Conical Fermenter

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BADS197

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Is there justification to buy one of these for the home brewer?

I can only think of two reasons and none justify 800$.

1. I want one, they look cool.
2. Make it easier to seperate trub, no racking to secondary??

Is this only for someone with a sculpture and a fridge they can roll it into?

A cooled unit that they claim can lower temps 30degrees below ambient.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/16166/102278/Complete_Conical_Fermenter_-_With_Cooling7.1_Gallons

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com...or-Conical-7-Gallon-TriClamp-fittings-0101931

0101931.jpg
 
There are some cheaper imported ones on ebay, but those are still in the 300 dollar range. Seems like a LOT of money for something that serves the same purpose 25 dollar better bottle/carboy.

I agree they do look cool and would love to get one, but not at the current prices.
 
Yeah I feel the same way... It's a "nice to have" You could just buy buckets and spend the extra money on a kick ass burner, or some type of fermentation temp control (chest freezer, fermentation chamber), or even a top of the line BK.
 
I have one of the B3 units, which I bought mostly for it's ability to control temperature and the cool factor. I haven't used it much recently because it's a 12.2 gallon unit and I've been making 5 gallon batches. But I'm working on changing that.

The conical is ridiculously easy to clean and work with, and it's a very nice addition to the brewery, but I certainly don't think it's a required piece of equipment.

Brian
 
There are a few advantages of a conical.

- Stainless is 100% sanitary, like glass.
- You can use it as a fermenter and bright tank without racking (just drop the trub and hold for conditioning).
- You can get clean yeast to repitch. Dump until the yeast is white, save until you get trub. No need to wash a primary cake.
- You can rack with CO2 so your beer is never exposed to oxygen.
- The shape encourages flocculation so your beer will clear more quickly.

Some conicals are also capable of pressurized fermentation so you can naturally carbonate the brew by replacing the airlock with a relief valve at the end of fermentation. This trick is employed frequently by brew pubs to conserve expensive CO2.

My next upgrade will be glycol-jacketed conical fermenters. I'll go with 18-20 gallons total volume so I can do 15 gallon batches in each. Now I just need a new house so I have room for them. :D
 
Is a 7 or 12 gallon Heated and Cooled conical fermenter worth the $1300 to $2500 price tag when it's just as easy to drop a bucket into a chest freezer?

Nope!

But the chest freezer isn't as pretty either is it.

Do you NEED to have a conical fermenter to make good beer?

Nope!

But if your looking close enough to determine that the glycol system can drop temps 30* below ambient, then you know you want one anyways.

I am saving my pennies for the 12 gallon heated/cooled B3. I could care less about yeast ranching and I will still use the chest freezer for fermentations in buckets. I mainly want the conical becuase it self contained and has a small foot print compared to the freezer option plus, I don't have to lift buckets over the lip.

Only 245,000 pennies left to save!

I had considered the 7 gallon extesively but, I'd hate to have that and in a few years decide I want to start making 10 gallon batches of my house beer and have to split it up. You can always ferment 5 gallons in a 12 gallon conical but you can't ferment 12 gallons in a 7 gallon conical (all at once).
 
All valid points. A buddy of mine with I guess too much money wants to start brewing. He saw a conical ferementer and has been talking about it ever since. I personally think he is insaine to start off with buying a conical but if he wants to do it he can do it. Then maybe he will not like it and then i can buy it off him for cheap :D

He already asked me about plastic ones and I said he shouldn't do it since one of the benifits in my mind is the sanitary and worry free cleaning of Stainless so whats the point. I am going to tell him to spend the money on other equipment first like burners, kettles, and any of the other hundreds of items you can buy to make his brew life easier.
 
<snip>
I had considered the 7 gallon extesively but, I'd hate to have that and in a few years decide I want to start making 10 gallon batches of my house beer and have to split it up. You can always ferment 5 gallons in a 12 gallon conical but you can't ferment 12 gallons in a 7 gallon conical (all at once).

Be aware of the fact that if you get a 12 gallon conical from B3 it will certainly hold a 5 gallon batch, but it will NOT effectively chill a 5 gallon batch. This is due to the fact that the chillers are mounted on the vertical portion of the fermenter body, not on the cone. If you put only 5 gallons into the 12 gallon unit the liquid level won't be high enough to touch the chiller.

Brian
 
I had two at one time now I have just the one and I am getting ready to sell it to my BIL . 7 gallon conical isnt going to cut it with 10 gallon brews . I am Watching the review thread on the bitter Creek conical. I like that I could most likely fit 2 in my upright keezer. Which i can't do with the others on the market being too short and wide

They are very convenient if you wash yeast and don't secondary. No moving the beer from one container to the other.

I just started using 1/2 barrel Sanke's for fermenters set in big swamp coolers/warmers working out pretty well.
 
Be aware of the fact that if you get a 12 gallon conical from B3 it will certainly hold a 5 gallon batch, but it will NOT effectively chill a 5 gallon batch. This is due to the fact that the chillers are mounted on the vertical portion of the fermenter body, not on the cone. If you put only 5 gallons into the 12 gallon unit the liquid level won't be high enough to touch the chiller.

Brian

Yeah. I have heard of this but according to the advert here they've since redesigned to correct for that flaw. It comes at a price tho'. Ouch!
 
There are a few advantages of a conical.

- Stainless is 100% sanitary, like glass.
- You can use it as a fermenter and bright tank without racking (just drop the trub and hold for conditioning).
- You can get clean yeast to repitch. Dump until the yeast is white, save until you get trub. No need to wash a primary cake.
- You can rack with CO2 so your beer is never exposed to oxygen.
- The shape encourages flocculation so your beer will clear more quickly.

Now I just need a new house so I have room for them. :D

Saccharomyces - can you explain this part a little? My conical has a 2" dump valve, so I'm not quite sure how to control this. I am currently washing the yeast out of this, but only put one batch through.
 
Dunno... depends on what you have. Most of the ones I've seen have two valves, one for racking and a dump valve on the bottom. As I have seen it done (I don't have one myself) you crack the valve open slightly and collect the goop. When it turns white you switch to a sanitized container to collect the yeast until you start getting trub again and then you dump until you are just getting out beer. If you only have a dump valve and not a triclamp valve on the bottom you wouldn't be able to do this...
 
Saccharomyces - can you explain this part a little? My conical has a 2" dump valve, so I'm not quite sure how to control this. I am currently washing the yeast out of this, but only put one batch through.

my process was to dump at three days this is the break and such in the beer. Then dump a little bit 2-3 days later and if its nice and white I would sanitize a container and dump more off for future use.
 
Yeah. I have heard of this but according to the advert here they've since redesigned to correct for that flaw. It comes at a price tho'. Ouch!

The text of that advertisement says "Cooling is made to work with 10 gallon batches." Based on what I see in the photo it sure looks that way to me. I have one of the 12.2 gallon B3 heated/cooled conicals (the CON630), and mine won't cool a five gallon batch for the reason I mentioned. In the ad photo you linked to the chillers are mounted at the same height on the fermenter body as mine are, so I assume you'd have the same problem.

Just wanted to make sure you knew that before you shelled out your cash. If you buy before the end of the month, they are 10% off. ;)

Brian
 
I got an 8-gal plastic conical off of craigslist for $100, and have been very happy with it so far (two full batches, on my 3rd). It's perfect for using harvested Notty yeast, since it has enough headspace to keep from blowing the lid off when the Notty takes off 3 hours after pitching.

Sure, I don't have the glycol cooling or heating jacket, but those are actually modifications I can make in my DIY style. It's a little too big to fit in my kegerator fridge right now, but when I eventually get a stand-up freezer to use as a fermentation chamber, I'll be the happiest kid in school. Until then, when I need to lager my Alt, I'll rack to a carboy and do it the old fashioned way...
 
My wife got me one of those cheaper ones off of ebay. I like it. I didn't really think of it as an unneccessary expense to making beer. Every year we each buy each other something frivilous (usually birthday) that we wouldn't buy under any other circumstances...last year, it was a conical for me :)
 
The text of that advertisement says "Cooling is made to work with 10 gallon batches." Based on what I see in the photo it sure looks that way to me. Brian

I do appreciate the heads up but I just don't see where you are getting this from.

"Looking for the ultimate cooling power? Do want to make lagers, but live in a warm weather climate? We've taken our Externally Cooled & Heated conicals and doubled the cooling power and the insulation. The result is The Ultimate Fermenter with power to cool fermenting beer to 50 F below ambient temperatures during the summer, and built-in heating to maintain temperatures in the winter.

Two external cooling assemblies are fitted to the cone instead of one, providing a whopping amount of cooling power. The stainless stand has been redesigned and made wider, to accomodate 2" of foam insulation. Extremely powerful and efficient. Available only in our 12.2 gallon size because the 7.1 is too small and the 24 gallon externally cooled fermenter cools to 35-40F below ambient without the extra power.

Aesthetically, the fermenter looks impressive. Your friends might joke that it looks more like NASA's latest satellite than a home fermenter."

Of course, no mention is made of where the heating jacket is located.

I do plan to get one of these but, it will be some time before I have the sattelite installed in my garage brewery. I am still paying for the last purchase. In more ways than just cash.
 
I do appreciate the heads up but I just don't see where you are getting this from.
<snip>

Keep reading further down the page, just below the text you quoted. The next two paragraphs are:

MoreBeer CON700 said:
Because of the size and value, this fermenter will ship to you boxed, on a pallet. Includes: Pro-Series fermenter with Double External cooling and external heating.

Cooling is made to work with 10 gallon batches.

I pulled the above text from their web page ad for the CON700.

MoreBeer cools their conicals with Peltier chips. The chips are located behind the fans that you can see in the photo. There's one pair of fans facing the camera, and then you can see the edge of the second pair of fans on the left side of the fermenter. The heater is mounted at the bottom of the fermenter, against the cone.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I just wanted you to realize that the 12.2 gallon MoreBeer conicals will hold a 5 gallon batch, but they won't chill a five gallon batch. I didn't realize that until my CON630 arrived at my house. I was a little disappointed, but not terribly. Since you specifically mentioned wanting to do both 5 and 10 gallon batches, I just wanted to point that out before you spent $2,450 for something that might not do what you want it to.

Brian
 
Guys the reality of it is just the shear fact of simplicity. Cylindroconical fermenters only play a role in fermentation at and above 100 bbl fermentation. The tall cylinder has a unique circulation that occurs creating a natural yeast flow in the beer. It increases flocculation and substantially helps cooling among many other benefits. At the low level of brewing that us home brewers do, conical fermenter are just for simplicity of pulling spent yeast off, keeping sediment down.... They work great, I have used them for home brewing in the past but mine currently sit dormant as I dont have the space or time to deal with 15 gal batches (18.5 gal conicals). I would never spend over $200 on one of these, if you know how to weld stainless steel you can throw one together for under 100$ easy. However if you dont know how to weld it would be a steep learning curve :) If you are fermenting under 15gals just use carboys, its so much easier. But at and above the 1/2 bbl limit it gets a little bit harder so why not use a conical :) And anyone that buys a 5 gallon conical, im sorry but you either have to much money or.... well I dont know but thats just not a smart investment.
 
anyone that buys a 5 gallon conical, im sorry but you either have to much money or.... well I dont know but thats just not a smart investment.

People are always blowing money on unnecessary things. Hyundai's can get you from point A to point B just fine, but many people buy BMW's. A conical would never be part of my budget, but a few hundred dollars for whatever is budgeted for birthday's and other occassions. Why would my wife blow money on socks and underwear for birthdays, anniverseries and what not when necessities are already budgeted?
 
People are always blowing money on unnecessary things. Hyundai's can get you from point A to point B just fine, but many people buy BMW's. A conical would never be part of my budget, but a few hundred dollars for whatever is budgeted for birthday's and other occassions. Why would my wife blow money on socks and underwear for birthdays, anniverseries and what not when necessities are already budgeted?


Im not saying a conical is unnecessary, 5 gal conicals are just a little silly to me when a $20 carboy does the exact same thing. I guess the way I look at it, if I have enough equipment to justify purchasing a conical I should be ready to make larger batches, at least one that can ferment 10 gallons of beer minimal.
Sorry if that last quote struck a nerve, I purchase things I dont need all the time, like a two tap beer tower, didnt need it but its sure pretty. I have anywhere between 2-5 beers brewing at any given time so for me to do that I would need a fair amount of conicals. To each his own, and hey if someone bought me a 5 gal conical for my bday, trust me I would not complain :D
 
Im not saying a conical is unnecessary, 5 gal conicals are just a little silly to me when a $20 carboy does the exact same thing. I guess the way I look at it, if I have enough equipment to justify purchasing a conical I should be ready to make larger batches, at least one that can ferment 10 gallons of beer minimal.
Sorry if that last quote struck a nerve, I purchase things I dont need all the time, like a two tap beer tower, didnt need it but its sure pretty. I have anywhere between 2-5 beers brewing at any given time so for me to do that I would need a fair amount of conicals. To each his own, and hey if someone bought me a 5 gal conical for my bday, trust me I would not complain :D

No nerves struck :) If a 5 gallon conical is the dumbest thing I ever purchased, I'd consider myself pretty good...unfortunately, I have a very expensive freezer that I told my wife is doubling as my coffin:D

All I'm saying is that most of us have little things that we like that other people deem as illogical...the wife and I got smart years ago and actually budgeted for the illogical.
 
The way I see it the positives outweight the price. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are two more advantages than ease of harvesting yeast:

1. Can dump drub easily without having to rack
2. Way easier to clean and sanatize than a carboy
 
My next upgrade will be glycol-jacketed conical fermenters. I'll go with 18-20 gallons total volume so I can do 15 gallon batches in each. Now I just need a new house so I have room for them. :D

Just curious, have you sourced a jacketed conical?
 
Im not saying a conical is unnecessary, 5 gal conicals are just a little silly to me when a $20 carboy does the exact same thing. I guess the way I look at it, if I have enough equipment to justify purchasing a conical I should be ready to make larger batches, at least one that can ferment 10 gallons of beer minimal.
Sorry if that last quote struck a nerve, I purchase things I dont need all the time, like a two tap beer tower, didnt need it but its sure pretty. I have anywhere between 2-5 beers brewing at any given time so for me to do that I would need a fair amount of conicals. To each his own, and hey if someone bought me a 5 gal conical for my bday, trust me I would not complain :D

well i will say it, a 5 gallon Conical is just retarted !!, it makes no sents
you can use a 10 gal Conical for 5 gal batch of beer and it just cost a little bit more. after i got all my keggels built and my mash tun, i never brew less than 10 gal of beer (unless its experimental) , its the same amount of work for twice the beer thats 50% less labor.
 
well i will say it, a 5 gallon Conical is just retarted !!, it makes no sents
you can use a 10 gal Conical for 5 gal batch of beer and it just cost a little bit more. after i got all my keggels built and my mash tun, i never brew less than 10 gal of beer (unless its experimental) , its the same amount of work for twice the beer thats 50% less labor.

Ya got my vote and my kind of thinking about sizing your keggles to your needs as well the conicals to handle the larger single batch brews.
When you start out small and grow you already wasted money building the system twice, go big once and enjoy.
Back to the OP it would be nice to see conicals with the right amount of volume allowing 15 gallons net in the cornys after fermentation and trub dumps without going into 24 gallon size conicals. With 7, 12 and 24 gallons and no 20 gallon conical in their selection. The volume and price increase are way too rich for my wallet, even if I could afford their larger unit I would feel like a dope spending that amount of money. Call me cheap, $800 each for 27 gallon Blichmanns times two is a big hit on the wallet. The 24 gallon Pro series with tri clamps at More Beer at $975 each and a lid that looks like an after thought vs the Blichmann conicals. JMO's.
use a Toledo cone, cut and Tig weld it to the bottom of a 15.5 gallon keg. Cut and add a large stainless ring with a machined "O" ring groove, on top a cover with a strong latching system to lock down the cover plus the normal gs lock and pressure release. Add the legs. Labor your on your own.
 
Ah yes --- to be young again!!

Well folks, last month, I ordered one of B3's 2.0 14-gal. conicals, burt for me it was a matter of survival. I have home-brewed for over 19 years fermenting in 7 & 5 gallon carboys, but those days are over. 2-1/2 years ago my left rotator-cuff separated, and is now held together by 3 SS screws in the shoulder. Last Sept. had another accident ( right shoulder anterior dislocation ), plus more ligament damage. Now in physical therapy & eagerly awaiting delivery of my conical, so I can brew once more. Both my Primary MD & the Orthopedic Doc said to lift nothing heavier than your d*** or you may have to get your DW feed you your grub. My old man was 86 when I put him down in Rose Hills, so if I'm lucky, I might have 6-1/2 more years of brewing. LOL to all of you!!

D-Dog
 
Well, I have 4 carboys and just put an order in for 2 of the 14.5 gal conicals from conical-fermenter.com. For 400 plus shipping I'm not sure I could build them for less that that. I have gotten into mead and apfelwein and bulk aging in the glass carboys I have is impinging on my 10 gallon batch brewing. I've already resorted to secondarying in by kegs but even with 8 kegs, I am just barely getting by.

So, for me I can invest a couple hundo in more carboys and kegs, or I can get these conicals and both improve my beer (dump trub and harvest active yeast cake) as well as reduce the amount of stuff I have to store/clean compared to the alternative expansion.

But I do agree with the idea that the 5-7 gallon fermenters are goofy. No room for expansion and limit the resale value while doing the same job as a $30 glass carboy.
 
If you want to make your neighbor brewer jealous, with his 6G frosting bucket fermenters, this will do the trick. But then again, he'll be able to afford about 800 buckets at that price, and by then, he'll open up a microbrewery that only uses old baker's buckets as fermenters.

Your neighbor may have the last laugh.

I think stainless conicals are beautiful, functional, effective, and would be nice to work with. Buckets or carboys are also functional, to a slightly lesser degree, are harder to work with, and aren't that pretty. Whether or not these differences are worth a difference of ~$750 is up to the beholder. If I had $800 burning a hole in my pocket, a Blichmann 14G tri-clamp model would be in the mail with my name on it tomorrow.
 
well i will say it, a 5 gallon Conical is just retarted !!, it makes no sents
you can use a 10 gal Conical for 5 gal batch of beer and it just cost a little bit more. after i got all my keggels built and my mash tun, i never brew less than 10 gal of beer (unless its experimental) , its the same amount of work for twice the beer thats 50% less labor.

Not a true statement at all. First of all my 5 gallon Blichman is 7.1 gallons of stainless beauty. I will never do 10 gallons of beer as I am the only one that is drinking it. I would get bored if I had that much beer of the same type. My reasons for having it are 1) Easy to clean and very hard to scratch unlike plastic. 2) I can harvest my yeast much easier than any other method. 3) I can pressurize it and push my beer with CO2 into the the keg if I choose. 4) The cool factor is also a reason. Now with all that being said is it worth $400+ I would say NO. I can make the same quality beer with a carboy. I think it is more of the cool factor plus ease of use for the most part is why I like using it.
 
I hate to spill the beans, but Randar showed me a good looking site. Anybody have any of their stuff? Great price on a 14.5, and the kettle looks very nice too. Good find. Hope they come through. And the prices don't skyrocket.

conical-fermenter.com
 
Not a true statement at all. First of all my 5 gallon Blichman is 7.1 gallons of stainless beauty. I will never do 10 gallons of beer as I am the only one that is drinking it. I would get bored if I had that much beer of the same type. My reasons for having it are 1) Easy to clean and very hard to scratch unlike plastic. 2) I can harvest my yeast much easier than any other method. 3) I can pressurize it and push my beer with CO2 into the the keg if I choose. 4) The cool factor is also a reason. Now with all that being said is it worth $400+ I would say NO. I can make the same quality beer with a carboy. I think it is more of the cool factor plus ease of use for the most part is why I like using it.

Not to mention if you get a cooled and heated version, you can't cool unless you fill it to the design capacity, i.e. 10 gallons in a 14. It won't work if you only want to brew five gallons.
 
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