What beers to step mash?

I was thinking of doing a double infusion for my hefe next weekend, but I am not seeing any recipes on here indicating it needs it. Is there any benefit from this and if not, what beers besides ones with a bunch of unmalted wheat benefit from it?

I only do step mashes when I brew with wheat malt. I'll do a protein rest around 122 for about 20 minutes, then crank it up to conversion temp. I do this to avoid stuck mashes, which I had once when making a wheat beer and want to avoid in the future. I've read that with today's malt, step mashes really aren't necessary. Therefore, I don't do them (except above). You usually only need to step mash (or decoction) with undermodified malts.

I think if you are using unmalted wheat you will need to do a cereal mash in order to gelatinize the starch.

GT

I'd say any German styles brewed with standard German malt.

Kai

Could you explain why, Kai?

Ahhhh..the love of experimentation. Another great thing about this hobby. Thanks for taking the time, Kai!

Kaiser said:

At this point I attribute this to the mashing procedure that is used. I do believe that the way the malt is mashed (single infusion vs. stepped infusion) makes a difference in the mouthfeel of the beer. In German Pilsner style beers, a lot of the mouthfeel comes from proteins and not so much from dextrines.
Kai

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So if it is the proteins that give the right feel, then I assume that you feel the protein rest is an essential part of the mash for a German Pils. The protein rest functioning to break the larger proteins (less soluble) into smaller more soluble proteins, which then give the desired mouthfeel

I did a little looking around on scholarly articles and they seem to, at least as far as protein rests go, be more interested in how it affect fermentability and haze, but not taste. Too short and it doesn't ferment well, to long and it affects head retention. I am intrigued and look forward to your results.

Any thoughts about the role of hop proteins? (versus that of malt proteins). Also,
I'm always amazed at the importance of proper carbonation for this style. If my darker beers are a litle flat, that's OK, but it really has a impact on a light lager. That's the fun of kegging in that you can really mess around with the CO2 and really dial in the right carbonation level

As I am learning, that protein rest also is important in head retention. It is not just that you have to watch for going too long, but also too short. The albumins that result from a proper protein rest provide the structure for the dense, rocky head you find in certain beers, as well as the mouthfeel Kai mentioned.

Protein rests are the next thing I am really going to work on in brewing. I had not concerned myself with them too much before, even though I often did them with lagers.


TL

You will have to see step-mashing decoupled from the issue of protein rest necessary or not. You can still step mash w/o holding a protein rest.

Many German brewers seem to skip the "classical" protein rest these days by mashing in above 55 *C (133 *F) and then stepping through the matose and 1 or 2 saccrification rests. The consensus seems to be that modern malts don't need the protein rest anymore. At least not to the extend it was needed in the past.

When I asked Weyermann about the necessity of protein rest for their malts that said "yes, at 62 *C (~144 *F)". I thought this was a typo and they said no. At this point I didn't want to discuss this further since they clearly know much more than I do. This made me think that the rests in the 140 - 160 *F range are maybe more than starch conversion and that there might be a benefit in stepping through that region.

I plan to visit Weyermann in the Summer and want to ask, What is the best mashing schedule to brew a Pils from their malt given that time and effort doesn't matter to the home brewer like it does for a commercial brewer. Maybe I'm going to ask this question in an e-mail first. They make a lot of business over here and are hopefully responsive.

I read about the proteins from hops and their mouthfeel contribution yesterday and will have to check on that. I also found that decoction mashing contributes to mouthfeel by extracting substances from the grain husks.

Kai

I did a quick Literature search and found a paper (2004) that looked at various aspects of protein hydrolysis in the brewing process. They were looking for the various sources of soluble protein (SP) during ALL brewing steps. They found around 25% of the SP is present in the un-malted grain, 50% is produced during malting and only 25% is created during the mash. This to me suggests that much of the important steps in making SP are already done before we begin. That gives us only 25% to mess around with, not that that isn't enough to matter.

I think some of this depends on the soluble nitrogen ratio of the malt. Noonan implies that only malts with an SNR of under 36% should get a ~122F protein rest. Otherwise, body and head retention is reduced. For malts over 36% SNR, he recommends a protein/saccharification rest at @ 131F, then step up to a saccharification/dextrinization rest at 153-155F or 158-160F depending on other variables I'm too lazy to get into here. I recently got Best Malz German pilsen malt and calculated the SNR at over 40% from the malt analysis that came with it. I brewed a helles on Saturday doing a single decoction using Noonans recommendations. Only two more months until I can drink it!

I just looked at the recipes on Weyermann's web-site: http://www.weyermann.de/usa/hr.asp?go=rz&umenue=yes&idmenue=274&sprache=10

These are recepies that have been brewed at their in-house pilot brewery and it's interesting to note that recipes brewed by American brewers (Ray Daniels in particular) use a single rest mash and the recipes brewed by German brewers use a stepped mash. Note that most of these mashes dough-in around 60 *C which is well above the protein rest temps.

Kai

Kai;

Are you talking about step mashing by decoction or by some other means?

GT

Got Trub? said:

Kai;

Are you talking about step mashing by decoction or by some other means?

GT

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Any means. The discussion should be about the benefit of multiple rests and not the necessity of protein rests or the advantages/disadvantages of decoction mashing.

Kai

Dang, I need to buy Noonans book. I've been meaning too, just haven't gotten around to it.