tri clover hopback

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kshuler

kshuler

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HI everyone-

I am ultimately planning on some day purchasing a therminator, but before that I want to have all my ducks in a row so it doesn't get clogged. Am working on a home made hopstopper, but thought for a little extra filtering and a big boost in flavor, why not integrate a hopback in the scheme as well?

All of the hopback projects I have seen seem to be more difficult than I am willing to do (yes, I am lazy). And moreover, it seems the flow dynamics of the ones in a mason jar (that do look simple enough for a moron like me to make) would not be so good. Wouldn't you get a lot of flow between the 2 tubes, but not much wort would circulate into the bottom of the jar, or along the sides? Seems to me like the least resistance between inlet and outlet is the direct line between them.

Anyway, it occured to me that the simplest way to do this would be using tri-clover fittings. Here is a diagram of what i propose:

z94n5o


Does this seem like it would be a good plan? Seems that it would handle pressure from a pump very well, would be very easy to clean, and should fully utilize the hops that would be packed inside. The one thing though, that sort of bothers me is that i have NEVER seen a straight pipe with triclover fittings on the ends. If such a thing doesn't exist, then I guess so much for that idea.

Anyone ever built such a thing, or anticipate any significant problems? How much volume do you need to have in order to use 2oz of leaf hops in a hopback? The wire mesh screen gaskets are available on ebay for cheap, but the 2"-1.5" triclamp reducers are a bit pricey.

Klaus
 
I have the More Beer hopback, it is much larger than the one you have here, and I think I can only get 4 ounces in it. I think you will be very hard pressed (no pun intended) to get 2 ounces of leaf hops in there, and maintain any reasonable liquid flow.
 
What's the inner diameter on a tube with 2" triclovers? 1.5"?.. That would be 1.77 square inches of filtering surface which you'd put 2 ounces of leaf hops behind and try to run 5-10 gallons of wort through? I think your screen would plug up nearly immediately.

EDIT: On a more positive note, I love the drawings you do, and Calibri is a great font :)
 
Thanks for the comments on the drawings! I looked into the price for this anyway, and found it might be a bit prohibitive. The thing I don't like about the morebeer hopback is it looks like it may not be airtight-- can't use the pump to push stuff through without the risk of it spilling out the top. If it could make a good seal that could take pressure I think it would be a much better product. I would think that a layer of compressed hops would make a better filter bed than a layer of very loose hops, and for that reason I think I would want to pump the hot wort through though. Also I want to cool the wort as fast as possible, and waiting for gravity to pull the wort through the hopback would slow me down considerably, I imagine.

What if instead I put a bazooka screen in it? That would significantly increase the filtering surface area, but I would still worry that the hops further towards the exit would be underutilized.

Klaus
 
You can just gravity drain from the BK in to the B3 hopback, and pump from there... keeping an eye on the level in the hopback through the glass lid.
 
I built one very similar to the one you purpose. I have never used it, so I can't speak to the performance. But here is a couple pics.

Edit: It is 2" sanitary tubing 12" long.
P1010127.jpg

P1010128.jpg


The inside, polished smooth.
P1010129.jpg
 
GreenMonti said:
I built one very similar to the one you purpose. I have never used it, so I can't speak to the performance. But here is a couple pics.

Edit: It is 2" sanitary tubing 12" long.

The inside, polished smooth.
QUOTE]

WOW- Exactly what i was thinking of! Where did you get the tri clover tube? Do you have any screen or anything in it to hold in the hops?

I would be very curious to see this tested! How long have you had this thing?

Klaus
Click to expand...
 
kshuler said:
GreenMonti said:
I built one very similar to the one you purpose. I have never used it, so I can't speak to the performance. But here is a couple pics.

Edit: It is 2" sanitary tubing 12" long.

The inside, polished smooth.
QUOTE]

WOW- Exactly what i was thinking of! Where did you get the tri clover tube? Do you have any screen or anything in it to hold in the hops?

I would be very curious to see this tested! How long have you had this thing?

Klaus
Click to expand...

I did all the work on it. I have had it for about 3 almost 4 years. The reason I haven't used it is I haven't come up with a way to do the screen that I like. I have had lots of ideas but I just wanted something more "cool". I have another piece of tubing to build another one, but the fittings will need to be acquired.

Edit: We need to work something out to get it tested. I'm not far from you.
Click to expand...
 
GreenMonti said:
kshuler said:
I did all the work on it. I have had it for about 3 almost 4 years. The reason I haven't used it is I haven't come up with a way to do the screen that I like. I have had lots of ideas but I just wanted something more "cool". I have another piece of tubing to build another one, but the fittings will need to be acquired.

Edit: We need to work something out to get it tested. I'm not far from you.
Click to expand...

What about just loading hops in the thing inside a hop bag? I ordered a stainless steel screen mesh gasket for a test of my idea, but it is unfortunately a 1.5" triclamp version.

I would be very interested in testing this device-- just throw some hops in it and give it a run to see if it stops up or not, with either gravity feed or with a pump. Do you think it would be a valid test to try it with just water, or would wort be necessary for a valid test?

As some people have pointed out, a small 1.77" area for filtering isn't that much and would be likely clogged quickly. I came up with another idea that would still distribute the hot wort evenly through the entire hop bed, but it seems like it would be a bit more difficult to make (although not really much more expensive). Here is a diagram:

nzcn2r


Anyone know if there are any end caps for tri-clover connections that look anything like those on the diagram? If not, can these be built with a standard end cap and a drill, using weldless bulkhead connections, and if so, will these hold up to the pressure provided by a march 809 pump? Seems a lot easier to just drill than weld, although I do wonder if there will be a problem with weldless fittings... the end caps actually have a bevel that I think would make sealing of a weldless fitting difficult.

I imagine someone with metal working and welding experience could make something like this-- unfortunately, that is not me. Hell, I cut myself just trying to screw in a kitchen sink to hose adapter on my last brewing day. If I got near a torch the whole neighborhood would burn down.

Klaus
Click to expand...
 
I made a giant hopback out of a corny keg. Actually my main point was to be able to quickly drain my boil kettle and then recirculate while chilling with minimal air exposure (I had some lactobacillus problems). I found that it also works well as a giant hop back.

I removed the beer out poppet and forced a plastic (hi-temp rated) elbow onto the post. In the corny lid, I removed the valve and replaced it with a threaded fitting. To use as a hop back, I just put the hops in a bag (with a weight), tie a piece of fishing line to it and tie that to the lid and seal it up. I hook up the beer out post to my boil kettle and let it drain. It fills in less than 5 min. It is one giant hop back with all of the hops and all of the hot wort together in a sealed container.

Then I bring it inside and hook it up to my plate chiller. The beer out post goes to the in port of the chiller. Then it goes to my pump, and then to the connecter in the corny lid. To get things moving, I hook up my CO2 line to the gas-in post and give it a shot of gas to get the hot wort to flow out of the keg to the chiller and pump. Then I start the pump and remove the gas. I put a gas disconnect on to allow the pressure to equalize because as the wort cools it contracts and pulss a vacuum, which the pump doesn't like. Now I can recirculate in a totally enclosed system while chilling. Another benefit is when I used to just recirculate back to the open boil pot I would run into problems with the kettle filter getting plugged up over the course of 15 min. of recirculating. That is not an issue any more
 
Why not build one out of something like this so you can see all the cones in action says they come up to 36" long..... THAT would be trick!
255.gif
 
kshuler said:
GreenMonti said:
What about just loading hops in the thing inside a hop bag? I ordered a stainless steel screen mesh gasket for a test of my idea, but it is unfortunately a 1.5" triclamp version.

I would be very interested in testing this device-- just throw some hops in it and give it a run to see if it stops up or not, with either gravity feed or with a pump. Do you think it would be a valid test to try it with just water, or would wort be necessary for a valid test?

As some people have pointed out, a small 1.77" area for filtering isn't that much and would be likely clogged quickly. I came up with another idea that would still distribute the hot wort evenly through the entire hop bed, but it seems like it would be a bit more difficult to make (although not really much more expensive). Here is a diagram:

nzcn2r


Anyone know if there are any end caps for tri-clover connections that look anything like those on the diagram? If not, can these be built with a standard end cap and a drill, using weldless bulkhead connections, and if so, will these hold up to the pressure provided by a march 809 pump? Seems a lot easier to just drill than weld, although I do wonder if there will be a problem with weldless fittings... the end caps actually have a bevel that I think would make sealing of a weldless fitting difficult.

I imagine someone with metal working and welding experience could make something like this-- unfortunately, that is not me. Hell, I cut myself just trying to screw in a kitchen sink to hose adapter on my last brewing day. If I got near a torch the whole neighborhood would burn down.

Klaus
Click to expand...

What you propose could be made very simply. Just drill the end caps and tap them for a one sided fitting. Given what you have drawn I would probably drill them and weld in a full coupling.
Click to expand...
 
Can anyone explain the purpose for a hopback setup like this please.
 
I have made an APA and dry hopped in the cornie and had decent aroma. I havent gone for anything higher than a 60-70 IBU. Is this something to consider if I ever make anything like a Stone IPA or stronger?
 
ILOVEBEER said:
I have made an APA and dry hopped in the cornie and had decent aroma. I havent gone for anything higher than a 60-70 IBU. Is this something to consider if I ever make anything like a Stone IPA or stronger?
Click to expand...

Yeah, dry hopping won't get the same aroma from the hops. The hopback runs hot wort through the hops, extracting the volatile compounds, then the wort is immediately cooled. Dry hops never see that blast of heat.
 
That makes sense. If I ever tried this I'd have to worry since it goes directly into a 40 plate chiller after the BK.....filtration is crucial for me.

Joe
 
ILOVEBEER said:
That makes sense. If I ever tried this I'd have to worry since it goes directly into a 40 plate chiller after the BK.....filtration is crucial for me.

Joe
Click to expand...

Actually, that's also part of the point. My plan is one day to buy a therminator and I am afraid of clogging it. The hop bed and extra strainer actually works as another filter inline with your chiller to make it less likely to clog. Should filter out some of the hot break. Just be sure to use leaf hops and not pellets. My plan is a home made hopstopper in the kettle, then moving to the hopback for further fitering, and THEN into the chiller. Should be pretty clear by that time.

Whoever found that sock gasket thing is a friggin' genius. Easy to clean, no weldless fittings to clean, can just drop all the pieces into boiling water to clean and sterilize.

So here is an updated schematic:
7fhrnh


The only questions I have are how one would attach the copper tube to the hose barb adapter? Weld it on?

Truthfully, this option may be more expensive than just drilling holes and using a bazooka screen-- the eccentric end cap reducers are more expensive than the straight end caps, and you then need another end cap to hose barb adapter as well. Plus, with this option you don't have the flexibilty of where to place the copper tube and the screen... it may be closer to the middle of the 4" tube than would be desirable. I would rather have the copper tube and screen pressed up against the side wall of the 4" main tube.

Anyone know how much custom welding usually costs? Is it charged by the hour usually? I see some craigslist people saying the will do small jobs, but I don't want to be out $100 just for the labor.

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I think I am committed to building something like this. Any other suggestions? Anyone think it would be better to build this with the gasket vs the bazooka screen? If it was using the bazooka screen, would I just drill a hole for a 1/2" female NPT coupler, center it in the hole and then weld it in?

Klaus
 
Why not lose the copper pipe, place the screen socket in the middle of the endcap, placE hops around the outside of the screen and push wort from inside the screen outward? Mayb the hops would just flow out the output hose though. I would also just buy blank end caps and solder the fittings on.

I guess your looking for more filtration so maybe what I just said is null.
 
kshuler,

For what it is worth...save your money and do not buy a therminator............ IMO WAY OVERPRICED!
On Ebay I found a 40 plate chiller (therminator specs) with the inlets and outlets all on the same side and they already have 1/2" FNPT tapped. I have run 60 gallons through mine with no problems. If you like the way the blichmann is setup go for it.....personally I think the way mine is is user friendly. The two bottom are hose connections the top thermometer setup is on a SS QD. Here is my setup:
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1629/chiller.jpg

And here is the seller incase you are interested:
1
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brazed-Stainless-Steel-40-Plate-Heat-Exchanger_W0QQitemZ170464556604QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27b07ab63c

His sellers name is mambler2002. He always has them on there, based out of Hawaii....Good Luck!
 
by the time you buy all the parts, and fittings you will have spent close to 50, why not get something nice that will work great and be easy to clean and take apart. Its only gona cost a few extra bucks, just don't eat at burger king for lunch, and take a pb&j for a week.
 
Jmurm said:
by the time you buy all the parts, and fittings you will have spent close to 50, why not get something nice that will work great and be easy to clean and take apart. Its only gona cost a few extra bucks, just don't eat at burger king for lunch, and take a pb&j for a week.
Click to expand...

So you're saying it would be better to buy a $50 screen than the parts to build the complete hop back for $50?

Don't get me wrong that screen is sweet, integrated into a tri-clover setup, it would be the blingingest hopback around. However that would be for someone who values aesthetics higher than economics.
 
ILOVEBEER said:
kshuler,

For what it is worth...save your money and do not buy a therminator............ IMO WAY OVERPRICED!
Click to expand...

Wow- half price? That is amazing. thanks for the link! God Bless ebay! I guess my question would be how it compares to the Therminator? Is it as efficient, does it have as much surface area, is it more prone to clogging, does it have more internal resistance etc? I read somewhere that the therminator has extremely low internal resistance with more flow paths for wort than other plate chillers, making it easy to use with gravity if my pump crashes, and with an inline hopstopper and hopback, I don't want any extra back pressure on the pump (really I don't know how the pump flow rate will be affected by either the hopstopper or the hopback). That is the one reason I had been mostly considering a therminator instead of a cheaper option like the Shiron or the Chillout series off chillers.

qe5l0u


But, since you have direct experience with these things... how have you been completely satisfied with your chiller? Any issues with slow flow rates? Do you find cleaning it very bad? I had read somewhere that some people just plop their plate chillers in the oven on the cleaning cycle, then backflush the ashes out. Have you tried this? If that works, that is one argument against the therminator... I have heard it has a little rubber rim that can come off even from boiling-- I imagine it would be worse if baking at high temperature-- probably not safe. Are there any plastic parts on the hawaiian plate chiller?

By the way, NICE setup. Much better than anything I have (or will have in the future given where I live). Is that an inline oxygenation stone, as well? If so, how did you build it?

Klaus


UPDATE: In a beer driven folly, I just bought online a 4" OD 304 stainless 1' tube, 4" ferules, 4" end caps, 4" gaskets and 4" clamps. Now I am in it for real! Set me back a pretty penny.
 
Dude...I think you are overthinking things. I contacted blichmann and they were kind enough to give me the dimensions and plate count of the therminator...this thing is pretty damn close in dimensions and it is a 40 plate chiller as is the therminator. So far I have been able to cool 210* wort to 68* with a little valve attention as it flows. The hose water has to be on FULL throttle and the wort is regulated to a small flow.....atleast to a 1 GPM flow (gallon per minute). When I am finished I clean my rig with a pressure washer. I backflow my plate chiller with short bursts from the pressure washer (ofcourse not full stream concentrate, just enough to get a good flow)...never had an issue. I bag all my hops/additions and have a FB so the amount of sh*t in my BK is kept to a minumum.

As far as the thermometer/oxygenation stone setup......it can be built very easily but by the time you add up the oxygenation stone, 6" thermometer, SS "T"'s and necessary pipe pieces....it comes out to be the same price. I purchased it from morebeer (store in CA) without any inlet/outlet barbs for $80.00....so basically open 1/2" FNPT threads. I added a SS QD and built the copper tube that dumps into my sanke fermenter after chilling is complete.

Unless you want to pay for the name and convenience of the therminator preplumbed for hose etc.....go for it. I am here to tell you mine works awesome and expect years of service from it. BTW thank you for the compliment on my stuff. It took me four months to build it and I love it. Good Luck!

Joe
 
ILOVEBEER said:
It took me four months to build it and I love it.
Click to expand...

Did you do all the welding yourself? Is that a filter in the background? Are you filtering your wort through that, or filtering the finished product through it?

Thanks for the info on chillers and the oxygenator stone. I will probably put in an order on ebay for one of those instead of spending the excess dollars on a Therminator. First will build this hopback thing, though. Things are in the mail right now, have the son of a coworker who is certified in pipe welding who will drill and weld for me. I Will have to wait a bit though for the oxygenator stone setup, as nice as it is. Perhaps a few more paychecks later.

I'l include pictures as soon as I have the thing built. Here is the final schematic of what I am going to do. This time it is all to pretty much exact scale.

k0k9ll


Will see how it works. I think it should be OK, or else it is just an expensive experiment!

Klaus
 
Awesome. I welded everything except for the SS kegs. I do not have the capability to TIG weld let alone sanitary TIG weld. The filter is for my HLT water. My water is chlorinated. Once I filter it it tastes like bottled water, so I brew with it as is and have good results.

I have a FB in my MLT (obviously:)) and a FB in my BK with a copper siphon tube...the combination seems to keep ALOT of the excess stuff out of my chiller. Buddy do yourself a favor and buy the plate chiller off of ebay....cheaper, economical and effective.

Good Luck
 
Here is one more option.


I don't have a hopback but this filter housing works the same way as your design.
Its made of 4" OD SS and 4" end cap on one side.

100_0337-1.jpg


012-1.jpg


100_0338-1.jpg


Fill with hops and close with a cap (external or internal)
100_0344.jpg

Internal removable cap
100_0341-1.jpg



Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
ClaudiusB said:
Here is one more option.


I don't have a hopback but this filter housing works the same way as your design.
Its made of 4" OD SS and 4" end cap on one side.


Fill with hops and close with a cap (external or internal)

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
Click to expand...

Wow, that is impressive! Where did you get that and how much did it run you? Looks kinda pricey, no?

Klaus
 
I'm dying for an inline pressurizable hopback like what you guys are describing so I can do some serious below-boiling late hop additions. That one CladiusB posted is sick! How is your project going kshuler?
 
That filter looks to be part of a racking wand?
ClaudiusB said:
Here is one more option.

I don't have a hopback but this filter housing works the same way as your design.
Its made of 4" OD SS and 4" end cap on one side.

Fill with hops and close with a cap (external or internal)
Internal removable cap

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
Click to expand...
 
Howdy-

Here are the diagrams (downsized) I have for the welder. End caps are the only thing not here yet- backordered at JME sanitary. Should ship out Monday, hopefully.

lvb9a0


Getting excited. Anyone from Seattle know of an inexpensive welder?

Klaus
 
Have you talked to GreenMonti? I think he's in, or near, Seattle... and a very talented welder/home brewer :D
 
ILOVEBEER said:
kshuler,

For what it is worth...save your money and do not buy a therminator............ IMO WAY OVERPRICED!
On Ebay I found a 40 plate chiller (therminator specs) with the inlets and outlets all on the same side and they already have 1/2" FNPT tapped. I have run 60 gallons through mine with no problems. If you like the way the blichmann is setup go for it.....personally I think the way mine is is user friendly. The two bottom are hose connections the top thermometer setup is on a SS QD. Here is my setup:
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1629/chiller.jpg

And here is the seller incase you are interested:
1
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brazed-Stainless-Steel-40-Plate-Heat-Exchanger_W0QQitemZ170464556604QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27b07ab63c

His sellers name is mambler2002. He always has them on there, based out of Hawaii....Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Hi there, I'm wanting to make myself a hop strainer as well as finally putting my pump to use with one of those chill plates you got off of ebay. Now here is my question to you regarding the oxygen input...do you have a valve anywhere to control the input of oxygen and are you using a tank for the oxygen or just allowing air to find it's way into the stone? I noticed a barb fitting connected to what looks like a push fitting onto the stainless oxygen input tube....I'm trying to piece things together to mimic virtually what you have pictured. Any info would be great Thanks

Daniel
 
kshuler, that looks sweet! If you find someone to make oen I might be interested in having one made too ;)
 

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