Copper-in-PVC Counterflow Chiller

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mrjofus1959

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This one is based on a couple of the all copper straight run versions I've seen online, only this one uses PVC and copper. The wort flows through 1/2" rigid copper pipe with 1/2" ID silicone tubing for the loop backs. The water flows through 1" PVC pipe and fittings. The ends of the PVC tees have 1/2" FPT x 1" PVC fittings, with the copper sanded and then centered with o-rings pushed all the way in, and then glued in place with JB Weld. Why the o-rings? I wanted to try and keep the copper from physically touching the PVC to minimize heat transfer from the copper to the PVC at the beginning of the cooling. Not shown are the camlock fittings for the wort in and out that are removable and held in place with silicone tubing and hose clamps during use. This allows those pieces to be boiled if desired for cleaning, with the rest of the copper cleaned with PBW pumped through.

This cost around $60 to build, and yields about 18 feet of counterflow contact. It will sit just until the top surface of my brew stand with the fittings end located on the same end as my BK. Note I have electric brewing setup, and I'll be whirl-pooling by pumping through the CFC and back to the BK.

I tested the setup today using water only, and here are my results...

CFC Results with ~47 F water, with 12+ gal of 200 F water to start

150 F at 2:25
125 F at 4:30
100 F at 7:20
90 F at 9:00
80 F at 11:05
75 F at 12:25
70 F at 14:03
65 F at 15:48
60 F at 18:18
At 20:00 - 58 F

image-2583571370.jpg



image-4204204473.jpg



image-1724829726.jpg
 
I made something similar for my old rig and had it mounted on the rear of the stand. It was a gravity feed arrangement, all copper with 5 modules with about 3' of cooling length on each. It worked, but in the summer when my cooling water was warmer I ended up supplementing 10 gallon boils with a small immersion coil to assist. I had a dial thermometer at the wort output and a ball valve to adjust the wort flow into the fermenter to maintain the desired temperature. I was a bit disappointed with the overall performance with mine, but it was an interesting build. I think mine would have worked ok with 2 or 3 more cooling modules, but the mounting method on my frame would not work out.....
 
Our groundwater temps here in Fort Collins, CO stay pretty cold in the summertime so I'm hoping I'll get good results then too. But just in case I need more cooling I left the water outlet extra long so that I could add on a more modules (thanks for that - I like that description!). I think I can fit 2 more on the one plane under my bench top, but worst case I could double back and have a second layer underneath. Kind of like this setup:

http://www.capandhare.com/forums/album.php?albumid=32
 
Our groundwater temps here in Fort Collins, CO stay pretty cold in the summertime so I'm hoping I'll get good results then too. But just in case I need more cooling I left the water outlet extra long so that I could add on a more modules (thanks for that - I like that description!). I think I can fit 2 more on the one plane under my bench top, but worst case I could double back and have a second layer underneath. Kind of like this setup:

http://www.capandhare.com/forums/album.php?albumid=32

Hello fellow foco brewer! That thing is cool but it seems huge! It must be cheaper than just fishing copper through a garden hose, but jeesh.
 
Are all the tee's open to one another? You may be short circuiting water if they are open as the water will take the path of least resistance and flow from in to out through the tee's closest to the connection end rather than going down the length of the chiller.

Nice work though.
 
WPStrassburg said:
Are all the tee's open to one another? You may be short circuiting water if they are open as the water will take the path of least resistance and flow from in to out through the tee's closest to the connection end rather than going down the length of the chiller.

Nice work though.

Thanks, and no they're not. Hard to tell from the pics maybe, but there are 3 pairs in there with each tee ripped in half on my table saw. They're just snapped on to the pipe to add some structural support.
 
Awesome build, I dig it! I really want to put something like this together - just a bit smaller so I can mount it under the counter where I brew. I'm currently using a copper-inside-hose chiller which is too bulky and overkill for what I'm doing.

Sorry to revive such an old thread but do you have any feedback on the longevity of this build? How are the JB-Welded parts doing? Any cracks/leaks/everything's still perfect?
 
Awesome build, I dig it! I really want to put something like this together - just a bit smaller so I can mount it under the counter where I brew. I'm currently using a copper-inside-hose chiller which is too bulky and overkill for what I'm doing.

Sorry to revive such an old thread but do you have any feedback on the longevity of this build? How are the JB-Welded parts doing? Any cracks/leaks/everything's still perfect?


The JB Weld was not the way to go. I rebuilt using brass compression to MPT fittings that I drilled out to allow the copper pipe to pass through. That solution has been rock solid.

The JB Weld failed due to what I'd guess to be the expansion and contraction of the copper pipe during cooling.


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Hmm. Dang. Wish I would've checked the thread again last night.

I put this together with 1/2" (smooth inside) connectors on the end : https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...5_10204124711060481_2261957536484771078_n.jpg with the hopes of setting the copper in place like you described - with silicone or something I have sitting around. I would expect the same fate eventually.

I think I'll dig around for some adapters this weekend and see if what I've got is still usable.
 
The JB Weld was not the way to go. I rebuilt using brass compression to MPT fittings that I drilled out to allow the copper pipe to pass through. That solution has been rock solid.

The JB Weld failed due to what I'd guess to be the expansion and contraction of the copper pipe during cooling.


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"MPT" or "NPT" fittings?

I know what the latter one is, just not the former.
 
MPT for male pipe thread. The compression fittings I used are brass, 5/8" compression on one side (I used o-rings instead of the ferrules) and 3/4" MPT on the other. Those are threaded into 3/4" FPT bushings glued into 1" PVC tees at the ends. Here's a not-so-great-photo:

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1402617685.174848.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1402617714.111222.jpg


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I should probably add another comment... My first iteration using silicone tubing only for the loops on the end of the chiller, and as you can see in these last two photos I switched to copper and silicone. This is because when I was recirculating/whirlpooling back into my BK with two March pumps in series there was enough suction to collapse the silicone only loops.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Thanks for the updates! Actually this makes it perfectly clear.

I think I may end up trashing my entire PVC structure. With the 1/2" ends I'll need 5/8 (compression) to 1/2" (male pipe) fittings 0 I'll probably end up having to drill through the entire threaded side in order to make them work.

Did you source them at a local hardware store or do you have any tips on where to find the best priced compression fittings?
 
On the suction collapsing the silicone: Did you ever try the chiller on the outlet side of the pump?

Was just going to ask that - makes more sense to me to PUSH than to try and PULL the wort.

So it'd be: Kettle->Pump->Input side to chiller->Output of chiller back to kettle for recirc, then to put it into a carboy, You'd just lift the return hose end and put it into the carboy and push/gravity drain out.
 
Yeah, the whole point of having straight cooling runs is so you can run a brush through once in a while to be absolutely sure it's clean. The copper U shapes don't afford that so the silicone only loops are the way to go.
 
On the suction collapsing the silicone: Did you ever try the chiller on the outlet side of the pump?


Nope I didn't try that. At the time all I was thinking about was pulling through the chiller to keep negative pressure on the tubing so it would "blow off" if I forgot and closed a valve.


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Yeah, the whole point of having straight cooling runs is so you can run a brush through once in a while to be absolutely sure it's clean. The copper U shapes don't afford that so the silicone only loops are the way to go.


The copper loops come right off for cleaning as they're only held in place with short pieces of silicone tubing.


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I am trying to build one of these, but I can't seem to find a good detailed list of parts. I tried going to Home Depot to just look for the parts. I can't seem to find the pieces I need in order to secure the copper pipe to the PVC pipe. Can someone help me out here?
 
Hey Doc, you're looking for 5/8 compression to 1/2 MPT. The 5/8" compression side will seal against your 1/2" rigid copper pipe (rigid copper is measured as inside diamater of 1/2 and outside of 5/8) and the 1/2" male pipe thread side will thread into the PVC assuming you've got a 1/2 Female pipe thread to PVC adapter. Compression fittings are not intended to allow the pipe to go all of the way through, so you're going to have to disassemble the brass fitting and drill it out. You'll need a 5/8 drill bit to get through that fitting. In my build, I also used two o-rings on the compression side to seal the fitting to the outside of the copper pipe. Basically just un-screw the compression side, drill it out and add o-rings around your copper pipe to seal it up. Here's the link I found to HD: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...ee-Brass-Compression-Adapter-801099/207176829
 
I built one but found it was too expensive using the PVC and compression fittings. I went all copper instead. I whirlpool thru my chiller and the larger sized piping made it flow alot better than the typical diy coiled 3/8 chiller it replaced.cheers
IMG-20180907-WA0012.jpeg
 
I bought 1" PVC and caps. I feel more comfortable drilling holes in caps than in a compression fitting. At this point I have some rubber washers I bought to see if I can use those as a means to seal the hole with the copper running though it. I probably should have bought O rings instead. All in so far, I'm a little over $60 for everything.
 
I bought 1" PVC and caps. I feel more comfortable drilling holes in caps than in a compression fitting. At this point I have some rubber washers I bought to see if I can use those as a means to seal the hole with the copper running though it. I probably should have bought O rings instead. All in so far, I'm a little over $60 for everything.
I'd be pretty surprised if it can take the tap pressure with just orings.
 
I'd be pretty surprised if it can take the tap pressure with just orings.
I'm still in the process of building. We'll see how things go. I have rubber washers at the moment. It was the best idea I had without having to drill out a compression fitting. Any suggestions on a sealant are welcome.
 
Do you have a picture of how your going to assemble it. I can't picture it. Cheers
 
That's what I was going for. I just did 2 single runs as it fit my brew stand better and had the side effects of less fittings to buy as well as less soldering. I was more curious about your orings configuration as I can't picture how that's going to work. Unless the budget is very tight I think you should solder it like the Jada. I'm thinking your gonna have a spectacular leak otherwise. Cheers
 
That's what I was going for. I just did 2 single runs as it fit my brew stand better and had the side effects of less fittings to buy as well as less soldering. I was more curious about your orings configuration as I can't picture how that's going to work. Unless the budget is very tight I think you should solder it like the Jada. I'm thinking your gonna have a spectacular leak otherwise. Cheers

I picked these up instead of O-rings.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-5...++037155807871+{productkey}+qu:{037155807871}
 
Give it a shot. Maybe once you have it together post up a pic. I'm still not sure how your sealing it up with those washers.cheers
 
I'm hoping the washer will be a snug fit against the copper pipe and therefore give me a seal. There is no glue or anything doing the sealing.
 
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