Talk to me about Carapils

it's for head-retention, right? Don't almost all styles want good head retention? So why don't we always use it?
Can somebody illuminate for me when this malt is appropriate to use and when it's not, and in what amounts? I've never used it before but always wonder about it because I love head. Who doesn't. I'm brewing a breakfast stout next week and considering adding it to the grain bill due to the reputation coffee and chocolate have for killing head. Also brewing a Belgian abbey at some point and considering either Carapils or a bit of wheat malt for head retention. Thoughts?
Im Voraus vielen Dank,
Andy

Carapils provides unfermentable dextrins (it is also known as dextrine malt). So it is not only for head retention, it will also provide a fuller mouthfeel. This is fine in most styles but not appropriate in others.

It does give significant head retention which lingers to the end of the glass.

Wheat is pretty common in Belgian recipes, it would not be out of place. Carapils might not be a great choice, as you are looking for good attenuation in a Belgian abbey ale.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/carapils-vs-flaked-barley-99458/
If I was going to brew a Breakfast Stout, I would go w/ the flaked barley myself.
Cheers
Jay

Jaybird said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/carapils-vs-flaked-barley-99458/
If I was going to brew a Breakfast Stout, I would go w/ the flaked barley myself.
Cheers
Jay

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Okay, so on that note, the Breakfast stout has flaked oats as 8% of the grainbill. Same effect, so no flaked barley needed?

thejerk said:

Okay, so on that note, the Breakfast stout has flaked oats as 8% of the grainbill. Same effect, so no flaked barley needed?

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Flaked barley and flaked oats are basically the same thing, or at least used to accomplish the same thing. 8% seems about right depending on exactly what you're shooting for. So no no more flaked barley needed.
Cheers
Jay

Actually, I think oats have oils that kill head retention. I don't think that they have the same effect as flaked barley with regard to head formation and retention. I read this somewhere so i actually have no experience but I believe adjuncts such as rice, corn, oats, etc are no good for creating good head. Late hop additions help create a sticky head with lacing. Wheat definitely helps with head formation...hope this helps.

Hmm. So the Breakfast stout, which contains flaked oats, coffee, and chocolate, is going to be battling a lot of oils. Recipe being discussed here. Would it be feasible to also add in flaked barley or even carapils to this recipe, or what might be a solution? The recipe already calls for about 4% roasted barley malt, I don't know if that's relevant or not.

Yea you are right...lots of those pesky oils. They do provide good mouthfeel though. I've found that flaked wheat is great to increase both head formation and retention. But I've heard both flaked barley and rye can help too. Don't forget about the carbonation...stouts typically aren't heavily carbonated. Carapils honestly may not be a bad idea either because as Jaybird mentioned, it helps the foam linger. A small amount of each shouldn't impart any noticeable flavor as the dark malts should dominate. An increase in mouthfeel fits the stout style too so that should be appropriate. Good luck!

You might want to try a cold break before you pitch too, and let the oils float to the top and draw the wort out from under the top layer with the excess oil.

I've mostly used Cara-pils in Belgian's and double IPA's, and it helps to add head retention.

Do I need to mash the carapils or can I just steep if adding to an extract batch for head retention? Not sure if the conversion process is needed and would shorten my brewday a bit if I don't have to do that - it's the only grain in this recipe.

No. Any malt that begins with cara- including carapils does not need to be mashed. Steep away.

when a recipe calls for carapils and some caramel (40,60,etc) do those bring different things to the malt bill? For example: are the head-retention/ mouthfeel qualities of carapils are just not there in the caramel?

TacoGuthrie said:

when a recipe calls for carapils and some caramel (40,60,etc) do those bring different things to the malt bill? For example: are the head-retention/ mouthfeel qualities of carapils are just not there in the caramel?

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No. I rarely use carapils any more- most of my grain bills have crystal, which also provides some head retention qualities. If a recipe calls for both carapils and caramel malt, that is generally going to be a sweeter beer.

ok, thanks yooper.

so what about carapils and wheat? Wheat gives great head retention and i've seen a couple ipa recipes that have both wheat and carapils. Seems to me that those are doing the same thing in that grain bill.

TacoGuthrie said:

when a recipe calls for carapils and some caramel (40,60,etc) do those bring different things to the malt bill? For example: are the head-retention/ mouthfeel qualities of carapils are just not there in the caramel?

Click to expand...

Caramel increases body and head retention just as Carapils, but it also adds sweetness and various caramel flavors depending on the type. So if you want to add more body without adding additional sweetness you can sub out some crystal with carapils. So:

1 lb Crystal 40 might be to sweet, but you can still get the head/body by doing...

0.5 lb Crystal 40
0.5 lb Carapils

Flaked anything in your recipe will add body, creamy and head retention. Carapils will also add a slight sweetness. Why are you so worried? If you are so worried, then you need to follow one of the recipes that are at the top of the page under the recipe section. They will be something that people have tried (hopefully) so that they are moreso foolproof. For example, if you are looking to brew a Stout, then there are a ton of recipes that are there and will keep you from worrying about the "oils" and the "sweetness" that are associated with certain things.

Good Luck!

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that the lighter the Crystal/Caramel malt the more it will aid head retention. IME/IMO, the darker ones hardly at all.

IME, Flaked Oats don't increase head and actually hurt it a little but the silky mouthfeel is worth it.

I think this question was asked but I'm not sure of the answer. I'm making a fairly simple IPA and I have a 1/2 lb of carapils and a 1/2 lb of white wheat left over from another recipe. I wouldn't mind using them up to get better head retention, but will the wheat make it cloudy, or is 1/2 lb too little to matter?

IMO, Carapils does not add sweetness. It adds body. The long chain dextrines are not sweet.

I just seem to be reading the contrary in some of the responses above.