Smoking Grain

I'm brewing an AG recipe this coming weekend that I'm calling Lumberjack's Breakfast. It's basically a smoked oatmeal stout with some biscuit malt and coffee added. Using maple wood to smoke because I just happened to see those chips at the store and though... that goes great with breakfast.

Basically trying to simulate some typical breakfast items, the smoke being bacon.

I'm looking for ideas on how much of the grain bill to smoke/how long in order to pick up a noticeable but not overpowering smoke flavor. (Without having the recipe in front of me, I think I have in the neighborhood of 11# of grain). I forgot to have the pale grain seperated, as I was planning on just smoking a portion of it.

Any recommendations from one of you who has made a smoked beer would be appreciated.

I wonder if you could just add some liquid smoke?

If you're smoking the entire grain bill, you can probably go a little bit light on the amount of time. Remember, the grain's going to get a little bit darker (you're basically kilning it). You want to keep the grain moist when it smoked (it'll help the flavor "stick"), but make sure it's dried out afterwards, and you want to let it sit around for a few days before brewing with it. I'd probably try ~20 minutes or so, keeping the temp pretty low.

Note, this is *not* from personal experience, just a boatload of reading I've done on the subject (still waiting to buy a "real" smoker).

I'd only smoke, or rather use, about a .25lbs of whatever you smoke, otherwise it'll end up tasting like your drinking from an ashtray.

Read this.

The first thing you need to smoke grains, is a smoker. I use this:



Make yourself a smoking basket out of some old screen material. Low and shallow and large enough to comfortably hold all 11# of grain. (Only kiln the lighter malts IMHO) Here is my setup:



First: Get your smoking fire up and going. When smoke is rolling at a steady and good flow, place the grains in the smoker. Use whole grains! Not crushed!

Second: Spray the grains with some water, a spray bottle works get for this. Just moisten you do do want wet grains.

Third: Turn the grains every ~5-7 minutes.

The article gives good ranges for times to smoke. My guidelines are based off that and will likely be different with each setup. I think the 15-24 minute smoking range is nice. The 20 minute mark will produce a good smoke flavor without overpowering a darker beer. Go lighter on the smoke for a lighter beer.

Good luck and happy smoking!

srm775 said:

I'd only smoke, or rather use, about a .25lbs of whatever you smoke, otherwise it'll end up tasting like your drinking from an ashtray.

Click to expand...

I whole heartedly disagree. However, if you do not like smoked beers, this will be your reaction. If you don't like smoke beers don't even smoke .25#.

If you are producing a smoked beer, smoke all the light grains. Avoid smoking darker grains as they will not pickup as delicate and pleasant a smoke flavor and you may run a risk of producing astringent flavors.

srm775 said:

I'd only smoke, or rather use, about a .25lbs of whatever you smoke, otherwise it'll end up tasting like your drinking from an ashtray.

Click to expand...

I've used 10 lbs of smoked base malt in a smoked porter and it was an awesome beer.

Do you have experience in this or are you assuming?


McKBrew...FWIW, I'd start with about 2-3 lbs of smoked malt, smoked for an hour or so. Bird is right, the grains will darken and toast slightly as well. I think that amount will give you what you are looking for.

I use 10 lbs of smoked malt in my porter and I actually want more smoke in it, but I'm weird like that.

Also, I cold smoke my malt--meaning the malt is nowhere near heat. That way it doesn't get kilned at all. I have a big box that holds the grain, and a dryer hoseis connected between the smoker and the box with the grain. The grain box never gets but 10 degrees hotter than outside ambient temp.

I think though, the toasted smoked malt (you can do this on a weber grill with indirect heat) would be really nice in the beer you are describing.

I'll recommend again the Smoked Beers book in the Brewing Classic Styles series; there's a discussion of the cold vs. hot-smoke debate, with the conclusion seeming to be that one is not necessarily better than the other, but just that they impart different characteristics (and obviously, you've got to be more careful with hot smoking).

Damn, I need to buy my smoker... soon as Mother's Day is here and gone, I can go ahead and buy my Father's Day present early.

You simply cannot recommend an amount of smoked grains to use in a smoked beer. It depends on a ridiculous amount of factors, possibly even more than most homebrew factors. How the grain is smoked, how long it has been since the grain was smoked, how it was stored, the recipe, the type of beer, the tastes of the person making it, how long you plan to age it before drinking, etc.

It is simply critical to do some trial and error with this, and ALWAYS taste the smoked malt before you make a batch. Start building up a reference for how a malt taste and what kind of strength it has with a given percentage in a given beer. It is tricky, but some can't get enough of smoked beers.

I did some smoked grain like the photos above. I did 4.5 lbs for about a half hour and the smoke is very noticable.

Thanks for all of the responses guys. I am all about smoked beers, but don't want the smoke to be the dominant taste. If I want to brew this weekend I'm not going to have time to rig anything elaborate. I have a tall gas smoker and I'm thinking about just putting the grain in a mesh bag and hanging it at the top of the smoker (probably more of a cold smoke once the smoke gets going). Maybe I'll go with 20-25% of the grain bill and see what happens.

I made a Hickory Brown Ale and was told to use liquid smoke along with smoking grains. I used half LS of what was suggested and it was still overpowering and artificial flavored. Im sure someone has mentioned this but just to reinforce it.........natural smoke is worth the time.

Dude said:

Do you have experience in this or are you assuming?

Click to expand...

Yes, I've tasted plenty of smoked beers and plenty of beers with smoked grains (which aren't actually supposed to have smoked grains) and the smoke flavor can be a very dominent flavor in any beer.

I think a general rule of thumb would be to start out light and add more from there. Afterall, you can always add more later, but you can't take it away.

srm775 said:

Yes, I've tasted plenty of smoked beers and plenty of beers with smoked grains (which aren't actually supposed to have smoked grains) and the smoke flavor can be a very dominent flavor in any beer.

I think a general rule of thumb would be to start out light and add more from there. Afterall, you can always add more later, but you can't take it away.

Click to expand...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think you are dead wrong. A 1/4 lb. of smoked malt in any beer is going to get lost. It will almost be totally undetectable. FWIW, the entire grain bill for Alaskan Smoked Porter is smoked malt. It is intense smoke, but by no means does it taste like an "ashtray".

Now if you are talking peat smoked malt, I agree.

I suspect he IS talking about peated malt, which is a lot harsher, acrid, a lot less flavorful. There's no "ashtray-"type flavor to a good smoked malt, unless you also think BBQ tastes like cigarette butts. You are right in the sense that it's better (if you're not sure) to err on the side of not using ENOUGH smoke, but a 1/4# of a regular smoked malt is never going to be noticed.

Lot's of different opinions on this topic, don't everyone get too worked up.

If my method works out, I'll share the results. It would have been alot easier I think, if I had just remembered to keep the base malt seperate, but I'll have to work it differently. It's going to be a fairly big beer anyhow, so I can always age it a bit if need be.

I use BK's method, except I don't wear a jacket.

Two things I DO know from experience:

1. Don't use peated malt.
2. Don't use liquid smoke.

Peated malt might be alright for whiskey, but it is nasty for use in beer. It's just too harsh. If you can't smoke your own grains, use a good German rauchmalt.

I like to use natural liquid smoke products like Wright's or Stubb's in sauces or foods, but not in beer. It is so concentrated that it gives beer a harsh, medicinal flavor, IMHO.

For porters or stouts, you could do like Alaskan and use 100% smoked malt. But to be safe and/or for lighter beers, I'd start w/ 25% smoked malt and add more with each batch I brewed until I got what I was looking for. Later this summer I'll be brewing a smoked porter that calls for 50% smoked malt.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

:

Click to expand...

I think we can all agree that the proper smoking attire and professorial attitude is critical! Is that tweed or courderoy?

Yeah, I definately know I won't be using liquid smoke, just the smell tells me it doesn't belong in beer.

I might up the smoked malt to close to 50%, the smoke flavor doesn't bother me, I just don't want it to be the dominant flavor. But what the heck, if it doesn't turn out, I can just brew it again later.

olllllo said:

I think we can all agree that the proper smoking attire and professorial attitude is critical! Is that tweed or courderoy?

Click to expand...

Solid Courderoy

You look very Bruce Campbell ala Old Spice. (That's a compliment, BTW)

Oooooooo.... I need an ascot!:rockin: That would be a great addition to my brewing wardrobe (J/K) sorry

OMFG, it's his smoking jacket. I don't know why I didn't think of that earlier....

(I have a courdoroy sportcoat that I wear all the time... just not when I'm making beer ).

My stout has had some aging, and it's in the process of carbing in the keg right now. No noticeable smoke flavor from smoking 1/4 of the grain bill. Fuggit, next time I'm smoking it all.

Cool, thanks for the update mckbrew. Now, I tried smoking some malt, but I had problems trying to keep the grains in the bowl.

I realize this thread is very old, but have just gone through the process of smoking grains, and have some questions.

I am brewing an Imperial Stout, and the original plan was to smoke all of the base malt for about 30 min. I made up some SS mesh baskets, and used a friends Little Chief smoker with apple and cherry wood. I wet the grains with a spray bottle, and turned the grain every 10 min, at the 30 min mark, the grain had no noticeable smoke aroma, so I continued to wet it and smoke it for another hour and a half. The grain is now really smoky, and I am considering using it for 50% of my base malt. If I chew up a grain, it absolutely tastes like smoke. This is going to be a big assertive beer, and I don’t want the smoke to be lost, but I also don’t want a total smoke bomb.

Those of you who have smoked your own grain, how noticeable was the smoke aroma / flavor in the raw grain, how much of it did you go with in the beer, and how noticeable was it in the finished product?
I realize that predicting the results are impossible, but I just want a few “data points” to base my decision on.

Thanks.

I haven't brewed in awhile, nor can I remember exactly what I used in this recipe but it was nowhere near 50 percent base malt and it was so smokey after several months that I poured it.

A few years ago I used a porter recipe from my lhbs and smoked 30% of my grain. I put it in aluminum bbq pans and stirred it maybe four times before I got distracted with company. I accidentally smoked it for just over 2 hours. I did wet the crushed grain before smoking and I went directly from the smoker to the mash tun with the grain. During brewing and fermentation there was a strong smoke smell comming from the kettle and brew bucket. After kegging the smoke was too strong to drink. Probably a 3 week primary then kegged. I pulled that keg and left at room temp and tasted every other weekish and after maybe 3 months the smoke mellowed and it tasted greate.

I have a locker style smoker and a big easy(yes most of our grub is smoked I actually had been drinking craft brews and Guinness while smoking and decided I want to brew my own for those long smoke sessions instead) anyways here's my question what if I smoke just a small amount of oats with foil underneath them(like how you smoke salmon) not aiming for a particularly heavy smoked flavor but just a hint of smoke underneath a stout with a cherry flavor( game plan is to mash in actual cherry pie filling then add cherry sours (the candy) in the boil to capture a sour cherry flavor and increase abv but also want it to be deep robust and complex with a Guinness and sour tone at the front and hopefully a light smoky flavor at the back but also i want it to be smooth hence the idea of oatmeal I'm not very experienced yet but trying to learn everything I can

I just smoked 1.5 lbs of wheat for a 2g batch gratzer-like beer (50/50 mix). 2 hours around 200 degrees on mixed hardwood, oak and hickory. Then dried at 150 in the oven for over an hour. I am probably jumping the gun but plan to brew tomorrow. 2 hours was a long time but its supposed to be a smoke bomb beer. After my palate relaxes from today's smoke session, I can accurately assess the smoke level of the wheat.

Ive been smoking meat over open fires for 20 years so I figured I got it right lol

Just finished my keg of Piwo. Red wheat malt cold smoked over maple for 1hr, wetted in a bowl of water for a few seconds ds and then drained. Grain bill was only 6lbs so smoked it all and then let it rest in a paper bag for 2months before brew day. Great beer for standing over the grill cooking brats...