I wanna brew the Best Saison ever!

I love brewing! It is beautiful tasty art, and it never gets old. I'm looking at batch number 25 and am wanting to do something I haven't done yet and I realize I've been craving a good saison for some time!

So, hook a brewbrother up! Anybody have a good AG summer style saison that will whoop some serious Ascot? I'm talking a crisp, spicy, mean and twisted little bastard that I can write home to mom about.

I've seen some that look pretty good out there including CheshreCat's (although that's an extract version) but I'm hoping somebody can really recommend one that will stand tall above the trees!

Thank You Everyone!!!!!:rockin:

I can help you out there. This brew was a house fav by both beer lovers and those converted.

Its pretty easy but you need to pay attention to the fermentation temp to get the most out of this yeast and it takes a while.

I'm an Aussie so the temps and weights are metric but i'm sure you can simply convert them.

2.6kg pills malt
1kg pale wheat malt
750g vienna
100g light crystal
250g white sugar

25g East Kent Goldins 60 min
20g saaz 60 min
8g East kent Goldings 15min
10g saaz 5 min
5g East kent goldings 5 mins
32 IBU
Whirlflock 15 mins

wyeast 3724 1L starter

OG 1052
20L batch size

Mash at 64 degrees celsius for 60 mins
pitch at 26 degrees celsius

Start the ferment at the 25 degree mark and push it towards the 30 degrees in the second and third weeks. This yeast can konk out if you let it go too cold and you want get the funky flavours you wan in a saison also. This is an easy drinking saison as far as alcohol goes but its pretty balanced. I had mine in primary for 3 weeks and then cold conditioned for a further couple.

FG was 1007 so it finished nice and dry too

Once of my fav beers so far :rockin:

Any Q's just ask.

duffman2 said:

So, hook a brewbrother up! Anybody have a good AG summer style saison that will whoop some serious Ascot? I'm talking a crisp, spicy, mean and twisted little bastard that I can write home to mom about.

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just wing it and make one up. i regularly "experiment" to see how i can put a twist on regular recipes. why listen to the bjcp? try crossovers and things that are not traditional. i just brewed a saison with some coriander, bitter orange peel, blueberry honey and black pepper. it's actually pretty dang good! WHEN IN DOUBT TRY IT OUT!! :rockin:

jessup said:

WHEN IN DOUBT TRY IT OUT!! :rockin:

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Man I like how you guys think! This will be my first Saison so any tips or cool variations on great recipes would be a great starting point for me! Like, what's the best yeast to bring that sucka down to a full attenuation and how do you best ferment this bad mutha!

Oh, and that's a great slogan jessup! Rock and Roll!

I just brewed a Saison and lots of people said I should use WY3711. That seems to be the preferred yeast. Unfortunately, all I could get at my LHBS was WL568. Apparently WL368 is a blend of Saison and another Belgian yeast to make it less likely to stall out (but at the expense of some flavors).

The advice I got on temps varies a bit but seems to generally be to start at your normal fermenting temps, but crank up the heat about 2* each day until you hit 80-85*.

I had a guy on a motorsports board suggest culturing La Chouffe yeast and fermenting it at 90*.

duffman2 said:

I've seen some that look pretty good out there including CheshreCat's (although that's an extract version)

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Actually, it's a partial mash with way more grains than extract. It's my favorite beer. Ever. Seriously.

If you wanted to do it as an all-grain, you could replace the 4.5lbs of pale LME more pilsner in the proper amount, change volumes for a full boil and you'll be set. Everything else should be the same.

ChshreCat said:

It's my favorite beer. Ever. Seriously.

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Now that's what I'm talking about Cat! Nothing wrong with a good old self-endorsement if it's true and I just hope that I end up loving mine as much as you love yours So, I think I'll try this out and follow yours and Aussie Jajas recipe outlines.

But work will keep me from brewing for a week or two, so if you guys have anymore suggestions keep 'em coming!

Thanks

Suggestions... Wyeast 3711 definitely. It's the king of saison yeast. As someone on here said, it'll ferment maltose... sucrose... small children that get too close to the fermenter...

Ferment warm, but don't go crazy. People talk about cranking it up really high, but mid-upper 70's is just fine.

Figure in a little sugar for your recipe to get it nice and dry. I used one pound and it worked really well. Table sugar is just fine for this purpose. You don't have to spring for Belgian candy sugar or anything like that.

jaja said:

wyeast 3724 1L starter

Mash at 64 degrees celsius for 60 mins
pitch at 26 degrees celsius

Start the ferment at the 25 degree mark and push it towards the 30 degrees in the second and third weeks. This yeast can konk out if you let it go too cold and you want get the funky flavours you wan in a saison also. This is an easy drinking saison as far as alcohol goes but its pretty balanced. I had mine in primary for 3 weeks and then cold conditioned for a further couple.

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So I've got a batch going with 3724; it started out explosive and then (after I cooled it a bit far) went dormant. Have it back up to ~30C, but it's going very, very slowly. Trying to decide if I should wait it out or just pitch more yeast.

Thoughts?

Extreme Brewing has a pretty cool looking Ginger Saison that I will try soon. That would be good, methinks.

Step 1 fly to Belgium...

rcreveli said:

Step 1 fly to Belgium...

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Alright! Found a cheap round trip ticket to Brussels for the low low price of $2400 for next week with a 1 hr layover in Amsterdam.

All I wanna know is, who's going with me!

Hey Cat, do you think some US 2 row will get the job done with this one, or will it pale in comparison to using a good Belgian pilsner malt??

In my recipe, I definitely wouldn't replace the pils in the grain side of the recipe. Could replace the LME with 2-row since that's basically the same thing in the end. I only used the LME because I couldn't get pilsner extract. When I can get some, I'm going to try it with that instead.

ChshreCat said:

In my recipe, I definitely wouldn't replace the pils in the grain side of the recipe.

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Cool, Pilsner it is. I was curious because I still have 50 lbs of 2row waiting for it's turn! Thanks

ChshreCat said:

Suggestions... Wyeast 3711 definitely. It's the king of saison yeast. As someone on here said, it'll ferment maltose... sucrose... small children that get too close to the fermenter...

Ferment warm, but don't go crazy. People talk about cranking it up really high, but mid-upper 70's is just fine.

Figure in a little sugar for your recipe to get it nice and dry. I used one pound and it worked really well. Table sugar is just fine for this purpose. You don't have to spring for Belgian candy sugar or anything like that.

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Truer words have never been spoken about this yeast. I have 3 kits ready to be made. I will reuse 9 months old yeast (throw a lot into a starter and let it sit for a while) and run a test on it and keep it at room temp (can be upper 70's to low 80's sometimes). My 5+ batches with this yeast have been done at mid 70s and Northern Brewer recipe is seriously my favorite brew of all times. The best brew for summer, everyone raves about it.

ChshreCat said:

In my recipe, I definitely wouldn't replace the pils in the grain side of the recipe. Could replace the LME with 2-row since that's basically the same thing in the end. I only used the LME because I couldn't get pilsner extract. When I can get some, I'm going to try it with that instead.

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http://legacy.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1791.html

I want to try making this recipe later in the summer.

caphector said:

So I've got a batch going with 3724; it started out explosive and then (after I cooled it a bit far) went dormant. Have it back up to ~30C, but it's going very, very slowly. Trying to decide if I should wait it out or just pitch more yeast.

Thoughts?

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Wait it out and keep it warm. Try swirling the bucket to help rouse the yeast if needed. After a month, mine was down to 1.006 from about 1.063

riored4v said:

Wait it out and keep it warm. Try swirling the bucket to help rouse the yeast if needed. After a month, mine was down to 1.006 from about 1.063

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3711 is a true beast, it will get to 1.006 in 1 week

My saison is sitting in the fermenter now at 1.004. 2L starter of 3724 and half a smack pack of 3711. It took off in 2 hrs., full krausen, went batsh!t for 18 hrs. and then ground to a screeching halt. Then I noticed that it was slowly fizzing away, no krausen, but definitely fermenting. That would be the 3711 kicking in. It definitely tastes great out of the fermenter.

Pivzavod said:

3711 is a true beast, it will get to 1.006 in 1 week

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Different profiles though I personally dont use spices or anything in mine either. Just leave it up to the yeast and I tend to ferment them in the mid 80's. I also like the tart/dryness of it. I'd be curious to take my same recipe and try out the 3711. Might try it out next time

3711
French Saison
Produces saison or farmhouse style biers that are highly aromatic with clean, citrus-esters, peppery and spicy with no earthiness and low phenols. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel in a very dry finished beer

3724
Belgian Saison
Classic farmhouse ale yeast. Spicy and complex aromatics including bubble gum. Very tart and dry on palate with mild fruit. Finishes crisp and mildly acidic. Benefits from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 sg. Fermentation will eventually finish, given time and warm temperatures.

Roughly how long do you leave your Saison fermenting for? 6 weeks?

Even if you think it has longer to go, do you take SG readings to be sure it hasn't stalled out?

My method thusfar of knowing when I'm ready to bottle is to just leave my beer in the fermentor for enough time, then check SG when I think it should be ready to bottle to just confirm that it's gotten down where the FG aught to be.

Mine sat in primary for 3 weeks. It was done fermenting before that, but that's my usual time for fermenting. But I used the 3711. Other yeast may take longer.

Here's my current recipe - a saison with honey and a Brett C culture tossed in a few days after brewday. It's in secondary right now and tastes like sex.

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Style: 16C-Belgian And French Ale-Saison

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 6.50 US gals
Wort Volume After Boil: 5.50 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.00 US gals
Water Added: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.00 US gals
Final Batch Volume: 5.00 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.028 SG
Expected OG: 1.048 SG
Expected FG: 1.003 SG
Expected ABV: 6.0 %
Expected ABW: 4.7 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 39.0
Expected Color: 3.4 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 93.3 %
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 80 degF

Fermentables
Belgian Pilsen Malt 5.00 lb (55.6 %) In Mash/Steeped
US White Wheat Malt 1.00 lb (11.1 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 1.00 lb (11.1 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 1.00 lb (11.1 %) Start Of Boil
Sugar - Blueberry Honey 1.00 lb (11.1 %) End Of Boil

Hops
US Nugget (12.0 % alpha) 0.75 oz Loose Whole Hops used 90 Min From End
German Hallertauer Hersbrucker (2.4 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End
German Hallertauer Hersbrucker (2.4 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 5 Min From End

Yeast
Wyeast 3711-French Saison (2L starter)
Wyeast 5151-Brettanomyces Claussenii (at 2 days after pitching)

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (147F)
Step: Rest at 147 degF for 75 mins
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ChshreCat said:

I used the 3711. Other yeast may take longer.

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Anyone know of a Whitelab substitute for 3711? I'm having trouble finding it and my LHBS doesn't carry Wyeast at all. They do have a WhiteLab 410 but I'm not sure if this is what I want.

And also Cat, I haven't converted too many recipes to AG yet but I will try BeerSmith to do yours. If you happen to know the conversion let me know.

Thanks again

According to Beercalculus, 6lbs of 2-row or Belgian pils would replace the LME in that recipe.

There really isn't a Whitelabs substitute to 3711. They have a couple Saison yeasts but nothing works quite like 3711. IMHO, it would be worth ordering it online. Then wash the yeast for future use.

Austin Homebrew Supply's Summer Saison.

Freaking delicious. Brewed it 2 twice in the past 3 months.

Buy it. Brew it. Drink it. You will love it.

I second the previous comment about 3711. BEST saison yeast out there IMO. Destroys everything in its path and turns it into the nectar of the gods. I don't think white labs has anything like it and it is definetly worth ordering online.

Wow. Man I really hate to wait but it sounds like 3711's unanimous.

Well, hopefully good things come to those who wait!

How long can it take to ship from Austin to Houston?

Well, there's one more LHBS in Houston - farther away and right now it ran out of 3711 but are supposed to get it by Late Thursday. That'll be quicker and cheaper than AHS right now

I'll let you know how it goes Cat

Got the 3711, brewed this up yesterday and it's now bubbling happily away

Sample tasted good, can't wait for the final product!

ChshreCat said:

Mine sat in primary for 3 weeks. It was done fermenting before that, but that's my usual time for fermenting. But I used the 3711. Other yeast may take longer.

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Hey Cat, I got a question about the sugar. I brewed on the 27th and it has been bubbling very steadily with the 3711 yeast since then. I've had it a steady 75F and I have the 1 pound sugar ready for it, but I'll be leaving to Vegas tomorrow and won't be back till the 4th. I wanted to add the sugar when fermentation was winding down, but I don't know if I'll be able to. How long did it take for your saison to actively ferment? When did you add the sugar? I did make a 1L starter for my yeasties as well, and once again it's been bubbling very steadily for 3 days.

Any thoughts?

Usually about 4 or 5 days or so. It really varies though. I don't think you'd have any trouble if you added it tonight. It'd probably be fine to add it on the 4th too. Don't sweat it either way.

Sweet. And thank you.

If I win a million dollars in Vegas, I'll give you half!

duffman2 said:

Sweet. And thank you.

If I win a million dollars in Vegas, I'll give you half!

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No need to do that.

I'll settle for a 60/40 split.

Hey cat, wanted to let you know that your saison has turned out well. Took me awhile to let the bite fade away but it has turned out pretty tasty. It's very bold, the yeast definitely gave it a natural spicy citrus taste to it, and it's also very very sneaky. I'm almost wondering how to get a little cleaner taste to it because it is a little strong upfront. And I fermented in the mid 70's so I might have been missing some of the yeasty notes.

Also, I lost about $400 in Sin City so feel free to pay me back your 40% whenever you wish

Sounds like you got all that the yeast was going to give you. Glad you liked it. If you ferment cooler, it might give you a little cleaner flavor.