive had the same problem soaking bottles in oxyclean. it leaves this layer of white stuff inside and outside the bottles. i soaked them in starsan overnight and got rid of it.

A few thoughts here...first, if you were using Oxi with blue crystals you were using the wrong Oxi. You should be using Oxi-Free.

You should also be giving everything a good rinse after dumping the cleaning solution. I have left oxi solution in carboys for weeks at a time due to laziness and have never had any issues with it.

This has been discussed in several threads.
IIRC oxiclean residue is more of a problem if you have hard water.
The residue can be dissolved with diluted white vinegar or StarSan.

Often Oxy-products, generic or otherwise, can leave a white "scale" behind. White precipitates. They are a think either just evaporated oxy, or some combination of some brewer's water chemistry and the product. It is really very common.

The best cure for it is simply using a weak acid rinse....Those of us who sanitize with starsan already have a weak acid the gets rid of the scale, but even vinegar or lemon juice dilluted in water will work just as well.

Usually after soaking my bottles with oxy and rinsing them with my jet bottle washer, I have a sink ready with some starsan (if I have it, lemon juice) in water, and just dunk the bottles in.

Revvy said:

Often Oxy-products, generic or otherwise, can leave a white "scale" behind. White precipitates. They are a think either just evaporated oxy, or some combination of some brewer's water chemistry and the product. It is really very common.

The best cure for it is simply using a weak acid rinse....Those of us who sanitize with starsan already have a weak acid the gets rid of the scale, but even vinegar or lemon juice dilluted in water will work just as well.

Usually after soaking my bottles with oxy and rinsing them with my jet bottle washer, I have a sink ready with some starsan (if I have it, lemon juice) in water, and just dunk the bottles in.

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Ingenious (about rinsing with an acid)! I don't let stuff soak in oxiclean for more than a few hours, but rinse the hell out of it afterwards. Using an acid rinse makes alot of sense. Thanks for the idea!

Pappers said:

Ingenious (about rinsing with an acid)! I don't let stuff soak in oxiclean for more than a few hours, but rinse the hell out of it afterwards. Using an acid rinse makes alot of sense. Thanks for the idea!

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no problem....

I on the other hand often end up not being able to get to my oxysoaking bottles for weeks sometimes...so it is a constant battle.

One thing thoes lurkers looking in....even though I rinse them with starsan on bottle cleaning day...I STILL sanitize on bottleing day....I don't count that as a sanitization step, but an acid rinsing step.

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Kilted Brewer said:

A few thoughts here...first, if you were using Oxy with blue crystals you were using the wrong Oxy. You should be using Oxy-Free.

You should also be giving everything a good rinse after dumping the cleaning solution. I have left oxy solution in carboys for weeks at a time due to laziness and have never had any issues with it.

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I've never seen Oxy-Free on sale. I was using the oxy-clean with blue crystals because all the other oxy products were sprays or wipes. That's why I switched to Truly brand Oxy-Active. What is wrong with the oxy clean with the blue crystals? Is it just the blue crystals, or is there something more sinister in that powder?

Oh, I do rinse - about 6 times. I don't have a jet washer so I pour in two to three litres and slosh it about. I also use rice as a bit of a scourer. My wife has noticed that my muscles are getting bigger. I think it's down to rinsing my carboy.

I'll try the acid wash, thanks Revvy, and have a look for that Oxy Free, otherwise I might get the dedicated brewery version. I'll also check the similar threads at the bottom of this thread.

Also, I had another look at the 'frosting' on the inside of my carboy and there is a strip of what look like scratches running vertically up the inside of the carboy as if gravel had been rubbed against the inside. Curiouser and curiouser...

Actual Oxyclean from Orange Glo has an active time of only about a couple of hours, then the solution just simply breaks down. Ultimately it is sort of like using hydrogen peroxide. Same results and much the same chemical. If I were to use Oxyclean, I would mix in the powder when I am wanting to clean it and then after about 1 hr, empty and rinse out. Then run a sanitization. I have blue sanitizing pills that I crush up when I sanitize. But that is the process I would do.

Kilted Brewer said:

A few thoughts here...first, if you were using Oxy with blue crystals you were using the wrong Oxy. You should be using Oxy-Free.

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I've been using Oxiclean Versatile (with the blue crystals) for ALL my brewery cleaning for 10 years. The crystals don't matter and don't hurt anything.

It was my understanding that the products with the blue crystals were the ones with added dyes and perfumes. If that is not so I stand corrected. Oxi-Free doesn't have those items added. Personal preference I guess. I'll stick with the free.

I think the only chemical that can react with glass is hydrofluoric acid. oxyclean and PBW can leave white rings around the water line if they sit for a long time but I dont think they can do permanent damage. The starsan bath sounds like a great idea but Id stay away from vinegar if possible.

Kilted Brewer said:

It was my understanding that the products with the blue crystals were the ones with added dyes and perfumes. If that is not so I stand corrected. Oxi-Free doesn't have those items added. Personal preference I guess. I'll stick with the free.

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I contacted the company and they explained to me that the crystals are surfactants. IMO, it's better to ask than to assume and guess! Using OxiClean Versatile on over 350 batches has proven to me that there's nothing to worry about.

Sorry to be an ass oh mighty one

Kilted Brewer said:

Sorry to be an ass oh mighty one

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back atcha!!! I just heard the "no blue crystals" thing SO often after I'd already been using ti with great results that I finally had to contact the co. to get the straight info.

I was basing it all off the comments on their own site that states:

Available in Regular and Free (scent and dye-free) varieties.

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That says to me that Regular has scents and dye. You've been brewing a while and using the regular so I'll go with it's fine to use. I'll still stick with the Free as long as it's available and the same price.

+1 on blue crystals.

Could be purely mental but they seem to work better than the generic Oxy brands. As far as fragrance it all seems to come out in the wash/rinse/sanitize cycle.

I let a blue plastic tub sit for a couple days with an oxiclean solution in it, and now I have an awful white ring that I can't get rid of. I've tried water soaking for several days; starsan & a sponge, and it's still there

Why would you not use vinegar?

k1v1116 said:

I think the only chemical that can react with glass is hydrofluoric acid. oxyclean and PBW can leave white rings around the water line if they sit for a long time but I dont think they can do permanent damage. The starsan bath sounds like a great idea but Id stay away from vinegar if possible.

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Pappers said:

Why would you not use vinegar?

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That's what I was thinking. Isn't vinegar acetic acid? I was getting all excited about cleaning my carboy - I've got loads of white vinegar but no starsan - and then I'm told not to use the stuff.

I use SUN brand. I love it... but I also have soft water. I also rinse my fermentor with Star San as a aprt of my sanitizing regimine. I simply rinse my BK with water after a 150F (love the PID) Oxi soak.

Pappers said:

Why would you not use vinegar?

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Distilled vinegar is OK.
Wine or cider vinegar could possibly have active acetobacter,
which could infect your beer and make it sour.
I can't say whether this is likely or not, just that it's possible.

I know there are different opinions out there, but I'm telling you from personal experience, Oxyclean DOES hurt glass. Now I stupidly left some Oxyclean in a carboy for a whole week (I know, I know, I had to leave town on short notice), and when I got back, the oxyclean had etched lines into my carboy! It appears to have occurred along carboy brush marks based on the patterns. The carboy can't be trusted now and its useless. I strongly recommend going to something like PBW and skipping the regular commercial Oxyclean. Just a FYI....

Discliamer. I use (and clean) only copper, HDPE and SS in my operation.

knightbeer39 said:

I know there are different opinions out there, but I'm telling you from personal experience, Oxyclean DOES hurt glass. Now I stupidly left some Oxyclean in a carboy for a whole week (I know, I know, I had to leave town on short notice), and when I got back, the oxyclean had etched lines into my carboy! It appears to have occurred along carboy brush marks based on the patterns. The carboy can't be trusted now and its useless. I strongly recommend going to something like PBW and skipping the regular commercial Oxyclean. Just a FYI....

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I have to disagree with this statement, as I regularly leave Oxi (note OXI, not OXY) for days or even weeks and never had an issue. You state that this occurs along brush marks...are you sure the metal from the brush isn't scratching your glass?

Kilted Brewer said:

I have to disagree with this statement, as I regularly leave Oxi (note OXI, not OXY) for days or even weeks and never had an issue. You state that this occurs along brush marks...are you sure the metal from the brush isn't scratching your glass?

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Or perhaps not etching, but a film, which is why you can see brush marks?

Kilted Brewer said:

I have to disagree with this statement, as I regularly leave Oxi (note OXI, not OXY) for days or even weeks and never had an issue. You state that this occurs along brush marks...are you sure the metal from the brush isn't scratching your glass?

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Positive. I've used that brush on that carboy for at least 8 years and never had anything like this happen. The bubbles from the OXIclean (sorry for the mispelling, are you a rep or something ) sort of clung to the brush marks along the interior glass wall and I'm telling you, etched it!

It is not residue, I have thoroughly examined it, scrubbed it, and asked at least two other independent observer's opinions, and we all came to the same conclusion. That glass is etched. By etched I mean thousands of tiny little dimples in the glass in linear patterns. This was the first time I had used this concentration, and length of soak, with Oxiclean. I will never do it again....

I know many people use the stuff without reported problems, but it definately caused a problem in my carboy...

knightbeer39 said:

Positive. I've used that brush on that carboy for at least 8 years and never had anything like this happen. The bubbles from the oxyclean sort of clung to the brush marks along the interior glass wall and I'm telling you, etched it!

It is not residue, I have thoroughly examined it, scrubbed it, and asked at least two other independent observer's opinions, and we all came to the same conclusion. That glass is etched. By etched I mean thousands of tiny little dimples in the glass in linear patterns. This was the first time I had used this concentration, and length of soak, with Oxyclean. I will never do it again....

I know many people use the stuff without reported problems, but it definately caused a problem in my carboy...

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Can you explain chemically how that happens? Based on my knowledge of what's in Oxiclean, it seems impossible. I'd appreciate it if you could fill me in.

Denny said:

Can you explain chemically how that happens? Based on my knowledge of what's in Oxiclean, it seems impossible. I'd appreciate it if you could fill me in.

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I honestly don't know; didn't seem possible to me either. Yet, it happened. I suppose its possible that the beer residue I had in the carboy and the oxiclean reacted??? I will say that it was a very old, antique really, 5 gallon glass carboy of aqua-blue glass. I don't know if that had something to do with it or not. I also let the brush stay in the carboy for the week and maybe that caused some sort of reaction??

I really have no logical explanation for it. (EDIT: FYI, just wanted to share my bizarre experience, I am by no means a chemist.....)

knightbeer39 said:

I honestly don't know; didn't seem possible to me either. Yet, it happened. I suppose its possible that the beer residue I had in the carboy and the oxiclean reacted???

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The same thing happened to me, hence this thread.

After a few days' soak in generic oxiclean there was a film on the inside of the bottle and on one side of the film were lots of little scratches like, as I have described previously gravel had been dragged along the glass. Just on one side though - very strange. As per a suggestion read on this forum I've been using rice as an abrasive when I shake the bottle rather than a bottle brush.

I read about the acid wash and used lemon juice, hoping that the scratches were in the film rather than in the glass itself. The scratches are still barely visible. Perhaps I have not got rid of the film, or maybe the scratches are etched in glass.

This has never happened before. I may have missed something on previous cleans but I did always inspect as closely as possible and if there was even the slightest smudge on the inside I'd wash and rinse again - I don't want no infected brews.

This was the first time I used a generic oxi rather than the brand name Oxiclean with the blue crystals. Perhaps they've put a little something extra in the powder.

However, it's not a new carboy. I bought it off kijiji. It's very old. I inspected it closely and although it was dirty and had scratches on the outside seemed well enough. Every beer I've fermented with this carboy has not been quite right. Drinkable but not as good as commercial brews and it has been maintained on the brewing fora with all-grain, even if you mess up, your beer will be better than any commercial brew.

I'm going to shell out the 33 dollars for a HDPE bucket.

Philsc said:

The same thing happened to me, hence this thread.

After a few days' soak in generic oxiclean there was a film on the inside of the bottle and on one side of the film were lots of little scratches like, as I have described previously gravel had been dragged along the glass. Just on one side though - very strange. As per a suggestion read on this forum I've been using rice as an abrasive when I shake the bottle rather than a bottle brush.

I read about the acid wash and used lemon juice, hoping that the scratches were in the film rather than in the glass itself. The scratches are still barely visible. Perhaps I have not got rid of the film, or maybe the scratches are etched in glass.

This has never happened before. I may have missed something on previous cleans but I did always inspect as closely as possible and if there was even the slightest smudge on the inside I'd wash and rinse again - I don't want no infected brews.

This was the first time I used a generic oxi rather than the brand name Oxiclean with the blue crystals. Perhaps they've put a little something extra in the powder.

However, it's not a new carboy. I bought it off kijiji. It's very old. I inspected it closely and although it was dirty and had scratches on the outside seemed well enough. Every beer I've fermented with this carboy has not been quite right. Drinkable but not as good as commercial brews and it has been maintained on the brewing fora with all-grain, even if you mess up, your beer will be better than any commercial brew.

I'm going to shell out the 33 dollars for a HDPE bucket.

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Yeah! See! I'm not crazy!

My incident, BTW, happened with name brand Oxiclean. And the effects you are describing are exactly what happened to mine! If you hold mine up to bright light you can see tiny little bubbles etched into the glass.

My solution---not necessarily a recommendation for others-- is to quit using it. I'm switching to PBW....

But why won't PBW do the same thing? I think it's more likely that the "film" you guys got from leaving it in the carboy so long just exposed some scratches that were already there. But, hey, it's just a guess....

That had occurred to me, so I suppose it's a good thing that oxiclean has that annoying film. As I said every beer out of that carboy's been a bit wrong; that's why I'm switching to a bucket.

My carboy doesn't have pits or bubbles it has short scratches in a four inch band running up the carboy that stop abruptly at the shoulder; at the base there are a few horizontal scratches. I can't think what the previous owner was doing but it really looks like something physical - coins or gravel - did that i.e not a chemical reaction.

Bloody hell, this brewing business is a bit like CSI sometimes.

FWIW, it doesn't have that annoying film unless you let ot sit in there too long. I believe I've heard that really hard water can cause it, too. I don't leave Oxiclean in mine longer than overnight (and seldom more than a few hours) and my water isn't real hard, so it's never been an issue for me.

I love the generic oxi...

I dont use glass (too heavy and fragile)... I know it seems that Oxi works better with soft water. Luckily I have soft water, and can pay $1 per pound for it rather than use the PBW.

Some people can use it successfully, some cannot.

I suppose that could be part of the problem I had--my water is VERY hard.