Looking for an ale in the style of an Oktoberfest...

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the_bird

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Alright, starting to plan my next brew. We've been drinking a lot of Oktoberfests lately (obviously), and while we're obviously moving out of that season I'd like to make something that's kind of in that style. Malty but balanced, good body, amber/copper/reddish hue, fairly easy to drink. Seems like several of the top-rated Oktoberfests have "buiscuty" as a character trait, maybe a little buiscut malt in the mash?

Thing is, I have no capacity to lager at this time, and I just cannot make building a po'boy lagerator a priority at this time. So, I'm looking for an ale that's kind of in the Märzenbier style, I guess. I know it's not going to be perfectly accurate, that's OK with me, I'm basically looking for a malty, balanced red ale.

Looking to do a partial mash (hopefully, mostly-mash), if someone had either a PM or an AG recipe that I could play around with, that would be awesome.

As always, much obliged for any thoughts you folks might have.
 
I've got AHS's Six-Malt amber ale (partial mash recipe) in my secondary right now. A nice sip out of the primary pretty much nailed what you described. Goes a little something like this:

155F mash for 45 minutes:
2.50Lb 2-row
0.50Lb Victory Malt
0.50Lb Special B
0.25Lb Crystal 40L
0.25Lb Chocolate Malt
0.25LB Carapils

5LB Amber LME, return to boil (should be able to sub 1Lb 2-row in mash for each 1Lb of LME, but may have to compensate for SRM-loss... 60L maybe instead of 40L?)

2oz Willamette at 60min
1oz Fuggles at 5 min

White Labs WLP-013 London Ale Yeast

I also added 1 tsp of Irish Moss at 15 min, which is not on the recipe. The recipe called for an OG of 1.054 but I only ended up at 1.047. I don't think I rinsed my grains well enough :( But it's still beer so who cares?!!
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I believe there was an article in one of the big brew magazines last year that suggested O'fest beers tasted a lot like Irish Ales...:D

Maybe I just haven't had the right Irish Ale, but I don't think of them as quite as malty as an Oktoberfest.

The posted receipe actually looks pretty good. Wondering about subbing out the chocolate malt for a little bit (quarter pound? little less?) black patent, to darken it just a touch, bring it a little bit more to the red side. This beer's mostly for SWMBO, she still tends to drink a lot with her eyes (with darker being preferred).

I haven't used Victory or Special B - what characteristics do they add? Still trying to learn what all the different grains bring to the table...
 
Generally I'd say Pils malt, Munich malt & Vienna malt in what ever proportion you want plus some aromatic malt to 'simulate' the decoction maltiness.

I used 60 % Pils, 35% Munich, 5% aromatic, single infusion at 68C.

Then use noble hops like Tettnang or Hersbruker to give a bitterness roughy half your OG (so, 30 IBUs to an OG of say 1.060). Then maybe half an ounce of flavour hops if you want.

Use a clean ale yeast (German Ale) or the california common lager yeast if you're warm fermenting.
 
take any Octoberfest recipie and substitute a clean ale yeast OR a California common (steam) yeast

GDI I need to type faster, Mysterio beat me to it
 
Hmm, steam-beer yeast, that's a good thought... that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks, guys! I'll mock something up this weekend and post for comments.
 
heres a recipie from my LHBS for an Octoberfest

ALL GRAIN
A ProMash Recipe Report
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------
09-A German Amber Lager, Oktoberfest/Maerzen
Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.064
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 7 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.67
Anticipated SRM: 11.7
Anticipated IBU: 32.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.047 SG 11.70 Plato

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
31.8 3.50 lbs. Munich Malt Light Weyermann 75.43 7
45.5 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Weyermann 73.35 2
18.2 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt 20L US-Briess 67.12 20
4.5 0.50 lbs. Crystal Med 60L Pauls 69.19 60
Potential represented as Yield, Coarse Grind As Is.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 4.75 32.0 50 min.

Extras
Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.20 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
WYeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

EXTRACT VERSION
A ProMash Recipe Report
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------
09-A German Amber Lager, Oktoberfest/Maerzen
Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.064
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 7 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 9.00
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.83
Anticipated SRM: 13.5
Anticipated IBU: 31.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051 SG 12.70 Plato

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
66.7 6.00 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract-Light 75.74 7
11.1 1.00 lbs. Dry Malt Extract-Amber Muntons 95.22 25
11.1 1.00 lbs. Munich Malt 20L US-Briess 67.12 20
5.6 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt (2 Row) Belgium 73.35 19
5.6 0.50 lbs. Crystal Med 60L Pauls 69.19 60
Potential represented as Yield, Coarse Grind As Is.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 4.75 31.2 50 min.

Extras
Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.20 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
WYeast 2206 Bavarian Lager
 
the_bird said:
Maybe I just haven't had the right Irish Ale, but I don't think of them as quite as malty as an Oktoberfest.

The posted receipe actually looks pretty good. Wondering about subbing out the chocolate malt for a little bit (quarter pound? little less?) black patent, to darken it just a touch, bring it a little bit more to the red side. This beer's mostly for SWMBO, she still tends to drink a lot with her eyes (with darker being preferred).

I haven't used Victory or Special B - what characteristics do they add? Still trying to learn what all the different grains bring to the table...

The chocolate will darken it. But, if you want to sub in patent, I'd suggest only using 2 oz of it instead of 4. With 4 oz, you probably taste it and it sounds like you just want the red tint of color from it.

I've never used Victory (or at least I don't remember using it), but Special B in small quantities (less than 4 oz) gives a caramel malty taste. If you get too much of it in there, it'll taste kind of like raisins.

-walker
 
Aromatic is a really malty tasting malt :) Works great in an Oktoberfest and gives you the colour you need. Papazian uses it a lot in his book I notice.

Pumbaa's recipe looks great too.
 
Use roasted barley to add red color instead of the black patent. It has less bitter roastiness.
 
It depends on how dark you want it. Try 4 Oz of roasted Barley with 10L crystal and you should like the result.
 
I'd like it to be somewhere between a deep copper and a red color. I've gotten lots of great ideas about this recipe, I'll jot them down when I get a chance and post what I'm thinking.

Now, I wanted to use some different hops than what I've used in the past. Wanted to stick to noble hops. Was thinking a combo of Hallertau and Tettnanger for flavor, but I'm not sure if I should use Hallertau for bittering or something else. I know the hops for this style shouldn't be too aggressive, ProMash seems to indicate that 28 IBUs is about the style-limit; you think if I shot for more like 35-40, it would be terribly inappropriate?
 
Follow the link the my 'Oktoberfest Style Ale' in my sig.........I really really like it, I'll be making it again and probably not changing anything

It's partial mash too...
 
Wow, that's pretty much spot-on what I'm looking for. I may end up being a little closer to an Altbier, as I would rather be a little more aggressive on the bitterness and hops flavor, but I'll definately be brewing something in the same vein. I think I'll use more grain and less extract, I'll play around with the numbers in ProMash later on. Thanks!
 
Ok, this is what I'm thinking...

Fermentables:
5# Munich
2# Pale Ale Malt (2-row)
1# Crystal 10L
2# Light DME
2oz black patent

Hops:
0.60oz Hallertaur (60min)
0.60oz Tettnanger (60 min)

0.50oz Hallertaur (30min)
0.50oz Tettnanger (30 min)

0.25oz Hallertaur (15min)
0.25oz Tettnanger (15 min)

0.25oz Hallertaur (1min)
0.25oz Tettnanger (1min)

Yeast:
Nottingham

SG: 1.056 (assuming 65% efficiency)
IBUs: 45.6

Any thoughts?
 
Depending on how close you want to get to a marzen, (I realize this is an ale) you may want to ditch your flavor/aroma hops since the the focus in this style is purely on malt flavor. A single addition for bitteringshould suffice. As well, I'd lose the crystal and up the munich. Traditional Marzens were brewed with up to 100% munich malt.

That being said, it's a great looking recipe and I would brew it, I just wouldn't call it a marzen.
 
Also, if you're using the Denny Conn method of batch sparging, you won't have any trouble hitting 70-80% efficiency, even on your first shot, so keep that in mind before you add your DME.
 
Well, I've done one mash, and hit 64% (don't think I sparged enough). I'd bump the Munich but, well, I've got five pounds and the HBS's an hour away. I recognize it's not a Marzen, it's a little more like an altbier in terms of gravity and IBUS. Even then I'm hoping that it does have a little more emphasis on the hop flavor that would be typical.
 
Nah, ballparked. I ain't that smart yet. I'll play around with ProMash to see if I can get the numbers right.

What mash temp should I aim for? A little on the high side to give it some sweetness? 156 or so?
 
Looks like 2.18 gallons for my mash.

What's the rule of thumb for batch sparging again? 2qts per pound of grain, so about 4.5 gallons?
 
the_bird said:
Nah, ballparked. I ain't that smart yet. I'll play around with ProMash to see if I can get the numbers right.

You'll get frustrated using promash and batch sparging with it. I know you have read this before, but it's the best way to do it by far: From D. Conn's site

The main concept we’re going to be working with is that for the best
efficiency, the runoff volumes from your mash and batch sparge should be equal. In order to do that, it’s sometimes necessary to infuse your mash with extra water before thefirst runoff. Here’s how it works...

R1=initial runoff volume which = mash water volume - water absorbed by grain
(assumed to be .1 gal./lb. for this example since that’s the way my system works...use your own figure)

S= batch sparge water volume
V= total boil volume (amount in needed in kettle for boil)
I=volume of infusions for a step mash

R1+I+S(1)+S(2)+S(etc.) must equal V
AND
R1+I=.5V

Let’s see how this works in a brewing session. Assume a recipe with 10 lb. of grain, and that you need to collect 7 gal. of pre boil wort. A mash ration of 1.25 qt./lb. would require 12.5 qt. or 3.125 gal. of strike water. Based on an absorption of .1 gal./lb., the mash would absorb 1 gal. of water so we’d get 2.125 gal. of water from the mash. Since we want to collect 3.5 gal. (or 50% of the boil volume), after the mash is complete we’d add 1.375 gal. (5.5 qt.) of water to mash tun before the first runoff. Stir the additional water in, let it sit for a few minutes, then vorlauf until clear and start your runoff. After the runoff, we add 3.5 gal. of batch sparge water. Stir it in, rest
10-15 minutes, stir again, then vorlauf and runoff as before. These two runoffs will give us our pre boil volume of 7 gal. of sweet wort.

the_bird said:
What mash temp should I aim for? A little on the high side to give it some sweetness? 156 or so?

I'd shoot for about 154F, you don't want this to be cloying. A common misconception about mash temp and sweetness, maltodexrtin has almost no flavor. Thus mash temp has very little to do with sweetness or consequently, maltiness.
 
Thanks!

I think I found one thing I did wrong last time. I was under the impression what when batch sparging, I only needed to let it rest a couple minutes (like, three or four).

Also, I didn't add more water after the mash was done before doing my first runoff. Instead, I vorlauf, did the runoff, and noted about how much water I collected. I had a ballpark idea of how much I needed to sparge with, so I then did two sparges, each with half the of that water. Not the right way of doing things, but my efficiency wasn't terrible, and there was enough other stuff to learn how to do the first time!
 
the_bird said:
Thanks!

I think I found one thing I did wrong last time. I was under the impression what when batch sparging, I only needed to let it rest a couple minutes (like, three or four).
They say you really don't need to wait. Everything is all dissolved already, so by the time you're done vorlaufing, you're good to go.

the_bird said:
Also, I didn't add more water after the mash was done before doing my first runoff. Instead, I vorlauf, did the runoff, and noted about how much water I collected. I had a ballpark idea of how much I needed to sparge with, so I then did two sparges, each with half the of that water. Not the right way of doing things, but my efficiency wasn't terrible, and there was enough other stuff to learn how to do the first time!

LOL, That's EXACTLY what I did the first time! Let me know how this one turns out.

:mug:
 
Well, I actually got 83% BUT! that's because it was a really big beer and it didn't suffer from not topping up for the initial runoff, because there was so much material to work with so I thought I was the ****. The next one I did had a normal-size grain-bll, and I hit 63% and thought WTF? That's when I realized I needed to do the top up. So that's pretty much on-line with your numbers. Now, with the top-up I'm routinely over 80%.
 
Perfect. If I'm a little big, well, I can live with that ("sorry, honey, it's a little bigger than you're used to" - how can saying THAT ever get old?). I should have enough hops in there where if I *do* happen to hit 75% or so, it'll still be in balance. Maybe I'll bump the bittering to 0.75oz each.
 
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