Strong Bitter Common Room ESB

JonM said:

I made this a couple months ago with Target. It was perfect.

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Cool.
Only for bittering or the flavour/aroma additions too?

I recently made this for the 3rd or 4th time - solid beer. This time I switched the Fuggles with Saaz. I know it's not "to style" with using German hops but wow.. the Saaz really added a level of crispness that I didn't get from the Fuggles. With changing the hops I get a really nice malty flavor upfront followed by a pilsener type crispness aftertaste from the Saaz. Really awesome base recipe and if anyone wants to try the Saaz you won't be disappointed.

I've used saaz with this recipe as well. Turned out great.

I make this beer so much that it instantly comes to mind when I think English pale ale.
For the following picture I used delta hops and wlp002 (fuller's strain).

How is the beer staying in the glass?! This man is a wizard!

Must of glued everything to the ceiling.

I'm going to brew this for the second time tomorrow.
Last time was a few years ago.
I haven't read all 85 pages but has anyone dry hopped this?
Is it worth it or better to stick to the original?
To keep it English I would have Target, Fuggles, EKG or Challenger available.

To me, this recipe is perfect. Imade some minor changes, no dry hopping though. If anything I might go a little bigger on the bittering charge. To each their own though.

Dennis said:

To me, this recipe is perfect. Imade some minor changes, no dry hopping though. If anything I might go a little bigger on the bittering charge. To each their own though.

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Yeah I might just leave it.
My changes were that I used Target for bittering and caramunich II instead of crystal 60. Last time I was really starting to enjoy it but then for some reason it was overcarbed after about a month in the bottle. Even tough I got constant SG readings for 3 days in a row. Since then I give the fermenter a shake and increase the temperature by a few degrees at the end of the fermentation to make sure it is really finished. Seems to work.

Anyway I'm mashing a Session IPA and a Brown ale at the moment.
When they are done in a few hours I will be starting with this one.
Grains are crush and hops are weighed :rockin:

Brewing this badboy today with my grainfather

@shenanigans You brew like me. Back to back. Some lifestyles mean brew days are far and few between enough you have to make good uae of the time you have. As for the sudden upshot in carbonation, I hear you. I went to bottle and keg ab IPA the other day and sure enough fermentation took off again, despite it getting all the way down to .008

I just cold crashed Canadian style, left it out in the snow. It's a little cloudy, but apparently that's all the rage now, so oh well. Stull tastes good. Hope yoyr brewday went well.

Dennis said:

@shenanigans You brew like me. Back to back. Some lifestyles mean brew days are far and few between enough you have to make good uae of the time you have. As for the sudden upshot in carbonation, I hear you. I went to bottle and keg ab IPA the other day and sure enough fermentation took off again, despite it getting all the way down to .008

I just cold crashed Canadian style, left it out in the snow. It's a little cloudy, but apparently that's all the rage now, so oh well. Stull tastes good. Hope your brewday went well.

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Yeah brew day went well, pretty much hit my numbers for all 4 beers.
I only have three 30L buckets so I put this beer in a 23L plastic carboy that I normally only use for bulk aging. Even though the recipe was planned for a bucket
Then I had about 5 liters left over at the end so I put it in a smaller bucket and added an out-of-date pack of Windsor yeast I was going to throw away. Should be enough for about 10 bottles so a nice little unexpected experiment.
First time I will have fermented the same wort with two different yeasts.

Brewing this on Sunday with minor tweaks.

Anticipated OG: 1.055
Anticipated FG: 1.015
Anticipated ABV: 5.24 %
Bitterness: 34.4 IBU
Color: 21.0 EBC

Mash:
90.9 % / 4.00 kg Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter, 5.9 EBC
6.8 % / 0.30 kg Simpsons Crystal T50, 135.3 EBC
2.3 % / 0.10 kg Simpsons Crystal Dark, 267.5 EBC

Mash thickness 3 litres/kg + 4.5 litres to compensate for false bottom
60 min saccharification rest at 65 °C
10 min mash out at 76 °C
Fly sparge with enough hot tap water to reach a boil volume of 26.4 l

Boil:
First wort - Fuggles, 13.3 IBU / 20 g at 5.1 % alpha
First wort - East Kent Goldings, 13.6 IBU / 20 g at 5.2 % alpha
20 min - Fuggles, 3.7 IBU / 10 g
20 min - East Kent Goldings, 3.7 IBU / 10 g
15 min - Irish Moss, 1 tsp
Flameout - Fuggles, 10 g
Flameout - East Kent Goldings, 10 g

Boil duration 60 min

Fermentation:
Overbuilt 1.6 l starter of WLP002 with 0.2 l saved for future use, rest decanted and pitched to 16 °C wort
16-17 °C ambient until fermentation slows down, 3-5 days
21-22 °C ambient until 14 days from brewing

Cold crash, fine with gelatin, keg and force carb with 40 psi for 18 hours at 4.0 °C. Dump flocculated yeast and trub and leave at 10 psi / 4 °C for approximately 2.3 volumes of CO2.

Any recommendations for water profile? My tap water is around 24.3 ppm calcium, 14.7 ppm magnesium, 3.1 ppm sodium, 0.2 ppm chloride and 28.0 ppm sulphate.

akithegood said:

Any recommendations for water profile? My tap water is around 24.3 ppm calcium, 14.7 ppm magnesium, 3.1 ppm sodium, 0.2 ppm chloride and 28.0 ppm sulphate.

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Went with about 108.5 ppm Ca, 18 ppm Mg, 16.8 ppm Na, 48.6 ppm Cl and 97 ppm SO4. Added 3.5 ml 80 % lactid acid and hit 5.4 mash pH. Efficiency was surprisingly low (69 %) so I missed my target OG by 0.005, ended up with about 19 litres in fermenter with 1.050 OG.

Shenanigans said:

Yeah brew day went well, pretty much hit my numbers for all 4 beers.
I only have three 30L buckets so I put this beer in a 23L plastic carboy that I normally only use for bulk aging. Even though the recipe was planned for a bucket
Then I had about 5 liters left over at the end so I put it in a smaller bucket and added an out-of-date pack of Windsor yeast I was going to throw away. Should be enough for about 10 bottles so a nice little unexpected experiment.
First time I will have fermented the same wort with two different yeasts.

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My SO4 batch finished at 1.013 and the Windsor mini beer at 1.020. So should end up tasting a lot different. Bottled them 4 days ago. So I check them in about a week.

Looks like a great recipe, I'm adding it to the short list.
Read the WHOLE thread over a couple days and the consensus is that it is awesome!

Shenanigans said:

My SO4 batch finished at 1.013 and the Windsor mini beer at 1.020. So should end up tasting a lot different. Bottled them 4 days ago. So I check them in about a week.

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So both 3 weeks in the bottle now.
The S-04 one still tastes like it's not finished it's so flocculent that it can take a while for this yeast to complete the bottle conditioning.

The Windsor is tasting good and has actually cleared up really well.
Think I will prefer the S-04 in the end though but probably won't be able to say for sure for at least another week.

BTW how does this beer age?
Does it still taste good after 6 months to a year in the bottle if stored correctly?

It's no hop bomb so I'd imagine it would be ok.
I know it's not a Summer type beer but I'm planning on a garden party in late Summer so it would be good to have a few bottles of a malty brew available for those who like that.

Mine never stuck around long enough to say how it ages

That's odd, the one I made with s-04 cleared up pretty quick. How long has it been in bottles?

Dennis said:

Mine never stuck around long enough to say how it ages

That's odd, the one I made with s-04 cleared up pretty quick. How long has it been in bottles?

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It's 3 weeks in the bottle.
I have heard that S-04 can take a while to fully condition because it is really flocculent and there's not as much yeast in suspension to consume the priming sugar as with other strains. It still seems to be getting better (more gas) every day so it's probably just a matter of waiting for a while.
I brewed 3 other beers on the same day which are ready to drink so I can wait a bit longer on this one

Made my first batch of this yesterday. I had wlp013 on hand so that's what I used. Overshot my gravity @1.062. Still haven't dialed in my grainfather/beersmith settings yet. Sample tasted great and color was fantastic. Happily bubbling away now. This was a quick grain to glass experiment, so I'm hoping to have some results for this one in a few weeks.

Gunna try this one, but I'm too lazy to read this entire thread. So has anyone brewed this recently? Still using original recipe? Anyone with experience brewing this a few times have any suggestions? Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.

I've brewed it a couple times and you can stick to this recipe. It's great. I just brewed my own experimental esb recipe and I don't think it's going to be as good as this recipe.

Cool. Thanks. I'm excited to try it.

Is Safale S-04 still the preferred yeast? I'm brewing this next week. I plan to ferment at 65F until primary fermentation near completion, and then slowly raise to 68F over 2 days and hold there until 2 weeks completes. Then cold crash to 32 for 2 days.

Anybody have outstanding results with a different fermentation schedule?

Edit: also going to build up distilled water to the Yellow Dry profile in Bru'n'water. Seems acceptable for this style? Any feedback is much appreciated.

Just had my first (3) glasses of this recipe... wow.. So dang good.. I made it with WL002 because that's what I had, but it is a very very well balanced beer, and dangerously drinkable.
Thank you so much for sharing the recipe

This is next on my list. A definite favorite.

On Wednesday I'm going to try this (just a tiny test batch)

Target OG ~1.055
Target FG ~1.014
BeerSmith estimated IBUs ~37
BeerSmith estimated color EBC ~27
BeerSmith estimated alc. 5,4%

Ingredients:

Crisp Finest Maris Otter Ale malt ~90%
Crisp Crystal150 ~9%
Crisp Chocolate ~0.8%

Mash 90min / 149-151F + batch sparge.

Boil 90min, additions

for full 90min (IBU 37-38):
Target 50%
Challenger 25%
Northdown 25%

final 8-10min
East Kent Goldings 100%

No dry hopping.

Yeast WLP002 from fresh starter, pitch at 66F, then buid --> 70F.

After good diacetyl rest bottle 50%/50% Kräusening method / table sugar only method (~2 vols) to compare.

If everything goes fine, I'll make another batch with WLP005 and compare side by side with both the previous batch and Fuller's ESB.

Water is local very soft tap water with following additions in ppm
Ca2+ ~150
SO4- ~300
Cl- ~30

Been doing yeasty/fruity/hoppy beers, finally now turning to malty.

Question: how well does this beer age? Best fresh? If not, when is it in its prime?

zonkman said:

Been doing yeasty/fruity/hoppy beers, finally now turning to malty.

Question: how well does this beer age? Best fresh? If not, when is it in its prime?

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I'd say its best from 3-4 weeks until its gone. Mine usually doesn't last longer than a month once on tap. I did let one keg sit and for 3 months and my buddy who bought the keg said its one of the best beers I have made. It's one of those beers you don't have to age, but doesn't care if you don't get to it right away.

I've been looking at this wonderful thread regarding English yeasts: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...emps-and-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts.221817/

And I'm keen to try the 1318. My only concern - as noted, occasionally - is that it might finish a touch on the sweet side for bitters.

Anyone with 1318 results with this recipe?

Also, any solutions? Mash lower (148-150)? Carbonate a little more? Etc?

I don't think you need to change it too much to reach the expected 1.014 with 1318. 1318 should have a similar attenuation range to s-04. If you want to be sure you could either mash at 150-151F or use 90min mash but this may even drive it down more than suggested in the original recipe. In addition, I would make a starter when using the wyeast liquid yeast.

Awesome, thanks so much. I'll mash a little lower (150-151), pitch low and raise to 68 over 2 weeks (as per other thread).

Brewed this up last night and made one error: 0.75 Fuggle at flame out, instead of 0.25. Curious if anyone else has added a bit more hops than original recipe? Results?

I've seen English IPAs with this ABV, IBU, hop aroma....

You may get a little more flavor/aroma but bitterness won't really change since it was a flameout addition.

I've had this bad boy bottled for a week now. Two changes to the original: used 1318, and accidentally added an extra 0.75oz Fuggles at flame out. It's still carbing, developing, etc, but my initial impression is that the extra Fuggles worked out very nicely. The 1318 left it just a tiny bit the sweet side for me (my teeth tingle only slightly), but that little boost in bitterness/earth aroma meets it well. Of course it's all about the Maris Otter.

If you like aromatic beer - and maybe, like me, you explored the hop-side quite enthusiastically - I'd say give this one a go. It's my first English-style brew - haven't drunk many either - and it's definitely convinced me to go deeper.

Many thanks to the King, Brian I.

Brewed this up last weekend and am going to keg it up this evening. I changed the recipe up just a bit. I used Maris Otter instead of 2-Row and went a step lighter on the Crystal malts (45L and 120L). Still turned out a nice color overall. Instead of S-04 I used Wyeast #1968. Went a bit high on the OG as I came in at 1.061. Finished at 1.014. Has a great malty sweetness up front with a lingering bitter on the tongue (from the gravity reading sample). I used a whirfloc tablet and with this yeast the beer is already very clear.
I will let it sit in the keg for a week or two before I start drinking it, but I am sure it isn't going to last long.

I brewed this back in February and have been drinking it for a few weeks now. With all my beers, I try to use NZ ingredients (because they are usually fresher and cheaper than imported) so I have substituted the malts and hops here. I researched the malt alternatives which have the most similar characteristics to those in the recipe and with the hops I was pretty much cleaning out my freezer, but I don't think they deviate too much in character from the hops in the recipe (except the Moutere, but thats just there for the IBUs.)

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.012
IBU: 33
ABV: 5.25%

2250g Gladfield American ale malt
2250g Gladfield Ale malt
340g Gladfield Medium crystal
113g Gladfield Dark crystal

10g Moutere (17%AA) @ 60min
19 Saaz (3%AA) @ 60min
9 Saaz @ 20min
9 Motueka (4.9%AA) @ 20min
9 Saaz @ 0min
9 Motueka @ 0min

1x pkt Safale S-04

Fermented 9 days at 18-20degrees then into secondary for 5 days. Didn`t use any finings.

Impressions after a month in the bottle:
Hearty, yet drinkable ale. Faint sweetness but solid bitterness. I definitely wouldn`t add more hops for fear of taking away from the malt. Murky copper with a creamy beige head which dissipates somewhat. Very subtle nose of caramel and flowery hops.
Overall, very nice. My only gripe with my brew is that the flavour of the hops and malts is not very defined - it tastes malty and bitter but it`s hard to actually taste any real characteristics from these elements. This may have come down to not using traditional English ingredients. I will definitely brew this again and won`t deviate from the recipe with my ingredients so much. I may also add some biscuit malt as has been suggested. My water profile here may also have been a bit off which could affect how much flavour came through.

Shenanigans said:

Yeah brew day went well, pretty much hit my numbers for all 4 beers.
I only have three 30L buckets so I put this beer in a 23L plastic carboy that I normally only use for bulk aging. Even though the recipe was planned for a bucket
Then I had about 5 liters left over at the end so I put it in a smaller bucket and added an out-of-date pack of Windsor yeast I was going to throw away. Should be enough for about 10 bottles so a nice little unexpected experiment.
First time I will have fermented the same wort with two different yeasts.

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Well 3.5 years later and I'm ready to try this again in a few weeks.
If I remember correctly both beers turned out OK but nothing special.
It might be related to my water and processes back then and also I'm not a big fan of S-04.

So hopefully with the experience I picked up over the last 3 years, using 1968 instead of S-04 and some water moifications, I should get a better end product this time.

Anyone have a water profile that worked out good for them?

Thanks.

If you're looking to get close to the Fuller's one, this is meant to be pretty close and is based on the original Fuller's recipe :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...m-the-horses-mouth.642756/page-2#post-8281609

Northern_Brewer said:

If you're looking to get close to the Fuller's one, this is meant to be pretty close and is based on the original Fuller's recipe :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...m-the-horses-mouth.642756/page-2#post-8281609

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Cool I will have a look

I am indeed a fan for Fullers ESB but don't have enough Target or any Northdown.
I do have 30g of Challenger but it's somewhere at the back of my freezer and from 2011 or 2012

I have newish Fuggles, EKG, First Gold, German Northern Brewer (possible Challenger sub), Brewer's Gold and Bramling X.