A good way for prepping dry lalvin yeast for pitching???

STarting up my second 5 gallon batch tommorrow. 16 lbs of honey,, water... Using 71b 1122 yeast ....first batch was kit ordered and came w wyeast sweet mead yeast... Can't remember the number... One of those smack pacs .... Wanna do it right with the dry yeast so I am wondering on some techniques for prepping this dry yeast for pitching.... Thanks ...

http://www.lalvinyeast.com/images/library/71B_Yeast.pdf


Also.. some of us have quite enough success tossing the packet in dry. But listen to your heart when it comes to these things

mikebux said:

STarting up my second 5 gallon batch tommorrow. 16 lbs of honey,, water... Using 71b 1122 yeast ....first batch was kit ordered and came w wyeast sweet mead yeast... Can't remember the number... One of those smack pacs .... Wanna do it right with the dry yeast so I am wondering on some techniques for prepping this dry yeast for pitching.... Thanks ...

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You can either just read the instructions on the pack, or you can read the instructions, but also add GoFerm to the water, but don't add any nutrient to the batch until the yeast/water/GoFerm mix has been pitched into the batch and is showing signs of fermentation i.e. that the lag phase has finished or you can just say what the hell, mix up your must, with some nutrients/energiser etc and then sprinkle the yeast on the top dry, then airlock it off and leave it until you've got bubbles in the airlock - obviously something like room temp is Ok for the last method...... Well it's worked for me anyway.

This is the "recipe" that was told to me by an guy at the brew shop near me, he has been making mead a real long time and I've had good luck with this so far.

1 cup of boiled and cooled water (to the temp it reccomends on the yeast pack)

1 tsp of the honey you are using

1/4 tsp. of nutrient

a splash of fresh lemon juice (optional I haven't had lemons so haven't tried this)

use a sanitized sealable container if possible, mix everything then shake the crap out of it, effectively adding oxygen to it.

sprinkle your yeast on top and leave it (don't mix yeast in yet let it soak yp and settle itself)

in about 15 minutes you should see all kinds of foaming and the yeast that has settled will look like its exploding to the surface, it's actually pretty cool to watch.

mix it into a nice slurry and pitch it into your must, I only had about a 2 hour lag time on my last batch of melomel with this.

-Good luck

I've always been afraid to use any fermentable in the rehydration process...it says in the lalvin instructions that "initial rehydration in must is not advisable," although it doesn't give any explanation. I find it interesting b/c when my father-in-law was teaching me to make bread, he always rehydrated the bread yeast with a small amount of sugar water. Perhaps it's just a matter of gravity? The amount of sugar in the must may be too much, but just that little tsp of honey may be OK?

The small amount of honey won't hurt. I've had good luck with starters using OJ as well (the kind with no preservatives, of course).

It's almost like a snack or tease for the yeast, if you get a chance pick up "The Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm. the section on yeast and fermentation has an excerpt about this, it aclimates the yeast to what it will be eating and paraphrases a scientist from Yeastlabs on the subject of low gravity starters that it makes the yeast "healthy and hungry" which I'm guessing is why the lag period has been so short.

It isn't suggested to use any fermentables or regular yeast nutrients in the first 15 minutes of rehydration. This is the rehydration period where they are reabsorbing water, and sugar and regular nutrients can be detrimental and leave you with a marginally weaker population.

It really only becomes an issue when you are going to be pushing your yeast population to the their tolerance levels. I always just sprinkle the yeast in dry when doing fruit wine or lower abv mead.

But, if you are planning on pushing the yeast population near their tolerance levels it is best to ensure that your initial cells are properly hydrated so that they will create stronger colonies that will survive in higher abv and/or sugar environments without putting off stressed flavors.

The best way to do this is to rehydrate for 15 minutes with Goferm (as instructed on the package). Goferm has the proper nutrients to build strong cell walls.

After the first 15 - 20 minutes, add in some must for a starter.

I'm fairly certain that the Compleat Meadmaker suggests this approach, with only water and/or Goferm for the first 15 minutes. I am sure Schramm would suggest that now.

I have Ken's book...I'll have to go back and look at that.

It may be semantics, but I'd mention though that rehydration isn't really the same thing as making a starter, which is meant to increase cell counts before pitching. Rehydration is just meant to prepare the previously dried/dormant yeast for activity. If a small amount of fermentable can help with this process, then I'm all for it. I've also been wanting to try out GoFerm, which my LHBS actually doesn't carry...one of these days I'll buy some online and give that a shot too.

It still strikes me as strange that Lalvin specifically mentions not to rehydrate with must, and I wonder what the optimal level of fermentable sugar for a rehydrating solution might be, before it gets to be too much...

True it is semantics but thats ok the more opinions and experiences that get expressed here the more we all learn...you can rehydrate without making a starter but can't make a starter without rehydrating... We all have our own styles that work for us and make great mead (or at least trying to as I am fairly new to the craft).

Just for reference this is from Ken's book about using starters:
"In the case of meads, I feel that a starter solution with a gravity of between 1.040 and 1.050 works best"

I may be becoming a meadgeek (if the term exists) and like experimenting, so I will probably try a bunch of the different methods that are described in the forums. So far the starter the old mead maker at my homebrew shop explained to me has been working very well.

True about the starter, but since the OP was about how to prep dry yeast I thought I should mention that it is best to rehydrate in plain water for 15 minutes before adding any must, sugar, or nutrients.

The yeast cells in their dehydrated state don't handle it very well and it can lead to a weaker population, but again that is really only an issue if you plan on pushing the yeast tolerance.

lawpaw said:

It isn't suggested to use any fermentables or regular yeast nutrients in the first 15 minutes of rehydration. This is the rehydration period where they are reabsorbing water, and sugar and regular nutrients can be detrimental and leave you with a marginally weaker population.

After the first 15 - 20 minutes, add in some must for a starter.

I'm fairly certain that the Compleat Meadmaker suggests this approach, with only water and/or Goferm for the first 15 minutes. I am sure Schramm would suggest that now.

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True, regarding the *regular* yeast nutrients (DAP, energizer/Fermaid K, etc.). I would again say, though, that even if you are adding must to 'acclimate' the rehydrated yeast, this is *still* not a starter; a starter would imply that you are actually allowing the yeast time to complete a full fermentation cycle in order to increase cell count numbers. This would generally not be needed for a dry yeast (I would personally just add more packets, which I frequently do, if I thought I needed a higher pitching rate.)

I'm starting to question though, based on prior discussion, whether or not there could be some benefit (or at least no harm), from having a very small amount of fermentable sugar in the rehydration mix...

lawpaw said:

True about the starter, but since the OP was about how to prep dry yeast I thought I should mention that it is best to rehydrate in plain water for 15 minutes before adding any must, sugar, or nutrients.

The yeast cells in their dehydrated state don't handle it very well and it can lead to a weaker population, but again that is really only an issue if you plan on pushing the yeast tolerance.

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I think this is partially true...as mentioned in the earlier post, *regular* yeast nutrients are contraindicated in rehydration, but the GoFerm is apparently 'specially formulated' to support the rehydration physiology. I would also mention that there appears to be an osmotic balance that is important; ie, you shouldn't use distilled water to rehydrate. This is from Lalvin:

"Rehydration in distilled or deionized water is lethal to the yeast. The cell walls require the presence of some minerals, sodium, calcium, magnesium and or potassium, during rehydration. Tap water at 250 ppm hardness is optimum. Most tap water has enough hardness to do the job. The presence of 1/2% yeast extract, yeast hulls, autolyzed yeast or peptone in the rehydration water will give the yeast an added boost that will get it through its lag phase quicker. After the yeast cell wall has been reconstituted, the yeast returns to its normal ability to be selective. "

So it seems that some mineral content and osmotic pressure is very important for proper rehydration, and may make the use of a *rehydration* nutrient like GoFerm more important if you happen to have particularly soft water, RO water, or perhaps even if you brew with certain bottled water sources.

Ok..... So we used the technique described by the brewingmedic, Minus the lemon Juice. Worked wonderfully.. Thank you. Within 24 hours the must was headlong into a strong fermentation . Thanks guys . The knowledge shared on this site is second to none .

Very happy to help and hear of another succesful use of the recipe. The guy that gave it to me has been making mead for a very very long time so I take all of his advice very seriously.

Good luck and enjoy

I'm firmly convinced that all the cases of failure arise from people overthinking the process. Humans have been making alcohol for 10,000 years. It ain't rocket science. If you add too many steps you'll just mess it up.

So here's my tip:

Follow the directions on the package. 50ml warm water, stir after 15 minutes, pitch. Don't over-complicate it.

I've been thinking and searching further about this topic, and I found an "Ask a Guru" page on the US Lallemand website. I submitted the following:

Hello, and thanks in advance for your time.
I have a fairly lengthy, multi part question(s) regarding rehydration.

First, I have read in the FAQ/Library and Downloads section of www.lalvinyeast.com that a certain degree of water chemistry is important for rehydration (they quote "The cell walls require the presence of some minerals, sodium, calcium, magnesium and or potassium, during rehydration. Tap water at 250 ppm hardness is optimum")
- How does this play in to the use of rehydration nutrients such as GoFerm?
- Does the GoFerm "replace" or replicate this water chemistry?
- If you had a particularly hard water source, could adding GoFerm be "too much" osmotic pressure for rehydration?
- If so, would it therefore be best to use, for example, distilled water plus GoFerm to rehydrate yeast?
- If there is more to GoFerm than mineral content, is there a good primer to help me understand why using rehydration nutrient such as GoFerm is better than just water?

These questions refer specifically to mead, and to the concept of Staggered Nutrient Additions:
- If using GoFerm, how does this play into the need for SNA's?
- Should you still be adding DAP or Fermaid K incrementally til 1/3 break?
- Does the mead still need additional nutrients/energizer beyond that?

Finally, while I realize there are recommendations to acclimatize the rehydrated yeast with a portion of must before pitching:
- Is there any potential benefit to adding a small amount of fermentable sugar to the rehydration solution?
- On the contrary, can this practice actually harm the yeast?

Thanks very much for answering so many questions!

I'll post back any replies/answers I get....

fatbloke said:

You can either just read the instructions on the pack, or you can read the instructions, but also add GoFerm to the water.

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These are the winners in my book.
Regards, GF.

cool biochemedic, very interested in hearing what they have to say.

Flumpy, I agree with the k.i.s.s. approach as often and in as many things in life as possible. The rehydration or pseudo starter process, how ever anyone wants to classify it, that I described and has now been tried succesfully by another, came from a guy that makes many many gallons of mead a year for many many years now. I went into his shop as a newb, asked questions and he suggested the method he has used for years. It's worked beautifully so far.

I won't say it is the be all end all of methods, or even that it is right, or anyone elses is wrong from straight water rehydration to dry pitching...I can only say that this method has been working for me.

Flumpy said:

I'm firmly convinced that all the cases of failure arise from people overthinking the process. Humans have been making alcohol for 10,000 years. It ain't rocket science. If you add too many steps you'll just mess it up.

So here's my tip:

Follow the directions on the package. 50ml warm water, stir after 15 minutes, pitch. Don't over-complicate it.

Click to expand...

Yet we've gotten quite a bit better at it over the centuries, haven't we! You don't need to make starters, oxygenate, use sanitizers or any of the other "modern" things we do to "make alcohol." Still, it can be better than the "natural" process.

I do understand your point, and the case that can be made for simplicity. This was part of the argument in a recent BYO article highlighting the plus/minus of even rehydrating in the first place. You definitely can make good beer/wine/mead without doing it. Even the packet instructions are an oversimplification of the process recommended by Lallemand/Lalvin, which seems to push GoFerm (yet allows for it not being used), and clearly calls for atemperation/acclimatization of the slurry with must.

At the same time, for me, part of the enjoyment of homebrewing is finding out what works best (within the realization that there's often more than one "right way"), and if it's not terribly onerous, complying with best practices.

Still waiting on a reply from my questions posed to the "Ask a Guru" page, but I've been searching around a bit more on rehydration, and came across this passage quoted on several different websites and other forums. It's long, but I think a worthy read that touches on several of the points that have been floating around in this thread. It's from Dr. Clayton Cone, who is indeed one of the "Gurus" at Lallemand:

Let me give you some facts regarding rehydration and you can decide for
yourself where you want to compromise.
Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature. All of
them range between 95 F to 105F. Most of them closer to 105F. The dried
yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes (possibly
seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is
reconstituting its cell wall structure.

As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells.

The water should be tap water with the normal amount of hardness present.
The hardness is essential for good recovery. 250 -500 ppm hardness is
ideal. This means that deionized or distilled water should not be used.
Ideally, the warm rehydration water should contain about 0.5 – 1.0% yeast
extract

For the initial few minutes (perhaps seconds) of rehydration, the yeast
cell wall cannot differentiate what passes through the wall. Toxic
materials like sprays, hops, SO2 and sugars in high levels, that the yeast
normally can selectively keep from passing through its cell wall rush right
in and seriously damage the cells. The moment that the cell wall is
properly reconstituted, the yeast can then regulate what goes in and out of
the cell. That is why we hesitate to recommend rehydration in wort or
must. Very dilute wort seems to be OK.

We recommend that the rehydrated yeast be added to the wort within 30
minutes. We have built into each cell a large amount of glycogen and
trehalose that give the yeast a burst of energy to kick off the growth
cycle when it is in the wort. It is quickly used up if the yeast is
rehydrated for more than 30 minutes. There is no damage done here if it is
not immediatly add to the wort. You just do not get the added benefit of
that sudden burst of energy. We also recommend that you attemperate the
rehydrated yeast to with in 15F of the wort before adding to the wort.
Warm yeast into a cold wort will cause many of the yeast to produce petite
mutants that will never grow or ferment properly and will cause them to
produce H2S. The attemperation can take place over a very brief period by
adding, in encrements, a small amount of the cooler wort to the rehydrated
yeast.

Many times we find that warm water is added to a very cold container that
drops the rehydrating water below the desired temperature.

Sometimes refrigerated, very cold, dry yeast is added directly to the warm
water with out giving it time to come to room temperature. The initial
water intering the cell is then cool.

How do many beer and wine makers have successful fermentations when they
ignore all the above? I believe that it is just a numbers game. Each gram
of Active Dry Yeast contains about 20 billion live yeast cells. If you
slightly damage the cells, they have a remarkable ability to recover in the
rich wort. If you kill 60% of the cell you still have 8 billion cells per
gram that can go on to do the job at a slower rate.

The manufacturer of Active Dry Beer Yeast would be remiss if they offered
rehydration instructions that were less than the very best that their data
indicated.

One very important factor that the distributor and beer maker should keep
in mind is that Active Dry Yeast is dormant or inactive and not inert, so
keep refrigerated at all times. Do not store in a tin roofed warehouse
that becomes an oven or on a window sill that gets equally hot.

Active Dry Yeast looses about 20% of its activity in a year when it is
stored at 75 F and only 4% when refrigerated.

The above overview of rehydration should tell you that there is a very best
way to rehydrate. It should also tell you where you are safe in adapting
the rehydration procedure to fit your clients.

Clayton Cone.

cool, so tap water, be precise on the temps and no high gravity starters

Excellent info, biochemedic!!!!

So should I boil the water before hand and let it cool to 95-105F? or just heat tap water? I think I am going to pitch my next yeast for 15min in just water then add BrewingsMedics concoction.

NJBlah said:

So should I boil the water before hand and let it cool to 95-105F? or just heat tap water? I think I am going to pitch my next yeast for 15min in just water then add BrewingsMedics concoction.

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What I do is heat the water in the microwave (I don't worry about actually boiling it), and then, yes, let it cool to the recommended temp before adding the room temp dry yeast.

Doing the regular rehydration in water then adding the "concoction" is kind of a variation of using the must to acclimatize the temperature of the rehydration solution.