More Brew in a Bag (BIAB) Success

I've used BIAB for almost 2 years now and have dialed in my system pretty good. The mesh is sometimes called mosquito netting too.

The most grain I can get in and out of my keggle is ~24lbs. Takes 2 of us to lift it out. On 10 gallon batches I drain the majority of the wort into a second pot just to lower the water level so the bag drains some in the keggle itself. I lift the bag out and hang it over a 5 gallon bucket to continue dripping while I dump the drained wort back into the keggle and start boiling. I dump that bucket of wort back into the keggle once it slows to a drip, usually most of the way through the boil. I've got a sightglass though so I don't have to worry about getting my volumes just right, I can just top off after the mash when I start the boil. I average 70% eff.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. However, when someone qualifies a statement like this they generally are trying to be a jerk... I truly am not.

The intent of BIAB was a simplified process that used the full volume of mash water, or at least as much of it as physically possible in your vessel, during the entire mash without sparging. I think if your dunking or rinsing the grains while in a bag your doing more of a modified batch sparge.

One of the best features of this technique is that you only need one vessel to mash and boil. The result is time saved in clean up and not sparging.

Full Volume No Sparge brewing (BIAB) is a technique that works without sparging. If your having efficiency problems on normally gravity brews I'd try to figure out why the efficiency is bad as opposed to a band-aid of rinsing the grain.

There are a few posts here on HBT that cover efficiency problems with No Sparge brewing.

I don't have a problem with rinsing the grains. If that works for you great, but I don't think its really No Sparge brewing or BIAB.

bigjoe said:

Full Volume No Sparge brewing (BIAB) is a technique that works without sparging. If your having efficiency problems on normally gravity brews I'd try to figure out why the efficiency is bad as opposed to a band-aid of rinsing the grain.

Click to expand...

I did my first two batches without sparging, but I was way under my OG, so I sparged on my third. It was still under what it should have been, but it was alot better. I would love to know how to do it without sparging. I have been reading, but havent found anything to help yet.

I will keep on keeping on, since I got more determination than sense.

bigjoe said:

I don't have a problem with rinsing the grains. If that works for you great, but I don't think its really No Sparge brewing or BIAB.

Click to expand...

I brew in a bag in an 7.5 gallon turkey fryer, and it is not big enough to do a 5 gallon no sparge BIAB. Just can't get the mash thin enough. I do have the old 20 qt pot from the extract brewing days, and I heat sparge water in it, on the stove, while the mash is in the Turkey Fryer, with the bag in it.
It is brewing in a bag. It is not "no sparge" brewing in a bag. It works great. and I don't have to have a keggel or a huge pot to make it work.

BARBQ said:

I did my first two batches without sparging, but I was way under my OG, so I sparged on my third. It was still under what it should have been, but it was alot better. I would love to know how to do it without sparging. I have been reading, but havent found anything to help yet.

I will keep on keeping on, since I got more determination than sense.

Click to expand...

From what I have learned low eff with BIAB are poor grain crush.

BARBQ said:

I did my first two batches without sparging, but I was way under my OG, so I sparged on my third. It was still under what it should have been, but it was alot better. I would love to know how to do it without sparging. I have been reading, but havent found anything to help yet.

I will keep on keeping on, since I got more determination than sense.

Click to expand...

if you get your grains crushed at the LHBS, have them double crush it. you aren't going to be worried about a stuck sparge since you aren't using a MLT. then make sure you have ALL the water needed in the brew pot. account for boil off, grain absorption and trub loss. a fine crush and thin mash will get you into the mid 70's (I get 75%). heating to 170 at mash out helps too as it thins the liquor allowing more sugars to drain

bigjoe said:

I'm not trying to be a jerk. However, when someone qualifies a statement like this they generally are trying to be a jerk... I truly am not.

The intent of BIAB was a simplified process that used the full volume of mash water, or at least as much of it as physically possible in your vessel, during the entire mash without sparging. I think if your dunking or rinsing the grains while in a bag your doing more of a modified batch sparge.

One of the best features of this technique is that you only need one vessel to mash and boil. The result is time saved in clean up and not sparging.

Full Volume No Sparge brewing (BIAB) is a technique that works without sparging. If your having efficiency problems on normally gravity brews I'd try to figure out why the efficiency is bad as opposed to a band-aid of rinsing the grain.

There are a few posts here on HBT that cover efficiency problems with No Sparge brewing.

I don't have a problem with rinsing the grains. If that works for you great, but I don't think its really No Sparge brewing or BIAB.

Click to expand...

BIAB stands for Brew In A Bag from what I have read. No Sparge brewing would be just that... brewing without a sparge.

I have done BIAB without a sparge, and BIAB with a sparge.

I get the preface "I am not trying to be a Jerk here... BUT....", so what are you trying to be? The guy who suddenly proves his worth by stating the obviously inconsequential? No offense dude, but lots of other "Meaning of BIAB as God Intended It" people have said exactly what you are saying now. The fact of the matter is, that people who like to BIAB often sparge - and nobody seems to care about that fact but you. While you are not "Trying" to be a jerk, what else are you?

Brew on mang

I agree with Jjones17

Why are we splitting hairs here?

If you want to do BIAB do it! If you don't then don't!

BTW I got 80% today doing a BIAB and my process is different that the OP.

But who cares it works great for me.

I'm a jerk.

BARBQ, like a couple of others mentioned you can go with a very fine crush. If you have a way of checking your pH I'd do that to make sure your in the ball park, and check thermomter. You might try mashing longer. Stir the mash a lot, because it doesn't matter if you disturb the grain bed. I'm having an efficiency problem myself right now. I've done over 40 batches without a problem, and recently my efficiency has been suffering.

I always do a 10 minute mashout.

This one doesn't help efficiency. If you want a fairly clear wort and have a valve on your kettle you can recirculated a liter or 2 at a time during the mash out. Its kind of like a vorlauf. I use a pump now but I would recirculate a liter at a time for 5 minutes during the mash and at mash out when I didn't.

Check out the links in my sig. I think a couple of them discuss BIAB efficiency.

bigjoe said:

I'm not trying to be a jerk. However, when someone qualifies a statement like this they generally are trying to be a jerk... I truly am not.
...
I don't have a problem with rinsing the grains. If that works for you great, but I don't think its really No Sparge brewing or BIAB.

Click to expand...

I did a few things to get my efficiency up to 80%

I started crushing all my grain twice with my barley crusher and drill and not at full throttle. It takes longer but only about 2 min.

I bring the water up to 161 - 162 before I do anything(depending in grain weight it leaves me 152-154). I drop in my stainless steel vegetable steamer basket. Then I wrap a big thick blanket around my keggle.(it's -24 outside today) Then I attach the bag with clips to my keggle.

When I add the grain I add it slow. I sprinkle a scoop at a time, stirring the water aggressively and crushing any dough balls. I tie the bag shut TIGHT with three zip-ties leaving an additional three zip-tie shaped in loops to latch on to.

I lid the sucker up cover it with another blanket and wait 90 min.

I remove the blankets and start the burner then I use my hand crank block and tackle engine hoist to pull out the bag. I drain the bag then dip back in and drain again. I dip three times. Give the bag a little squeeze and that's it. (I pull out the steamer basket)

Usually my wort temp has fallen 141 degrees by the time I start the burner. This is still within the amylase conversion range. I found that when I was starting the burner to warm the water back up my efficiency wasn't as good. I chocked it up to hot spots affecting the amylase but hey I'm no scientist.

This is just how I do it. It's not the right way it's my way and it works for me.

Cheers

Hey bigjoe

Is it possible that your grain crusher has changed it's setting to a more course setting? I know my can be adjusted and now that I think about it I should probably check it's setting.

bigjoe said:

I'm not trying to be a jerk. However, when someone qualifies a statement like this they generally are trying to be a jerk... I truly am not.

The intent of BIAB was a simplified process that used the full volume of mash water, or at least as much of it as physically possible in your vessel, during the entire mash without sparging. I think if your dunking or rinsing the grains while in a bag your doing more of a modified batch sparge.

One of the best features of this technique is that you only need one vessel to mash and boil. The result is time saved in clean up and not sparging.

Full Volume No Sparge brewing (BIAB) is a technique that works without sparging. If your having efficiency problems on normally gravity brews I'd try to figure out why the efficiency is bad as opposed to a band-aid of rinsing the grain.

There are a few posts here on HBT that cover efficiency problems with No Sparge brewing.

I don't have a problem with rinsing the grains. If that works for you great, but I don't think its really No Sparge brewing or BIAB.

Click to expand...

Well, 'no sparge' would clearly be wrong. I simply have a pot I can use to do a sparge step, so I use it. Grain stays in the bag though so I call in BIAB. You want to call it BIAB with BIAB sparge? I'm too lazy for that. Simply a variation in my opinion. I'm not sure any one person can lay claim to the process and has naming rights.

Shaker
Definitely possible its my crush. I got a new mill for xmas. My old mill which was DIY pasta roller someone posted on here. I've brewed a ton of batches with it. I have it adjusted as fine as it will go. I thought the crush looked good, but once I ran some grain through my new Barley Crusher... the old one is ready for the trash pile. It only cost me 12.50 plus a homer bucket to make. So I'd say I got good use out of it. The rollers are wider on one side and its wobbling a bit when I use it. It's worn out.

My hope is that its as simple as the crush. I think I've eliminated most things it cold be.

I like to fire my kettle and keep mash temp at the same temp. I recirc and stir when I have the flame on. I have a temp probe in the bottom of the kettle and one in the middle of the mash from the top. My temp only vary by a few degrees between the 2 temp probes.

Hello from downunder all.
I just noticed this thread and thought i would chime in,BIAB is a great way to start AG brewing it's cheap,easy and if you live in a small space it may be the perfect option for your.
In Australia we have been using this method for quite a while now, some of the guys down here have taken it to a fine art.Like all great ideas it was questioned quite a bit by the "old firm" style of brewers.It shouldn't work but it did.
And like so many ideas that started as something very simple grew into a multi faceted system.You can use a simple pot/stovetop method or you can use it as a starting point to grow into a larger AG brewery,its up to you.
Aussies use swiss voille as the material for the bag,cost a couple of bucks for a few metres, any leftover material can be made into hopsocks etc.A few of the American guys have started using "Game Bags" that are bought in hunting stores.I myself have a bag purchased from a site sponser at an aussie forum.For my pot i have a crab cooker with a heat stick (2400 W) the cooker has a metal basket inside that i lift for mashout.
I cant tell you about efficiency cos i dont worry about it that much.I use a very simple 3 step process and my beer tastes great,its very easy.
Step 1 Heat water (obv)
Step 2 Place grain in bag secure to the crab pot's inner pot which is filled with holes, drop that in and cover with lid then a quilt...60 mins.
Step 3 Uncover and lift the inner pot, allow wort to drain into a bucket.Ditch the grain,add water,then boil for 60 mins.Allow to chill overnight then add your yeast.EEAASSSYYY!
A couple of tips.
Mill your grain twice.Dont worry about dust it will sink in time,cold crash at the end of fermentation if your worried about it.
Find an old quilt to cover your pot when you mash,quilts work heaps better then towels i routinely loose only 1-2 deg.
Oh yeah and read these if you like cool pictures to go with your tutourials.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50488&st=0&
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44264
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38674&hl=
This site dedicated to BIAB and BIAB alone!
http://www.biabrewer.info/
Cheers and happy brewing...(that's what its about after all)

The aussiehomebrewer site is where I learned to BIAB: full water volume, no sparge. Less equipment to store, setup & clean. Thanks guys. Oh...I regularly get 75% eff (double mill by LHBS).

damn I think where I was missing was the double mill. Thanks for all the advice guys and even the aussie! I inspected the grain this time when I got it from my LHBS before I brewed it and I did find alot of grains not cracked. I really think this will solve it.

DCX3, I dont know if you can get paint strainers for buckets in Aust but we have them here in our home improvement stores and they are really cheap and work great. $1.50 a pop here at Lowes Home Improvement Store.

I will get me LHBS to do it twice and get a mill as soon as I can.

BARBQ said:

damn I think where I was missing was the double mill. Thanks for all the advice guys and even the aussie! I inspected the grain this time when I got it from my LHBS before I brewed it and I did find alot of grains not cracked. I really think this will solve it.

DCX3, I dont know if you can get paint strainers for buckets in Aust but we have them here in our home improvement stores and they are really cheap and work great. $1.50 a pop here at Lowes Home Improvement Store.

I will get me LHBS to do it twice and get a mill as soon as I can.

Click to expand...

Hey BARBQ

When I started I was using paint strainer bags and was getting cloudy beer. Maybe I was using the wrong bag? Maybe I was doing something wrong in the process? Who knows?

I switched to the voile material and things have much been better. The bag I had sown up is a better size and the material is a much tighter weave. Apparently you can get it from Walmart for a few bucks a foot but I ordered mine off ebay for $6.

So if the paint strainer bags work for you great! But there are other options if you need them.

Cheers

ShakerD said:

Hey BARBQ

When I started I was using paint strainer bags and was getting cloudy beer. Maybe I was using the wrong bag? Maybe I was doing something wrong in the process? Who knows?

I switched to the voile material and things have much been better. The bag I had sown up is a better size and the material is a much tighter weave. Apparently you can get it from Walmart for a few bucks a foot but I ordered mine off ebay for $6.

So if the paint strainer bags work for you great! But there are other options if you need them.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I found the paint strainer bags to be too small. I purchased this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EWZWAU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 it was enough for my daughter to sew 2 bags. The extra room makes it much easier to stir the grains & the wort is much clearer.

ShakerD said:

Hey BARBQ

When I started I was using paint strainer bags and was getting cloudy beer. Maybe I was using the wrong bag? Maybe I was doing something wrong in the process? Who knows?

I switched to the voile material and things have much been better. The bag I had sown up is a better size and the material is a much tighter weave. Apparently you can get it from Walmart for a few bucks a foot but I ordered mine off ebay for $6.

So if the paint strainer bags work for you great! But there are other options if you need them.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I will check that out too. I cant ever have to many options. I was worried abou the hea ton the bag too and put it in the pot long before I put the grain to see any reaction, but didnt. I did only a Red Rye Ale with them so I couldnt tell any cloudyness yet. They fit my pot perfectly though. It is a Alum Turkey pot, not sure the size. Outdoor Gormet made it.

jjones17 said:

BIAB stands for Brew In A Bag from what I have read. No Sparge brewing would be just that... brewing without a sparge.

I have done BIAB without a sparge, and BIAB with a sparge.

I get the preface "I am not trying to be a Jerk here... BUT....", so what are you trying to be? The guy who suddenly proves his worth by stating the obviously inconsequential? No offense dude, but lots of other "Meaning of BIAB as God Intended It" people have said exactly what you are saying now. The fact of the matter is, that people who like to BIAB often sparge - and nobody seems to care about that fact but you. While you are not "Trying" to be a jerk, what else are you?

Brew on mang

Click to expand...

I am not trying to be a jerk... again.

The reason I pointed out the obviously inconsquential is because the method is a minimalist approach, and I'm one of the people on here who has pointed it out before.

I might be splitting hairs, but you could say that about fly vs. batch sparging also. Your putting water over the grains and draining into a kettle. All three are a separate technique though. To me their is a distinction between dunking grains/pooring water over the grain bed, and not rinsing the grain at all. Basically the bag is taking the place of a manifold or a braid if you sparge. Everyone seems to think you have to sparge for some reason or another. But as a general practice you don't need to. The sparge question is always the first one people ask when I talk about BIAB. Older brewers are the ones who have the biggest problem with this.

I see this as a different way of mashing that is equal to batch or fly sparging. Its not a stop off before someone starts to mash with one of the other ways and buys a bunch of equipment. It's on the same plane as the others. I have had plenty of conversations with people who have talked me down because it wasn't the "Meaning of MASHING as God Intended It". It would be interesting to know how many dunk/sparge that do BIAB as their main mashing method.

I do think the name "Brew in a Bag" is a bad name. I like to call it Full Volume No sparge mashing myself. Its a bit wordy, but right to the point. I've also had people confuse it with something you can brew with hopped extract and a plastic bag you can hang off a door knob. I used to have a link and a quick google isn't turning anything up for it.

As I said in my post I don't care if you rinse the grains or not. I was only trying to make a distinction. I wasn't trying to insult anyone's intelligence. If I did please accept my apology.

I'm not a purist in any way. If I were I'd have a 3 vessel system and wouldn't writing about how much I like BIAB.

This is a good thread.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38674&hl=

This is a good site for BIAB.
http://www.biabrewer.info/

I use Voille also.

bigjoe said:

I see this as a different way of mashing that is equal to batch or fly sparging. Its not a stop off before someone starts to mash with one of the other ways and buys a bunch of equipment. It's on the same plane as the others.

Click to expand...

Well, not quite. Unless you have an exceptionally large brew pot then you have a gravity limit that this is good for. That is why I use a second pot to sparge. It ups my efficiency and lets me brew larger beers that I'd have to use extract or sugar in otherwise. So, I would no longer be 'all grain'. I have a pot twice my batch size but still choose to do a sparge step because all of the water in that pot comes pretty close to the top with a moderate grain bill. Again, as long as my grain remains in the bag, I consider it BIAB. It is also easier for me to refer people to the technique (extract brewers hesitant to make the jump to all grain mainly) if I tell them to look up BIAB. They can the read and decide on variations themselves. Wort clarity also suffers, at least in the short run. This CAN matter under certain circumstances but is still there.

djt17 said:

I found the paint strainer bags to be too small. I purchased this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EWZWAU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 it was enough for my daughter to sew 2 bags. The extra room makes it much easier to stir the grains & the wort is much clearer.

Click to expand...

That's the stuff but it looks like there is only one left. If they run out.

Here is where I got mine off eBay.

I made one bag but I brew 10 gallon batches. I had 22 lbs of Dry grain in it yesterday. It was heavy by the time I pulled it out of the kettle.

Cheers

I use a pasta mill for crushing grain, and I find that I can control crush much better (it will feed through on a smaller setting) if I condition the malt. I throw all of the grains in a homer bucket, spritz the top with a spray bottle, shake the dry grains to the top and repeat about 5-6 times. Leave the grain sit 10 minutes or so before crushing. The total water used is only about 1/2 cup.

I started BIAB with sparge after reading Deathbrewers "easy stovetop allgrain"
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/
Again, the advantage of the sparged BIAB is that you don't need a special, extralarge pot to do it. I think it is the lowest cost way to get into AG. To do no sparge BIAB, I would have to invest in a 10+ gallon pot or a keggle.

gingerdawg, I have used a pasta mill for crushing also for quite some time. It finally wore out. I can't get a fine enough crush and I've ran it through as many as 3 times. It did get a lot of brews out of it. Probably almost 50. At least half of them had grain bills of 15 lbs or more.

For $12 it worked great for me.

bigjoe said:

gingerdawg, I have used a pasta mill for crushing also for quite some time. It finally wore out. I can't get a fine enough crush and I've ran it through as many as 3 times. It did get a lot of brews out of it. Probably almost 50. At least half of them had grain bills of 15 lbs or more.

For $12 it worked great for me.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I wore mine out too. I'm such a cheap #%#&# that I fixed it though. There is a lame flange bushing under the drive roller cover that split. the rollers squirmed around as that bushing wore out. I made a new bushing from an oilite bushing and it is good as new.

The malt conditioning allows the rollers to grab the grain better and crush it fine on one pass, set tight. The moist husks tear instead of crumble, giving a great texture to the grain with a good crush. Someone made a great thread about malt conditioning on HBT.
Here itr is:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/malt-conditioning-wow-rocks-144752/

I had mine apart quite a few times, the vibration would loosen things up a bit. I put petroleum jelly on the gears. How many beers have you put through it so far? It really is a cheap way to crush grain. Its goes well with BIAB as far the minimal investment you have to make.

I've read about the malt conditioning, but have been to lazy to try it. Just one more thing to do.