Counterflow not good enough...

My counterflow chiller just isn't getting the job done. It took me almost 2 hours to cool down 12 gallons of wort. My cold water is a bit warm (60+). I'm cooling to 66-68 degrees.

This past weekend I had the water go through an immersion chiller in ice water. It didn't help much unfortunately and the ice melted within 20 minutes.

So what can I buy or do? I want to get my chilling down to 30 minutes.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you sure the wort and the cooling water are running in opposite directions? Is this a hose CFC or a plate chiller?

passedpawn said:

That doesn't make any sense. Are you sure the wort and the cooling water are running in opposite directions? Is this a hose CFC or a plate chiller?

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And are you recirc'ing or once through? A temp difference of 60+ to 66 is not much at all and this might be your biggest issue. How long did it take to get to 75?

mattd2 said:

And are you recirc'ing or once through? A temp difference of 60+ to 66 is not much at all and this might be your biggest issue. How long did it take to get to 75?

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Even recircing woudn't take 2 hours.

The best way is to maximize the water flow, measure the wort output from the chiller, and reduce the wort flow until you get the output temp you want. Send the wort straight to the fermenter. I usually recirc for a minute or two until the output temp gets to where I want it, then switch to the carboys.

passedpawn said:

Even recircing woudn't take 2 hours.

The best way is to maximize the water flow, measure the wort output from the chiller, and reduce the wort flow until you get the output temp you want. Send the wort straight to the fermenter. I usually recirc for a minute or two until the output temp gets to where I want it, then switch to the carboys.

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Definitely going in opposite directions.

I'm doing a once through and it's just above a trickle going into the fermenter to keep the temp below 70 degrees. Are you suggesting recirculating the wort through the CFC right back into the boil kettle?

mattd2 said:

And are you recirc'ing or once through? A temp difference of 60+ to 66 is not much at all and this might be your biggest issue. How long did it take to get to 75?

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Once through. I just measured and the temp of the water was 64.6, yikes.

Haven't done 75.

jbsengineer said:

Definitely going in opposite directions.

I'm doing a once through and it's just above a trickle going into the fermenter to keep the temp below 70 degrees. Are you suggesting recirculating the wort through the CFC right back into the boil kettle?

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That's what I do, and it kills three birds with one stone. (Please don't call PETA !)

One, since my tap water in the summer is warmer, I recirculate until I hit 140, and then send the wort to the fermenter on the next pass. Two, that means my hoppy beers can have "whirlpool hops" added at flame out, and I get lots of hoppy goodnews, and three- it means that I can "whirlpool" a bit in my boil kettle so that the hops pellets form a cone in the center.

It still doesn't take me all that long to chill 10 gallons of wort, though. I'd suggest making sure that you get your water in your chiller as cold as possible (the prechiller is a great addition), making sure to agitate/recirculate the wort and also moving the prechiller around so you don't get hot spots.

i use a plate chiller and can cool 10 gallons in under 15min using gravity alone, 2 hrs is way too long.

When my cooling water (pool water) is too high, I just chill the best I can and toss the carboys in my chest freezer. Gets them down in a couple of hours.

eastoak said:

i use a plate chiller and can cool 10 gallons in under 15min using gravity alone, 2 hrs is way too long.

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how cold is your water?

passedpawn said:

When my cooling water (pool water) is too high, I just chill the best I can and toss the carboys in my chest freezer. Gets them down in a couple of hours.

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I feed it directly into a conical in the freezer. Guess I could pump it in a bit faster around 75-80, let it cool, then pitch.

If your cooling water is 60 degrees you should be able to get to 62 no sweat. My cooling water is 75 deg and I get to 75 in no more than 15 minutes with a counter flow plate chiller recirculated through the boil kettle.

So my suggestion is get a pump to pump back to the boil kettle and let it rip

What kind of CFC is this? Did you build it yourself? How long is the cooling line?

jbsengineer said:

how cold is your water?

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mid 60's in summer. if i use my pump without throttling the outflow from the pump the wort will be high 70's low 80's. i start the flow with the pump then shut it off and let the siphon take over.

bigbeergeek said:

What kind of CFC is this? Did you build it yourself? How long is the cooling line?

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Got it from morebeer:

http://morebeer.com/view_product/19533//Chillus_Convolutus_Counterflow_Wort_Chiller

If by cooling line you mean the line from the sink to the chiller. It's probably 10 feet at most.

I'm stumped at what could be wrong at this point...

Is it possible that my "cold" water if flowing to fast through the chiller?

jbsengineer said:

Is it possible that my "cold" water if flowing to fast through the chiller?

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No

jbsengineer said:

Is it possible that my "cold" water if flowing to fast through the chiller?

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your wort is flowing too fast. if you can slow down the wort and speed up the water that would help. turbulence in the water would help too.

Damn, it's a nice looking chiller but there's only 12 feet of contact ("turbulent" or not) between wort and water. My homemade rig is about 19 feet and my wort reaches water temp without taking 2 hrs :/

Yes, 12 feet is too short for 12 gal with 65F tap water.
I would suggest making post-chiller submerged in ice water, recirculate wort until it falls to 100F (at the end of CFC) and then pass it trough ice water.

I have 25 feet CFC and it takes 45-60 minutes to chill 10 gallons to 63F with 61F tap water.
Since I have HERMS, at my last batch I used HEX as post chiller- I filled it with ice and added water just to cover ice. I passed wort to HEX after it drops to 100F and it took ~20 minutes to run whole 10 gal batch cooled to 60F.

that chiller from morebeer should be plenty, just have to get the flow rates right; fast water and slow wort.

eastoak said:

that chiller from morebeer should be plenty, just have to get the flow rates right; fast water and slow wort.

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That's the problem though. Its almost a trickle to keep under 70 degrees. So it takes 2 hours to chill 12 gallons.

I use a plate chiller from Blichman with 68F water and the wort comes out at a reasonable clip at 71F. Probably took about 20 mn for 10.5 gallons last time I used it.

MC

I am planning to do some testing with water either tonight or tomorrow.

I recirc my wort back into the boil kettle on a immersion chiller and can get down to 68-69 in 25-35 minutes usually...(5 g batch)

jbsengineer said:

That's the problem though. Its almost a trickle to keep under 70 degrees. So it takes 2 hours to chill 12 gallons.

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wow. i thought the convoluted copper was maybe the same surface area as a longer chiller. at $180 i'd be on the horn with morebeer asking them where's the beef.