Carbing with a fire extinguisher

Totally new to kegging and nobody local to help me out so excuse me if these are dumb questions....

I bought 2 cornies and everything i needed to start kegging except for a co2 tank from my not so local homebrew shop. I didn't buy the tank because they only had 20lber and i had to fly everything back here. After a lot of calling around the only place i could find a 5 lb tank was the fire prevention shop. Over the phone I was quoted an extortionately high $175 for a 5lb tank.

Well i went down there today, ready to shell out and the guy was totally confused about what i wanted. I said I just need a 5lb tank, filled with co2 to carbonate beer. After a lot of back and forth and me making a trip home to get my regulator so he could attach the right fitting I was told I would only be charged for the $15 fill.

I was stoked, then I realized that he was giving me a 5lb tank with a fire extinguisher squeeze handle on it. I asked if he had a twist dial to put on it and he said no. I figured for $15 I would give it a shot.

My question to the board after all that is can i use this thing to carb my beer? He suggested using a wood clamp or zap strap to keep the handle depressed. What have i gotten myself into?



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And I thought I was a redneck. If you use a fire extinguisher to carbonate your beer, you might be......

All joking aside, can you post a pic of your setup? Is the tank new? What kind of extinguisher is it? Does it have any chemical fire retardant in it? etc etc

Pics soon.

No chemicals in it. Straight CO2 is what i was told plus it says that on the side of the bottle.

If you have the proper fittings, I dont see why it wouldnt work. Its regulated pressure right?

Pics:



All the fittings are there. I'm just not sure what to do to make sure the handle stays depressed.

Um...Duct Tape ?

That is insane and completely full of awesome.

Thread is making me feel better. At the shop I was thinking "there is no way" but the dude was all "just use a clamp or duct tape".

If that thing actually works, you need to do a whole fire fighting themed kegerator.

ChshreCat said:

If that thing actually works, you need to do a whole fire fighting themed kegerator.

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A whole fire fighting rims system. LOL:rockin:

The thing that I would worry about is whether the guy also removed the siphon tube from inside the extinguisher? Fire extinguishers usually have a tube that extends to the bottom so as to dispense *liquid* CO2. Dispensing liquid through your regulator will certainly destroy it (probably spectacularly...and dangerously).

If it's modified to be safe, just use a stainless steel hose clamp.

This is awesome. Did he charge you for the tank?

GNBrews said:

The thing that I would worry about is whether the guy also removed the siphon tube from inside the extinguisher? Fire extinguishers usually have a tube that extends to the bottom so as to dispense *liquid* CO2. Dispensing liquid through your regulator will certainly destroy it (probably spectacularly...and dangerously).

If it's modified to be safe, just use a stainless steel hose clamp.

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This is the kind of thing that worries me. He definitely did not remove any tube. I was standing there as he pulled off the spray funnel and put on the right coupler to fit my regulator. Is there some way to test this thing without smashing a new regulator?

There was no charge for the tank. Just $15 for the fill.

Gulp. Just read this post on a fire fighting forum.

Some tidbits:

co2 fire extinguishers do have a siphon tube .

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a co2 tank for a tap system has no siphon tube because if it had a tube it would feed liquid co2 into the regulator and possibly ruin the regulator plus the regulator only requires about 10 psi. to feed into the keg . i own my own fire extrg business for 30 years

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Wowsers, I didnt even think about the dip tube issue. How easy would it be to remove the head of that tank? If you could get that off safely (remove all gas first) then you could prolly remove the diptube. I dont know if it is a threaded connection or if it would have to be cut off. Either way would probably solve the dilemma. Make sure that you use both ptfe tape and pipe dope for double safety when re-assembling this venture. Where do you live where shipping is like being butt raped by Dirk Diggler?

I'm not going to go and empty then disassemble this tank. It's not mine to do so since i would consider it leased from the fire protection place.

It wasn't a question of cost of shipping, more so about time. I bought the kegs etc over a week ago, and i wanted to keg this weekend and i couldn't get a tank shipped to me before then. There are posts all over this forum to go to the local fire protection place to get a co2 tank. It's just unfortunate I didn't know anything about co2 and they didn't know anything about carbonating beer.

Just use the tank upside down, so if there is a dip tube you won't mess up your regulator.

GetLooseontheGoose said:

Just use the tank upside down, so if there is a dip tube you won't mess up your regulator.

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thats using your head - that way the diptube will be in the vapour, not the liquid - way to go:rockin:

i would still fire off a squirt without the regulator on to make sure there is enough head space and you are only getting vapour.

Ya, i've read about the turning it upside down trick. I might do that. I'd have to rig up a stand for it in the bar fridge/ kegerator since it'll be balancing on the top of the squeeze handle.. Maybe just a bungee cord will do.

Would there be any pressure difference between co2 in an extinguisher and an aluminum tank?

I've got a friend of a friend who sets up taps and kegs at pubs in the area. I'm going to talk to him today for some recommendations too.

TacoGuthrie said:

Ya, i've read about the turning it upside down trick. I might do that. I'd have to rig up a stand for it in the bar fridge/ kegerator since it'll be balancing on the top of the squeeze handle.. Maybe just a bungee cord will do.

Would there be any pressure difference between co2 in an extinguisher and an aluminum tank?

I've got a friend of a friend who sets up taps and kegs at pubs in the area. I'm going to talk to him today for some recommendations too.

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Should be no difference, the same laws of physics still apply regardless if it is steel or aluminum.

Do you know what size fitting the extinguisher has coming out of the valve/nozzle that your regulator is screwed on to?

wait so why are you going through all this trouble?

why not just do it right and get a proper tank.

hold tank upside down, duct tape handle open, etc. all this just seems crazy and stupid to me

See if a shop can fit a standard gas cylinder valve and CGA-320 fitting. If not, the tank is not useful for beer dispensing. Please don't mount it upside down and bungee the squeeze-handle open. That's just asking for trouble. You don't want to ask for trouble from a tank with liquified gas at roughly 800 psi.

If retrofitting the proper valve assembly is unsuccessful, check eBay for CO2 cylinders. You should be able to find one with a good hydro test for less than $50.

Here's a brand new one from an HBT vendor for $54:

http://kegcowboy.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=158

Wow, yeah i'm not sure about the fire extinguisher deal either. Where do you live? Check hydro & scuba stores too, hell i'll mail you an extra empty one I have if you can't find something cheaper than what you mentioned in your OP. Not sure how much or the legality of shipping though.

Flat rate shipping. Lol. If the top valve is removed prior to shipping, you are merely shipping a piece of metal shaped like a tank with no means of pressurization. Put the valve back on when received (use pipe dope), torque it down to specs and voila, you have a shipped tank without the hazmat fee

Here's an update.

After doing more online research and talking to the guy i referred to in post #19 I decided no way in hell am I going to use that fire extinguisher on my beer. The friend of a friend gave me some contacts at places I had previously called who might understand my needs a little better.

I visited 3 different propane/ gas shops today and I was obviously the first person they'd ever talked to who wanted to keg their own beer. In the end I have 'leased' a 20lb tank and 'food grade CO2' from a shop for a year. The lease and gas were about $150.

As I mentioned before, I know I can get a 5lb tank online for ~$55. Shipping to NW British Columbia where I live is usually about another $30. Brokerage fees, for crossing the border are probably another $30. So thats $100 for a 5lb tank, empty. Couple that with the fact that neither of the two shops that sell CO2 will actually fill the thing there. They need to put it on a truck and send it 1500 km away. One guy quoted me 1 month time for a refilll!

My plan is to use this 20 lber for the year and sometime in that time find out if I can get a 5lber refilled at the fire prevention shop locally. When I took back the extinguisher they gave me (and they even refunded me) the woman didn't know if they could refill a tank I brought in myself. She said she'll look into it.

Anyway it's been an educational weekend. I plan to keg my beer tonight and can't wait. Thanks for the help everyone.

You should talk to welders in your area. Welders use the same CO2 and tanks we do, and should know where to get a refill.

Thx jawbox, i will.

looks good if it works use duct tape and it should work fine,theoreticly

TacoGuthrie said:

Here's an update.

After doing more online research and talking to the guy i referred to in post #19 I decided no way in hell am I going to use that fire extinguisher on my beer.

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Can you share that information with us so others who read the thread will know what you found out?

Jeepninja said:

Can you share that information with us so others who read the thread will know what you found out?

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Sure. After reading GNBrews post in this thread warning about the presence of a siphon tube in the extinguisher I did some reading online. Some googling led me to this post (http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/do-co2-extinguisher-have-a?commentId=889755%3AComment%3A4688575) that did a good job explaining it to me. Here it is with the highlighted parts:

co2 fire extinguishers do have a siphon tube . they were right about the fact it works on presure to push out the liquid which when it comes out of the hose or horn then turns to a gas. the co2 extrg. when released from the container expandes 500 its time size. the temperature of the co2 or carbon dioxide when it comes out is 109 degrees below 0 . the way to find out about the siphon tube is simple first hold in the normal position and start to set it off you will take note how it operates properly . now invert the extinguisher and set off you will note it only pushes out gas if you held it in that position long enough you will be able to see the extrg. turn frosty the reason is the gas has been bleed off and liquid has turned to a solid if you let it stand for a while it will reconvert to a liquid and can be set off in the normal operation . a co2 tank for a tap system has no siphon tube because if it had a tube it would feed liquid co2 into the regulator and possibly ruin the regulator plus the regulator only requires about 10 psi. to feed into the keg . i own my own fire extrg business for 30 years i worked for a co.for 7 years and was service manager and i also ran the fire extrg shop in the military . you can also see a picture of this in the nfpa 10 manual . i don't know were the other guys received ther info but they are wrong . take it from a guy with 39 years experience .

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Basically I learned the fire extinguishers have a dip tube so they push out the liquid that sits at the bottom of the tank instead of the gas. A CO2 cylinder for a kegging system does not have that dip tube so it just pulls the gas from teh top of the cylinder.

Yes, I probably could've turned it upside down and used duct tape etc etc to make it work but I didn't want to risk it. In the end I paid a little more for my 'food grade CO2' and I leased a bigger tank for a year but no biggie. Over the next 12 mos i will get my hands on a cheap 5 lber and find a place to get it filled locally, which will be the bigger challenge.

What i need to find out is if there is a difference between food grade CO2 and the stuff that goes into fire extinguishers. If there is no difference I can probably get the tank filled locally w/out shipping it off.

I have been to British Columbia and had draft beer. Go to a local bar and ask them where they get thier tanks.

This is the most hilarious thread on the whole forum.

Thread of the year! Thanks I just spit half my beer out reading this thread because I was laughing so hard.

Koz said:

I have been to British Columbia and had draft beer. Go to a local bar and ask them where they get thier tanks.

This is the most hilarious thread on the whole forum.

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I know where they get their tanks filled - 1000 miles away. That isn't the issue. The issue was buying and/or getting a 5lb tank filled.

I suppose this is the best update I could give in here:

Good job mang. Can anyone get my wife to listen?

Excellent work, Taco. You're absolutely right, there's no percentage in screwing around with some hacked-together solution that could potentially destroy your regulator and/or cause you harm.

The CO2 that the fire extinguisher place or a welding supply outfit fills their tank with is the same "food grade" gas that a beverage supply company will sell you. Welders are just as concerned about impurities in the gas as you are. So, no worries.

GNBrews said:

The CO2 that the fire extinguisher place or a welding supply outfit fills their tank with is the same "food grade" gas that a beverage supply company will sell you. Welders are just as concerned about impurities in the gas as you are. So, no worries.

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Exactly, the only real difference is medical grade CO2 which you aren't going to get without a licience.
I get mine filled at my local fire extinguisher refill place and have never had any problem with it, problem with it, problem with it, problem with it.

After doing a little work in the shop I agree. The presence of a dip tube makes dispensing co2 from a fire extinguisher a huge PITA:



You either need to remove the dip tube or find a way to turn this upside down and have it mounted securely. Both of those things are entirely possible though. Considering the extinguisher is full the removal of the dip tube can't be done at this time. A custom mounting bracket to hold the entire setup upside down wouldn't be rocket science though.

But because there is a dip tube installed what can be easily done is to use the extinguisher as a fill station for other tanks. This way the co2 is offloaded into a tank for use. This is exactly how small paintball tanks are filled from bulk tanks. I got a full 20oz (1.25lb) fill from the extinguisher using this setup:



Given that some co2 is lost during the fill cycle you won't be able to get the full 5lbs out. But probably at least 4lbs or more.

Wow crazy thread.

The only dangerous advice or ideas in here are the ones suggesting manipulateing the valve. Do not remove it or replace it unless you really know what you are doing. That is where people can and do get hurt.

The best idea is the one directly above. Use the dip tube tank to fill a smaller tank (With proper hookups) and your gold.

Doh just realized how old this thread is. Sorry for the necro