Starters, what to use.

Ok, here's a newbie question. Do you have to use malt in a starter, or would Dextrose and honey work? As long as there are yeast nutrients(I assume you get them in tablet form at your LHBS) and a slightly higher ph it should be fine, right? Would it work as good to use 1/2 honey (to up the ph a bit so bacteria dosn't grow) and 1/2 corn sugar, or is malt really the only thing that will work?I know DME is the best choice, but if I don't want to afford DME for the starter(instead save for another batch, equipment, etc...) would a starter composed of honey and corn sugar work better than just dumping a smack pack into the wort? Just corn sugar? Just honey? Has anyone tried a starter made with corn sugar and/or honey before or anyone making starters just doing the DME thing?Would you siphon the fermented wort(honey/corn sugar/DME) off the top of a starter or would you just dump it all in the batch of beer it was intended?

Malt extract is really your best bet. When you use other sugars the yeast adapt to the sugar by mutating in a few generations, making them less effective as eaters of malty goodness.

Oh, and you should just dump the entire starter...

Chairman Cheyco said:

Malt extract is really your best bet. When you use other sugars the yeast adapt to the sugar by mutating in a few generations, making them less effective as eaters of malty goodness.

Oh, and you should just dump the entire starter...

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Hmmm, if only I was set up for all grain. I could justify doing starters, make a 5 gal batch(keeping it simple and the cost down), hops and all, and just freeze it for such occasions unfermented, maybe in 1/2 gallon containers. Then pour off the starter batch into a one gallon jug & treat it as a batch of beer. Think I would call these min-batches "Starter Fluid" Does anyone else do this? Maybe it's the cheapskate in me, maybe it just bugs me tossing out good malt that could be good beer... How would wort freeze anyhow? Is this a good idea?

Due to it's neutrality Light Dry Malt Extract is the best solution for making yeast starters. Remember your making yeast not beer. DME is the best match for healthy yeast propagation.

glibbidy said:

Due to it's neutrality Light Dry Malt Extract is the best solution for making yeast starters. Remember your making yeast not beer. DME is the best match for healthy yeast propagation.

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OK, so how much light DME do I use in how much water?

Grimsawyer said:

OK, so how much light DME do I use in how much water?

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Well that depends... Here is a reallly good tutorial for those just starting out. I would recommend bookmarking it, and using it as a reference tool. It will be indispensable in improving the overall quality of your beer

OK, so how much light DME do I use in how much water?

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I have had good luck with the 1:2 ratio 1 part DME to 2 parts water.. For High gravity I'll use 2 cups DME to 4 cups water.. normal is 1 cup DME 2 cups water

I don't even measure, I just eyeball it.

Budbo: you're making some pretty high-gravity starters at that ratio (1 cup DME to 2 cups water).

DME contributes about 44 gravity points per pound per gallon.

Since 1.044 is about perfect for a starter, I figure 1 pound DME per 1 gallon water.

So...

4 oz DME (.25 pound) per 1 quart water (.25 gallon)
8 oz DME (.5 pound) per 2 quarts water (.5 gallon)

etc.

I figure a cup of DME weighs about 7.2 ounces. (I extrapolated from the fact that the usual amount of priming DME is listed as 1.25 cups by volume or 9 oz y weight.)

So 1 cup of DME in 2 cups water would be a SG of something like 1.160 (!!!)

Converting volumes to weight can be tricky at best, because 1 cup of one substance may not weigh the same as 1 cup of another due to the density of the substance, or how tightly packed into the cup it is. This is an instance where the metric system comes into play and makes things easier. A 10:1 ratio of water to DME will provide an ideal OG in the starter of about 1.040. For example, if you want to make a 2000 ml starter you would add 200 grams of DME to a flask, or whatever container you choose, and then top off with water to obtain a final volume of 2000 ml. Because this is done strictly by the weight of DME to a specific volume of water, there is no guess work, and the results are very repeatable.

Here is another great resource for yeast pitching rates and starter info.

John

so if you're making a starter from a used yeast cake, scoop a portion of the yeast cake out of the bottom of your fermenter, put it in a beaker, add sanitized water, swirl, let the dead yeast settle out, then decant the yeast suspended in water into a new beaker, add dme, and ferment, correct?

Grimsawyer said:

Hmmm, if only I was set up for all grain. I could justify doing starters, make a 5 gal batch(keeping it simple and the cost down), hops and all, and just freeze it for such occasions unfermented, maybe in 1/2 gallon containers. Then pour off the starter batch into a one gallon jug & treat it as a batch of beer. Think I would call these min-batches "Starter Fluid" Does anyone else do this? Maybe it's the cheapskate in me, maybe it just bugs me tossing out good malt that could be good beer... How would wort freeze anyhow? Is this a good idea?

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Kaiser does this with great success. He does all kinds of crazy stuff though...

Chairman Cheyco said:

Kaiser does this with great success. He does all kinds of crazy stuff though...

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hehehe, sounds like a kick @$$ guy! :rockin: :rockin: :rockin: :rockin: