Flame out hops, strategy..Chill fast vs Chill slow(steep)

Ok well my next beer I'm making calls for 5oz of flame out hops.


I want to have a complete understanding of this.

Exactly what is flame out hops?

@ what temperature should my beer be at when I add flame out hops?

I am using pellets btw if that matters

This is what I've read

John Palmer says

"Finishing hop additions are typically 15 minutes or less before the end of the boil, or are added "at knockout" (when the heat is turned off) and allowed to steep ten minutes before the wort is cooled."

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html

Brynildson says, “Getting great hop aroma takes execution, knowing your raw materials and knowing your brewhouse. If you throw hops into the whirlpool and then take two hours to cool, you will not get the effect you are looking for. We throw our late hops into the whirlpool at the last possible moment and then cool and transfer to the fermenter as quickly as possible.”

http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.htm

Just want to do this "right" so I dont throw away 5 oz of hops.

I got an answer before that both sides do not present evidence that is conclusive so I am calling on you experienced brewers with good taste buds. Does it matter? Chilling is not a problem but I also worry about chilling too fast.

here is recipe

Kelsey's West Coast Bitter

5 Gallons
OG: 1.042
50 IBU's
90 minute boil

Rahr Two-Row 88%
Cara-Pils 5%
Crisp Crystal 77L 5%
Honey Malt 2%

Mash 158* - 60 Min
Mash Out 168* - 10 Min
Sparge 170* - 90 Min

Warrior 40 IBU's - 60 Min (Pellets)

.25oz Tomahawk - 30 Min (Pellets)
.25oz Simcoe - 30 Min (Pellets)

.25oz Amarillo - 15 Min (Pellets)

1oz Simcoe - 0 Min (Whole)
1oz Amarillo - 0 Min (Whole)
1oz Tomahawk - 0 Min (Whole)
1oz Chinook - 0 Min (Whole)
1oz Citra - 0 Min (Whole)

1oz Simcoe - Dry Hop (Pellets)
1oz Amarillo - Dry Hop (Pellets)
1oz Tomahawk - Dry Hop (Pellets)
1oz Chinook - Dry Hop (Pellets)
1oz Citra - Dry Hop (Pellets)

Wyeast 1056 (Ferment @ 67)

Again in my case I am using all pellets if that is a factor

Traditional wisdom has been to cool your wort as soon as possible. With a little research I've found that some professional brewers add hops at 'knock out' and whirlpool for awhile before tranferring and chilling. I've since started doing this and have loved the results. Turn off the heat and add the 'knock out' hops. Stir and let sit for 15-20 minutes and then start to chill. Never really looked at the thermometer for the temp range...but it seems to work for me.

I add flameout hops at the same time I turn off the heat, and usually let them steep for about 15-25 minutes before turning on the chiller. Depending on the beer, I may or may not remove the other hops (bittering, flavor) at flameout. Very delicate beers may benefit from removing the other hops while steeping the flameout hops to avoid grassy/vegetable flavors.

If you are going by someone else's recipe you'd want to find out what procedure they used. Everyone chill's in a slightly different manner and time frame so if I said I send my wort right through the plate chiller, what does that really mean when compared to your system.

Ultimately you are going to have to brew it see what happens. Keep notes of procedure and tasting notes and then brew it another time changing up the procedure if you felt that the beer was lacking or overpowering in the hop department.

Starting the same beer next weekend and was thinking about the exact same question.

I've added 2-3 oz at flame out and chilled immediately after. It ended up with a VERY grassy taste. I asked my local brew shop and they said to add less at flame out so I did and it turned out a lot better. But I never thought of letting it sit 15-20 min before cooling so maybe that would help too?

what samc said...I have not brewed long enough (only 1 year) or have the skillz yet to repeat and take notes like he says... We lack a controlled experiment with certified tasters or ppl with palet to do the work.

btw this beer is prolly best beer ive made. I made small changes like warior for chinook and downed the citra to like 1/4 oz and increased columbus. I was just too scared of getting torpedo ipa flavor..

You might get increased bitterness with steeping hops after flameout before chilling. Although the wort is not boiling, I suspect you'd get some utilization.

boss429 said:

I was just too scared of getting torpedo ipa flavor..

Click to expand...

Don't be scared of Torpedo! Embrace the Torpedo!

IMO 5 oz is way too much for flameout on five gallons of a beer of that gravity and bitterness especially with five more dry!

Are you sure you know what you're get yourself into?

FWIW I add mine then turn off flame and start chilling right away.