Ultra Palmolive Oxy Plus w/Bleach Alternative

I've started to use this to clean/sanitize a lot of my equipment. It's really seems to work great and it's phosphate free!

I'm sure Colgate doesn't need me pushing their products for them but I really think other brewers might like it!

I got palmolive on my lips once.... it wouldn't come out... kinda like how you can get it on your hands, wash your hands, and it like starts to "seep" out of your hands....



oh, nasty...



...


That said, I have no experience with the product you show in the pic, I just have a prejudice against palmolive.

I have that very bottle on my sink! Don't use it....the surfactants are not designed to rinse clean. It's meant to clean,soak, then go to the dishwasher. You're gonna get soapy/bleachy flavors...I'd just stick with what's proven.....oxyclean/pbw/starsan.

What gave you the idea that dish soap was an adequate sanitizer?? I can see using it for cleaning, but certainly not sanitizing...

ScubaSteve said:

I have that very bottle on my sink! Don't use it....the surfactants are not designed to rinse clean. It's meant to clean,soak, then go to the dishwasher. You're gonna get soapy/bleachy flavors...I'd just stick with what's proven.....oxyclean/pbw/starsan.

Click to expand...

How do you know the surfactants, if any, are not designed to rinse clean? I hand wash a lot of my equipment and this product has been working very well for me.

I still use other products like PBW and 1Step.

Funkenjäger said:

What gave you the idea that dish soap was an adequate sanitizer?? I can see using it for cleaning, but certainly not sanitizing...

Click to expand...

I didn't mean to say it is a complete sanitizer, but if it has a bleach type alternative one would imagine it has decent sanitizing properties.

Colgate is mailing me the ingredients used in this product so we'll all find out. I'll post it as soon as I get it.

I can't dispute the fact that you claim it works.

But...soap is a terrible sanitizer when it comes to beer equipment, especially dish soap. First, you have no idea what concentration is required to sanitize properly. Second, and more importantly, dish soap tends to be "clingy" (reference surfactants) and not rinse off well, potentially impacting your beer's flavor and head retention.

Many of us avoid using any soap products at all on our brew equipment, to include our beer glasses!

Crazytwoknobs said:

I got palmolive on my lips once.... it wouldn't come out... kinda like how you can get it on your hands, wash your hands, and it like starts to "seep" out of your hands....oh, nasty......That said, I have no experience with the product you show in the pic, I just have a prejudice against palmolive.

Click to expand...

So what's your prejudice against palmolive? Have you ever got sanstar, bleach or PBW on your lips? :cross:

whether it sanitizes or not isn't the problem. Those kind of cleaners are meant to leave a film on what you're washing to keep it from spotting.

Yuri_Rage said:

...Second, and more importantly, dish soap tends to be "clingy" (reference surfactants) and not rinse off well, potentially impacting your beer's flavor and head retention...Many of us avoid using any soap products at all on our brew equipment, to include our beer glasses!

Click to expand...

I've run into you guys/gals with grungy beer and wine glasses who believe cleaning with soap is the killer to head retention and can add off flavor.

I personally believe this is hogwash, especially when you're dealing with glass that's properly rinsed.

I have referenced surfactants and here is a fairly good chapter on cleaning agents:

http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/brewery_cleaning_sanitation/cleaning_detergents.htm


I'll post the ingredients in this product as soon as I receive them.

cnbudz said:

whether it sanitizes or not isn't the problem. Those kind of cleaners are meant to leave a film on what you're washing to keep it from spotting.

Click to expand...

You sure you're not talking about dish washer soap/liquid like cascade?

I'm not sure what benefit this product would give you (even if it DOES sanitize to the levels which we need, which I'm doubtful of).

the_bird said:

I'm not sure what benefit this product would give you (even if it DOES sanitize to the levels which we need, which I'm doubtful of).

Click to expand...

I think it's good for cleaning kettles, airlocks, stoppers, and a variety of other equipment... Generally I've been mixing some bleach with the soap I wash things with. Where as with this product your hands don't smell like bleach afterwards.

I'm not saying it's Sanstar, but it does sanitize to some degree while cleaning pretty damn well.

gyrfalcon said:

I think it's good for cleaning kettles, airlocks, stoppers, and a variety of other equipment... Generally I've been mixing some bleach with the soap I wash things with. Where as with this product your hands don't smell like bleach afterwards.

I'm not saying it's Sanstar, but it does sanitize to some degree while cleaning pretty damn well.

Click to expand...

How do you in fact know that it sanitizes to any degree whatsoever?

jayhoz said:

How do you in fact know that it sanitizes to any degree whatsoever?

Click to expand...

Well at this very moment I know it has Ethanol in it at 1000ppm from the MSDS sheet which acts as a sanitizer to SOME degree. It also has a bleach alternative of some sort which I'm naive enough to believe also sanitizes to SOME degree.

I'll let everyone else know what it does have in it (good or bad) as soon as I get the ingredient listing... Which I probably should have done before even posting about something that works well for me.

I guess I'm suspicious in part because you indicated that you JUST started using it recently, so that if it's NOT acting as a sanitizer, you might not realized it yet.

gyrfalcon said:

Well at this very moment I know it has Ethanol in it at 1000ppm from the MSDS sheet which acts as a sanitizer to SOME degree. It also has a bleach alternative of some sort which I'm naive enough to believe also sanitizes to SOME degree.

I'll let everyone else know what it does have in it (good or bad) as soon as I get the ingredient listing... Which I probably should have done before even posting about something that works well for me.

Click to expand...

If you don't mind having your batch infected to SOME degree then go ahead and use it. For what it's worth (probably not a lot); here is what Dawn says about their product with their Bleach Alternative.

http://www.dawn-dish.com/sites/en_US/dawn/bleach_alt_qa2.shtml

Is this an antibacterial product?
No.
Does this product kill germs on dishes, hands, or surfaces?
No.
Does Dawn with Bleach Alternative contain bleach?
No.

Click to expand...

Is it time for the biochemists to step forth yet? No? Ok then I'll take some more popcorn.

gyrfalcon said:

I've run into you guys/gals with grungy beer and wine glasses who believe cleaning with soap is the killer to head retention and can add off flavor.

Click to expand...

This would be a good time to admit that I'm a hypocrite of gigantic proportions. I wash all my glasses and beer bottles (mostly just to clean the outside of the bottles) in the dishwasher, and I don't even bother emptying the JetDry container first. I haven't had any issues, but if you're looking for recommendations, I say, "Do as I say, not as I do" in this case. As for the grungy glass people - all it takes is drying them with a clean, lint-free towel to prevent those ugly water spots.

I remain a HUGE skeptic of the utility of Palmolive's wonder soap as a sanitizer. Indeed, the biggest contributing factor in brewhouse sanitation is simply cleanliness. It's VERY possible to brew good, non-infected beer without the use of any chemicals at all so long as your equipment is kept clean (i.e., you could just rinse everything really well). However, most of us opt for some insurance in the form of anti-microbial chemicals of some sort. Star San is my insurance of choice - it's food grade, no rinse, and proven effective without harming flavor or head retention. Dish soap ranks pretty low on the list, and, IMHO, it's potentially worse than just using water - after all, you've got to rinse like crazy after using soap to avoid the problems associated with soap residue...and wouldn't that thorough rinsing negate some of the positive effects of using it as a sanitizer in the first place?

As for "Bleach Alternative" - when it comes to laundry detergent, bleach alternatives are simply brighteners, not disinfectants. I'd tend to think the same for a dish soap, but I'll withold final judgment on that for when you get an answer from Colgate.

I've never used any soap or detergents on any of my brewing gear. My beer glasses do make it through the dishwasher occasionally, though.

I used oxyclean once on some grungy bottles, but otherwise just rinse well with scalding hot water until it looks clean and then sanitize. Occasionally, I'll have to rub with a sponge and then rinse again but usually my stuff is clean right away. Some of my empty carboys and tubing get a sulfite rinse when I put them a way, if it might be a while until I use them again. (I make alot of wine so I always have some sulfite mix around).

I guess whatever works for each of us is what works.

Alright, as promised here are the ingredients in the product:

• Water
• Ammonium C12-15 Pareth Ulfate
• Magnesium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate
• Lauramidopropylamine Oxide
• SD Alcohol 3-A
• Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate
• Sodium Xylenesulfonate
• Sodium Chloride
• "Fragrance"
• Pentasodium Penetate

Alot of these appear to be Surfactants to help clean or create foam.

I would like to retract my recommendation of this as being a good cleaning product for brewing equipment. I hand wash all my dishes and kettles and it seemed to be fairly good at cleaning gunk off of them. That being said I'll think I'll definitely continue to use bleach and sanitizer type products since it's most likely that the bleach alternative is nothing more than a surfactant as jayhoz pointed out. (Actually I never stopped using them)