Making a Fruit Beer Without any additional Fermentation from the Fruit?? (Campden?)

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fastricky

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I've made a few fruit beers and have had to compensate for the additional fermentation brought on when adding the fruit (way drier than I wanted) by adding maltodextrine and lactose. The results were fine, but I want to do something else...

In the future, I want to add the fruit to a fully fermented wort, but first, kill off all the remaining yeast so the fruit isn't fermented at all.

Clearly pasteurization is something I don't want to do. Filtering sounds like a major PITA, but I would consider it if it was the best way to go.

But what about adding some Campden after fermentation is complete? Then adding the fruit to get the right flavor, and once that is achieved, carbing in the keg with CO2?

Thoughts??
 
I ask because when i've done fruit additions (to the secondary after ferment was complete) i haven't had problems with the fruit bringing the beer down past where it was prior to addition.

To me, it seems logical that if you add fruit to a 100% completed beer, any additional fermentation should only be with relation to the fruit sugars. I could be mistaken, of course.
 
Hey guys,

Fruit extract is not an option, I don't like the flavor as much...

I only transfer to the secondary after determining that I have hit my Final Gravity... but when adding the fruit, those horny little yeasties go berserk and a full-on fermentation begins again (with krausen, laser-light show... the works!)

The result has been a beer that is much drier than I would like...
 
Give the primary fermentation plenty of time to finish.

Cold crash the CRAP out of the beer in the primary.

Rack the cold beer from primary on top of the fruit in secondary, taking every precaution to keep as much yeast as possible out of the secondary.

Keep the secondary COLD. Very cold.

After a week, rack to keg, and keep the keg chilled (force carb, of course).

That should reduce secondary fermentation of the fruit and any "wine" off flavors.

:mug:
 
Thanks Cpt! I like your process a lot... but what if I want to bottle? Even if I do so from the keg so there is no priming sugar involved, when the bottles keep at room temp, wouldn't that stir up any remaining yeast and they'd have at the fruit juices?
 
Thanks Cpt! I like your process a lot... but what if I want to bottle? Even if I do so from the keg so there is no priming sugar involved, when the bottles keep at room temp, wouldn't that stir up any remaining yeast and they'd have at the fruit juices?

Even doing the cold method, you will still get some secondary fermentation. It is simply hard to stop yeast. After crash cooling to reduce yeast, cold secondary, and cold kegging, you should have minimal fermentation in the bottle.

When I carry beer around in the bottle, it is a PET bottle I fill from the keg and keep cold.
 
Camden is only an option if you're going to keg and force carb.

Depending on how much you are overshooting your FG, you might want to adjust your mash temp and rest time for a less fermentable wort.

Raise your mash temp for 3-4 degrees and shave off 15-20 minutes from your rest time and that will give you back 7-8 gravity points.
 
Yes, that was my original plan - to use the campden and kill off the yeasties once I've hit FG. Then, after the 'campden massacre', rack onto the fruit for a week or so and then rack again to keg, carb it up over a few weeks, and then bottle with the BMBF.

To my mind my FG is not really the issue... no? Seems like regardless of what my FG is, once I add fruit the yeast will attack it like mad. Unless they have met an untimely death. Sad but true I think...

While the previous crash cooling idea is a good one, I think it might still create problems down the road come bottling time...
 
So what did you decide on was it the cold crash method or campden? Can you let us know the results of what you tried?
 
To my mind my FG is not really the issue... no? Seems like regardless of what my FG is, once I add fruit the yeast will attack it like mad. Unless they have met an untimely death. Sad but true I think...

So it's not dryness that you're concerned with as much as that the fruit flavor isn't as "in your face" as you'd like? I actually prefer that the fruit flavor is subtle, makes it still seem like beer to me. I make an apricot pale ale very similar to pyramid, pretty much my normal pale ale recipe and then rack into either apricot preserves or whatever I can get my hands on. It ferments a bit, but the flavor is there behind the pale ale.

I think you're on the right track if you're trying to make your beer sweeter due to the fruit addition. Either campden or crash cooling, I'd go with crash cooling, but mostly cuz it's easy for me and I do it anyways with most of my ales.
 
So what did you decide on was it the cold crash method or campden? Can you let us know the results of what you tried?

I'm going to go the Campden route. Will be brewing up something in a week or so, so it'll be over a month before I can report back, but I will when the time comes.

Crash cooling won't work for me as I want to bottle, and if the bottles are stored at room temp, the remaining yeast will feed on the fruit sugar.

My main concern isn't getting an extreme fruit flavor, but moreso the quality of the flavor (sweeter versus dry/tart).
 
If you campden it, will there be enough yeast to carbonate in the bottle? Are you going to add more and if so how will you prevent that yeast from eating the fruit sugars you are trying so hard to preserve?
 
The campden should kill off all the yeast, so what I'll do is keg and force carb it. Then I'll bottle from the keg... no priming necessary.

Does anyone know if campden adds any off-flavors?

Before I start this project, I'm gonna call White Labs and make sure the campden will work as planned...
 
The campden should kill off all the yeast, so what I'll do is keg and force carb it. Then I'll bottle from the keg... no priming necessary.

Does anyone know if campden adds any off-flavors?

Before I start this project, I'm gonna call White Labs and make sure the campden will work as planned...

Thanks, makes alot more sense now.. I wasn't sure if you had the ability to force carb, so I was just making sure that if you were going to bottle it you weren't planning to bottle carbonate because you'd be creating bottle bombs or gushers at the very least.
 
There are things other than campden that you can use, one being potassium metabisulfite. I have used it in making cider before but never in beer. It did not seem to add any off flavors, but I do not know the pros vs cons in beer maybe someone else can chime in.
 
From my wine experience I don't think the Campden will kill off all the yeast in a healthy fermentation. At least not in the recommended dosage range. Potassium Sorbate is what wine makers use to stop fermentation. It will stop it dead in a day maybe two if you have a large colony. Wine makers use potassium or sodium metabisulfite (campden) to protect against oxidation and bacteria and wild yeast. They often add a dose every time they move the wine and at several time during the bulk aging stage. It is not known to kill the yeast off for wine makers.

I think you will just be delaying the fermentation if you use campden. This could lead to explosive results. Like I already said. Potassium Sorbate will stop the fermentation dead.

Another thing to concider is that you will be adding sulfites to the mix. In theory this will increase the perceived bitterness from your hops.

Good luck with this.
 
Ha! I did not know they were the same thing, thanks for pointing that out.
 
resurrecting 3 year old thread...

I attempted make a fruit beer without fermentation on the fruit and failed miserably.
I racked my beer on top of fruit and added potassium sorbate and left it in the fermenter for 2 weeks at 65F.
I guess I didn't do a very good job racking it off the yeast because it fermented down to dryness. Either that or I picked up contamination since I used a full pound of crystal in the original brew that finished at 1.010; now I am closer to 1.001.
It has a noticeable unpleasant smell/aftertaste. I cannot really put my finger on it but I know I have smelled that before somewhere. Maybe sulfur?
I went ahead and racked it to the keg and started force carbing it hoping extended aging will help.

I need some help identifying the smell/problem before I can come up with a proper solution. I have made fruit meads, blackberry wine, cider, and lots of beer successfully and I was confident that I knew enough to combine my collected knowledge to simply back sweeten beer with fruit. Seems that I was mistaking.
 
You may try freezing the fruit and also make sure you cold crash for a couple of days prior to racking on the fruit. Freezing the fruit should help get rid of any bugs on the fruit.
 
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