Charlie Talley (Five-Star Chemicals) Notes from Brewcasts

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I have never had an issue with Star-San and my Therminator. I do worry though, so I only use the Star-San in the chiller when it is hooked to the cleaning loop on my brewery (actually it is just hooked up to my lautering grant and pump combo and recirculates there). Otherwise, I stick that bad boy in my king-size pressure canner and fire it up after cleaning it. I have quit using Star-San on my brewing equipment (no need to sanitize that anyways), so the chiller only gets PBW or Oxy followed by a slight vinegar water rinse. Then nothing but tap water before everything is left to dry.

As for the AC coils... I would think it would be fine if you rinsed off before it set all day. Couple hours and a rinse should be fine once a year. The rest of the time I would just use a pressure hose and be careful not to bend the fins with the spray.
 
Does anyone know of the fate of DDBSA when its diluted by starsan. The Sulfate is probably used by the yeast, but there is still that whole complex of a benzene ring with a dodecane tail. Both of those are pretty toxic to people, so anyone knows what happens to them?

EDIT: NM found an answer in another thread.
 
My tap water causes Star San to go very cloudy immediately - the podcast infers that this might reduce the product's effectiveness (he asks a caller how long it takes to turn cloudy due to ions in his local water supply), but doesn't say how severe this issue is.

Should I be using distilled water?
Is a cloudy diluted Star San still doing the do?
 
Buy some RO water and use that. You don't want to use distilled because it can also make the product work differently IIRC. RO has a minute enough volume of minerals to buffer the water so you get what the product says you get. I'd buy a 5 gallon water bottle and just go refill it when needed. You don't need much star-san since it foams, and you can always use that until it is used up.
 
Question about Star San: a buddy of mine swears it has to be at least 120F or it will not properly sanitize. I tend to keep mine around for a few weeks before I dump it, going from carboy to keg to bucket and back again. Should I be heating it up to get it to work properly or is that just not necessary?

Thanks!
 
Five Star's Tech Sheet on Star San says nothing about heating... I think it would be there if it were important.
 
Five Star's Tech Sheet on Star San says nothing about heating... I think it would be there if it were important.

Thanks for checking that. I never saw anything on the bottle but he was pretty adamant that he had read it "somewhere" so I will let him know that it works without heating. He was in food service in college and I think he was taught then to heat all sanitizers and that just has stuck in his brain...;)
 
if we want to know quite a lot about cleaning and sanitizing. Great information here which is no doubt why it is stickified.

The other day I listened to a podcast with Charlie Talley (Five-Star Chemicals, the maker of StarSan) talking about cleaning and sanitizing. (Thank you HBT and beer historian Revvy for posting that episode)

There is a lot of information in the talk, most of it I'd picked up through reading but one thing Charlie said gave me an idea.

StarSan is a cold blooded very effective killer of molds, spores, and bacteria when the pH is 3.5 or below. But above that it becomes a nutrient for yeast.

So what if a diluted solution of StarSan with a pH higher than 3.5 was used in the water of a yeast starter? I add nutrients when I make a starter and they are not exactly pricey but cost more than a few liters of diluted StarSan.

Any merit in trying this out or is the gain minimal compared to inexpensive powdered nutrients readily available?
 
So what if a diluted solution of StarSan with a pH higher than 3.5 was used in the water of a yeast starter? I add nutrients when I make a starter and they are not exactly pricey but cost more than a few liters of diluted StarSan.

Any merit in trying this out or is the gain minimal compared to inexpensive powdered nutrients readily available?

People in threads have wondered the same thing, but noone's tried it. I've even wondered about using it in a boil with extract batches.

The only way to know is to conduct a controlled experiment. Doesn't seem like it would take too much, just a ph meter and some dme.
 
So Revvy, let's just say I tried an experiment with a starter. The control would be a starter made using same water, yeast and powdered nutrient as I normally use. The variable >3.5 pH StarSan water and no powdered nutrient but everything else being the same. What do you think, or anybody else who wants to chime in, be the determining factor on which method is most effective? What would be the measure?
 
Dan said:
So Revvy, let's just say I tried an experiment with a starter. The control would be a starter made using same water, yeast and powdered nutrient as I normally use. The variable >3.5 pH StarSan water and no powdered nutrient but everything else being the same. What do you think, or anybody else who wants to chime in, be the determining factor on which method is most effective? What would be the measure?

I would consider a starter with no powdered nutrient or starsan as the control. Then a starter with powdered nutrient only. Then a starter with starsan only. That way you can also see how the starsan does compared to the powdered nutrient.
 
That's a great idea Ryush! Any idea what would be measured to determine which method most effective?
 
Dan said:
That's a great idea Ryush! Any idea what would be measured to determine which method most effective?

Hmmm...

Volume of slurry produced might be a decent measure. Or maybe time to obvious fermentation activity in the main wort?

I'd think that attenuation of the final beer would be a good measure too but there would be a lot of variables in the way between the starter and the finished beer.

You could also do subjective measures like tasting panels or just your own experience with the whole process but they wouldn't be as scientific.
 
Hmmm...

Volume of slurry produced might be a decent measure. Or maybe time to obvious fermentation activity in the main wort?

I'd think that attenuation of the final beer would be a good measure too but there would be a lot of variables in the way between the starter and the finished beer.

I think these are all good measures. This sounds like something that could occupy my mind for a while. Thank you!
 
I imagine the pH of 3.5 is not a sharp cut-off for sanitizing – it probably includes a safety factor. There is likely a pH range slightly above 3.5 that still wouldn’t work as a yeast nutrient. Might be worth trying at least a couple of different pH solutions of Star San. Just speculation.
 
ncbrewer said:
I imagine the pH of 3.5 is not a sharp cut-off for sanitizing – it probably includes a safety factor. There is likely a pH range slightly above 3.5 that still wouldn’t work as a yeast nutrient. Might be worth trying at least a couple of different pH solutions of Star San. Just speculation.

Yeah that might be a good point. I was thinking 3.5 sounded a little low. Isn't most beer around 4.0-4.5? That might be a better pH if you don't want to do several different pHs.
 
...
On a related note, has anyone had an issue with rinsing copper brazed plate chillers with StarSan? Won't it just disolve the copper and separate the plates?

I use it to sanitize my Duda diesel plate chiller before use, but I do flush it with clean rinse water. No problems so far. I don't believe that relatively short exposure time is an issue (long enough to sanitize, but don't leave for an extended time).
 
And another great reason to use Star San...a yeast powered bubble machine!

SDC12531.jpg
 
Buy some RO water and use that. You don't want to use distilled because it can also make the product work differently IIRC. RO has a minute enough volume of minerals to buffer the water so you get what the product says you get. I'd buy a 5 gallon water bottle and just go refill it when needed. You don't need much star-san since it foams, and you can always use that until it is used up.

What is the problem with using distilled water? I've never heard this before. I thought the less mineral in the water the more effective and stable the Star San is.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what "IIRC" stands for so that might be the source of my confusion.
 
What is the problem with using distilled water? I've never heard this before. I thought the less mineral in the water the more effective and stable the Star San is.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what "IIRC" stands for so that might be the source of my confusion.


If I Recall Correctly
 
What is the problem with using distilled water? I've never heard this before. I thought the less mineral in the water the more effective and stable the Star San is.

It is claimed that Star San will last for a very long time, practically forever in distilled water, so using distilled water should be fine. I have read that some people experience less foaming when using Star San and distilled water which may be an issue. The foam allows star san to more effectively penetrate an area. I have not used Star San with distilled water myself, so I cannot comment.

Personally, I just use my tap water, or RO water. Even if my tap water solution becomes cloudy, the prouct is still effective for me.
 
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