Blichmann Boilermaker G2

Great, just got word that the false bottoms for the 15 and 20 gallon pots can't be interchanged. So now you need to buy a separate false bottom for your G2 15 and 20 gallon pots.

Great!

trimixdiver1 said:

You are a special one huh?

Who would go out and buy a pot that costs more and trade it for a used kettle?

Wow!!

ipe:

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Oh dear. You're a real sharp one huh?

It's a joke based on several folks hating the new pots, and wanting the old ones that are no longer available.

jpalarchio said:

I would act fast, seems like they're getting scarce. I wanted another 20G "old style" and tried MoreBeer and Northern Brewer, neither could get one. Great Fermentations had 2 available in their warehouse and I ordered one immediately.

I had emailed Blichmann and they seemed to indicate some should still be around but the retailers were saying the opposite.

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Just ordered one, there is at least one more round of G1s.

Cyclman said:

Just ordered one, there is at least one more round of G1s.

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Where did you get yours and what size?

jpalarchio said:

Where did you get yours and what size?

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My local brewshop contacted Blichmann, who added a 15G kettle to their next shipment- allegedly. The Brew Hut in Aurora, CO.

I hope it is what Blich purported it to be!

day_trippr said:

There's no lack of irony that the new kettles won't work on a stand designed around their original kettles and floor burners.

So will Blichmann discount the G2 if shipped sans the new 90° valve?
Because that valve won't work for me, and I'm really not likely going to pay for two or three of them when I upgrade to 20g kettles...

Cheers!

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You could possibly use the included valves in other areas of the brewery that are not space constrained, and install normal 3-piece valves in the kettle. Personally, I am really am looking forward to trying one out.

Cyclman said:

My local brewshop contacted Blichmann, who added a 15G kettle to their next shipment- allegedly. The Brew Hut in Aurora, CO.



I hope it is what Blich purported it to be!

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I was getting conflicting stories when I was hunting. MoreBeer told me they had to call customers with existing orders to get approval to switch to the G2. Northern Brewer said they were told by Blichmann that there were no G1s available. Blichmann was telling me they just made a batch.

I ended up finding the 20g I was looking for from Great Fermentations who had a couple in their warehouse. It arrived next day which was pretty impressive.

So I'm not clear on something: can the new valve be replaced with the "normal" ball valve?

If so then why all this worry about future support of the valve, orientation, etc.? We're home brewers - we're going to customize these anyway/eventually. And the cost of swapping one of these "inferior" valves for the one you want is how much again? If you can afford a Blingman kettle you can afford a valve swap. Just my $.02




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I'd actually like to try the new valves out; I think they'd probably work in my setup. Hopefully some will show up in the classifieds.

The one thing I don't like about the traditional valves is how much they seem to stress the pot when you turn them; the metal near the hole flexes more than you might expect. I also took the locking tab off mine as I would forget about it and then try and wrench on the handle.

kal said:

GreatFermentations said:

]... eliminates additional needed elbows and nipples.

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Only if you want to exit sideways. If you use a Tee on the output to include an NPT thermometer like I do, then you may need an elbow. I also find it much easier to hook up a hose with a QD straight on with the QD hanging out beyond the edge of the table as it gives you a spot to hold a small bowl to catch drips. You can't do that now. It's actually as if they don't expect people to use the new kettles with a table at all and only with their burners and their 3-tier setup.

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My brain wasn't working when I wrote the above: I can still use a QD coming out the front if the special G2 valve is turned to point left or right, and a Tee is installed to have the QD facing forwards and an electronic temp probe facing left or right.

Results in pretty much the exact setup I have today, only difference is that you don't need a 1/2" close nipple to connect the Tee to the valve since the new valve is male (instead of female like on the old Boilermakers).

So both the round knob to open and close the valve and the QD would face forward. There may not be enough room to comfortably turn the valve with a QD or hose connected (I'd have to see) but a coupler+nipple could be added to extend out slightly sideways if needed.

Kal

jpalarchio said:

I'd actually like to try the new valves out; I think they'd probably work in my setup.

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Me too... especially for my mashtun. When using the false bottom, things have to line up correctly, and the ball valve doesn't get tight enough and it seems like my kettle leaks there.

I contacted Blichmann the other day about getting the new valve for my "G1's". They said that the valves will become available separately after they have enough for the G2's, so probably in a few months.

Yea im pretty pumped for these pots i think there gonna be really nice. There's always bitching and moaning when new things come out from people who are defensive/nostalgic about their old gear (understandable). I'm pretty convinced these new pots will do really well for Blichmann.

I dig the new pots.
The threading on the valve handle itself seems huge so it shouldn't take much of a huge spin to make the valves go, seems like it'll actually be a bit nicer to deal with and smoother... and plus cleaning looks way easier than taking apart the huge valves for the "spring cleaning" of your tear down items.

and honestly, with the barbs pointing down, it'll cause less flex in the hoses causing them not to kink... unless you already bought a 90* NPT pipe.

Put in my order for a matched triplet of 20 gallon kettles and a pair of false bottoms.
Specified G1 or forgettaboutit.
Should know by mid next week whether I'll be shopping Stout...

Cheers!

I sent a question to Blichmann Engineering regarding G1 20 gal kettle false bottom compatibility. They said the 20 gal G1 false bottom IS NOT compatible with the same capacity G2 kettle but the 20 gal G2 false bottom IS compatible with the same capacity G1 kettle. The G2 must have a smaller diameter.

Dasher12 said:

Yea im pretty pumped for these pots i think there gonna be really nice. There's always bitching and moaning when new things come out from people who are defensive/nostalgic about their old gear (understandable).[...]

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Of course, that's what this is all about.

Ignore the actual geometry issues for people who have table-top designs or plumbing and clearance issues with rigs that were essentially "Designed for Blichmann", and that the new valve has zero added value on a pumped rig, this is all about nostalgia...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

Ignore the actual geometry issues for people who have table-top designs or plumbing and clearance issues with rigs that were essentially "Designed for Blichmann", and that the new valve has zero added value on a pumped rig, this is all about nostalgia...

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I don't know, seems like a little bit of a stretch. I suppose there is a small group of people building towards something where they were mid-build and still need/want the old style. I was in that camp, I had actually been waiting for the 20g to be back in stock and managed to find a G1 version to fill that need.

I'd be surprised if someone has a rig built for 10g Boilermakers and they now want to upgrade to 20g and compatibility with the G2 is their only issue. Even so, what's a realistic expectation if you have a design locked into a particular product? It's not like these pots came out last year and are now changing; they've had a pretty long run.

I guess my thought is a company has every right to "improve" their product line and if they don't owe consumers advance warning. It's a business decision to announce new products far in advance or keep it a secret. If you announce a new product a year ahead of time, you might not sell your existing inventory as people will wait for the new model. Then when the new model is late because of whatever issue, everyone is pissed that the new product isn't here yet. Additionally, features are copied very quickly and there's a certain advantage of being the first to market with things like a new valve or US manufacturing.

Blichmann will receive the ultimate feedback in the form of sales. There are no shortage of alternatives these days; if people still like the product, they'll buy them.

There's a part of me that thinks they expected a backlash. They announced a fair number of things last NHC that didn't show up until this year's NHC. However, I don't recall anything about G2 Boilermakers at this year's NHC, although they obviously must have had them in the pipe. Maybe I missed it since I was really only looking at the BoilCoils, but I would have thought a completely different finish and valve design would have caught my eye. All that being said, I would probably want to see one of the new design in person before dismissing it out of hand, but I'm probably not going to follow through on my intention of building my own BrewEasy and selling my 30. Rather, I'll probably figure out a way to make my existing setup work as electric.

jpalarchio said:

I don't know, seems like a little bit of a stretch. I suppose there is a small group of people building towards something where they were mid-build and still need/want the old style.

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Exactly. No nostalgia required.

I was in that camp, I had actually been waiting for the 20g to be back in stock and managed to find a G1 version to fill that need.

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But you still think that's a stretch?

I'd be surprised if someone has a rig built for 10g Boilermakers and they now want to upgrade to 20g and compatibility with the G2 is their only issue.

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Be surprised. In my specific case the new valve makes this a compatibility problem. Well, that, and the gawdawful exterior finish, I'll admit.

Even so, what's a realistic expectation if you have a design locked into a particular product? It's not like these pots came out last year and are now changing; they've had a pretty long run.

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Go back a couple of pages. No, obviously it's not a numbers thing, but it's MY thing.

I guess my thought is a company has every right to "improve" their product line[...]

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No argument on that. But my money may go elsewhere as a direct result.

It's not like I'm alone on this, the guys at the largest LHBS in my state are not happy with the G2...

Cheers!

day_trippr- I guess a summary of my point is that they can't hold back innovation to cater to a minority. Yep, I was in that minority and I went out and found a 20g G1. Problem solved for me, life moves on.

I assume Blichmann feels the G2 is an improved product; I doubt their business plan is to release a product that the majority of people will like less than the competitor. Like I said, the sales will be the ultimate measurement of this.

rcrabb22 said:

I sent a question to Blichmann Engineering regarding G1 20 gal kettle false bottom compatibility. They said the 20 gal G1 false bottom IS NOT compatible with the same capacity G2 kettle but the 20 gal G2 false bottom IS compatible with the same capacity G1 kettle. The G2 must have a smaller diameter.

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Um, what? First part, 20 gal G1 not compatible with 20 gal G2. Second part, 20 gal G2 is compatible with 20 gal G1. Scratches head.

Regardless, who's bright idea was it to make nothing compatible? The very least they could do is make sure that things like the false bottoms would still work if they are discontinuing the G1 line. People change their setups, upgrade, downgrade, buy used, etc. Making it so the G1 is now completely cut off from all accessories is a particularly bone headed and quite frankly a back stabbing move to those of us who have a lot of money in Blichmann products.

I have 3 20 gal kettles, and a 20 gal false bottom. My thinking was that if I didn't like the 20 gal for the MLT, that I could trade down to a 15. That's out now. I also have a 10 gal, I went ahead without SWMBO approval and ordered a 10 gal false bottom in case I don't like such a large MLT for 5 gal batches. I just think that dropping the G1 completely was a crappy thing to do. The G1 should be kept in production for at least another year so that those of us that are still building can continue with our current plans.

Another thought, is the dip tube even compatible?

This is what I got back from Nick at Blichmann.

"We plan to discontinue the G1 design. We have a few kettles left for purchase in our facility and some of our larger retailers still have our kettles in stock. They have been instructed to sell these at a discount to make room for new G2 kettles. I would suggest contacting Great Fermentations, MoreBeer, Adventures in Homebrewing for further assistance with ordering or to check if they have G1 kettles in stock. If you have further questions please let me know. Have a great day."





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How about smaller retailers? What do we do? No email to us. Don't want to sell below MAP......?

trimixdiver1 said:

How about smaller retailers? What do we do? No email to us. Don't want to sell below MAP......?

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Seems the assumption is that the smaller retailers won't have any in stock, so not an issue in their eyes.

TobyG said:

Seems the assumption is that the smaller retailers won't have any in stock, so not an issue in their eyes.

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But we do stock these, and the discount would be out of the retailers markup.....which is not much to begin with.

Blichmann accepted an order for three 20 gallon Gen-1 kettles and a couple of matching false bottoms, with "First Generation Only! Contact <my lhbs> if there are any issues!" splashed across it.

My outer-cynical-pessimist still knows "It ain't ovah 'til it's ovah!" but my inner-optimist-wannabee is hopeful this is going to work out in the end.

"Film at eleven!" (Which day, who knows?)

fwiw, since this thread launched I've talked with three Blichmann retailers and they all dislike the new design...

Cheers!

La_Moustachio said:

This is what I got back from Nick at Blichmann.

"We plan to discontinue the G1 design. We have a few kettles left for purchase in our facility and some of our larger retailers still have our kettles in stock. They have been instructed to sell these at a discount to make room for new G2 kettles. I would suggest contacting Great Fermentations, MoreBeer, Adventures in Homebrewing for further assistance with ordering or to check if they have G1 kettles in stock. If you have further questions please let me know. Have a great day."

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

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Blichmann really pissed me off with killing G1 ... At least a few month to 1 year warning would be nice about discontinuing G1 kettles line!

I started building my system in February 2014 with a single Blichmann 15 gal mashtun. I was ready to purchase 2 more kettles in June, but my LBHS could not get any info from Blichmann on purchasing kettles WITH brewcoil installed at the factory. So in August LBHS called me and said "Blichmann discontinued G1, best of luck with you system now!". I am now looking online for G1 and not quite following the above info from Blichmann:

1. We have a few kettles left for purchase in our facility and some of our larger retailers still have our kettles in stock.
Really Blichmann? My LBHS could not order it since the beginning of August!

2. They have been instructed to sell these at a discount to make room for new G2 kettles.
Oh yeah?? Can you show me which retailer has them at discount?

3. Above mentioned web retailers only have G1 kettles with COSMETIC DEFECT at 10%, which IMHO is an option, but not for me! I want to get a brand spanking new NO DEFECTS kettle.


If they discontinued G1 kettles without any warning, can they drop all G1 accessories overnight too, such as false bottom for example? So what if it some how break on me 2 years down the road? How would "lifetime warranty" apply in this case? 15 gal false bottoms from G2 is NOT compatible with G1


I am so disappointed that if I can sell my 6 months old G1 mashtun now at a slight loss, I will most likely invest my money into Braumeister 50 liter brewing system - it comes in cheaper then a DIY Blichmann system with 3 vessels and my own control panel.

Or will look at different kettle brands and save $$$.

Thanks Blichmann!

I was waiting to get my new BK for a E-HERMs system, but wanted it to match my HLT and MT. I ordered one of the "cosmetic defect" kettles from Adventures in Homebrewing at a discount. I've tried to find the defect, and I can't.... It drop-shipped from Blichmann, so I think they are just running out the stock (with or without defects). If they have more, my $.02 would be to try and get one.

The line formed behind me

I don't think this whole thing rises to the level of "New Coke", but the three retailers I spoke to, aside from their way less than enthusiastic response to the Gen-2 kettles, agreed it might have been managed better.

And with that, let me be the first to predict that the Gen-1 kettles will reappear as a premium-priced product. Because, let's face it, at the end of the day this was a huge manufacturing cost reduction exercise, and if you amortize the die cost at a contract deep draw manufacturer over 30 years, each basic kettle becomes nearly as cheap as the raw material to produce...

Cheers!

vash68 said:

3. Above mentioned web retailers only have G1 kettles with COSMETIC DEFECT at 10%, which IMHO is an option, but not for me! I want to get a brand spanking new NO DEFECTS kettle.

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Honestly the factory 'blemished' ones are generally indistinguishable from a new one. When I bought my 30, me and the LHBS looked for at least 30 minutes and couldn't find a blemish.

This whole thing about Blichmann telling retailers to discount G 1 pots is crazy: 1. We never got the email 2. Who in their right mind would discount the pot and make even less money on an item with poor margins. Thanks Blichmann for allowing me to make even less on your product! You got your money, the discount comes out of my profit! How dare you!

day_trippr said:

The line formed behind me

I don't think this whole thing rises to the level of "New Coke", but the three retailers I spoke to, aside from their way less than enthusiastic response to the Gen-2 kettles, agreed it might have been managed better.


Cheers!

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It is funny that you mention New Coke, because that was exactly the analogy that came to mind. They tend to promote their new products well in advance of the roll out. In this case, it was a bit of a surprise. My guess is they knew this wasn't going to be well received.

I was considering matching my 20 gal BK with a MLT, but if they are not going to match, I guess I'll just polish a keggle I already own.

@vash68 - In regards to the false bottoms, Blichmann says they will continue to manufacture the G1 versions (only matters for 15 and 20 gal) as long as there is a demand. Also in terms of other accessories, I know that the dip tube assembly is the same for both models so you'd be good on that front. If in the future you (or anyone for that matter) needed something else that is not cross compatible, they'd do something to help you out because they stand behind their products.

If anyone is interested, we've got all versions (except the 55 gal) of the G1 SD pots up on our site for sale. They would drop ship from Blichmann. PM me with any questions related to this as to not throw this thread off.

Cheers!
Bryan

TobyG said:

Honestly the factory 'blemished' ones are generally indistinguishable from a new one. When I bought my 30, me and the LHBS looked for at least 30 minutes and couldn't find a blemish.

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Toby, I hear lots of positive comments on blemished kettles, and I wish I was that lucky, however, my experience was different.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/these-blichmann-boilermaker-cosmetic-defects-455353/

And purely mentally, after paying $400-500 I should not be looking at a blemished product. These kettles are overpriced to begin with, so they set high expectations. Blichmann needs a serious competition.

However, I may still bite a bullet and play 'blemished' lottery to match my MLT.

All 3 of my cosmetic defect 20 Gallon kettles looked great. Then again, I've never seen a brand new one. My 10 gallon was used and everyone in my Homebrew club that has one has, well, used theirs. It's cosmetic only. Everything functions and I'm going to ding them up I'm sure. To each their own.

Good to know the other false bottoms will still interchange at least. Trying to be positive.

Amen to Kals comment about cleaning, or lack there of, of hot side valves. However, I rather like the design of these, but I can see the size and drastic new outlet config being problematic to many with existing brewstands. And if your hose is kinking, buy better hose. Thinwall silicone at the lhbs is garbage.
The fact that the shapes of these pots were changed such that existing accessories, like the false bottoms and such, do not work with them is a failure in design, imho. I can guess why this is so (constraints of the manufacturer's tools dictating shape and size) but it still hurts.

Induction capable equipment would be nice as well.

I ordered a new 30 gal G2 from AIH about a week ago. It will be my first upgrade from a 3-keggle single tier system.

I poured over all the major brands: Spike, stout, brugear, etc. and the added cost for the Blichmann G2 wasn't that much considering volume/feature set. I was interested in the BruGear equipment, but I'm tired of waiting for something to ship (not to mention scouring the web finds no real-pictured finished products).

Overall it was about $600 for the 30gal G2 + HopBlocker($59) (free shipping! thanks AIH) and that provided me about $30 in rewards credits from AIH for some accessories.

As someone who is upgrading from keggles, I'm excited for the upgrade.

I can see someone who has invested in the gen 1 pots wanting to match the finish, but most of the other feedback in this thread seems to be just blich-bashing. Being in IT (Macintosh) this also looks a lot like an Android-club bashing the new iPhone or the opposite. No one has the product in hand nor has anyone received and used one yet.

I know I'll be happy with the pot, and I'll also be happy because I love the BrewingNetwork shows Blichmann supports. I'm a lazy Homebrew-talk user, but I'm happy to provide real-use feedback if anyone has specific questions after I receive and brew with the new pot.

Blichmann: If you see this (I know you and your guys read these), hurry up and drop ship my pot! It's been a week already Check my user name and you will recognize my real name on your waiting list.

Worst case scenario, I'm the only one who ordered one... so first to ship!

TobyG said:

Honestly the factory 'blemished' ones are generally indistinguishable from a new one. When I bought my 30, me and the LHBS looked for at least 30 minutes and couldn't find a blemish.

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Agreed, just received 2 20 gallons G1 with supposedly "cosmetic defect" and I'm still trying to find where it is.... got a good deal in my book...

Speaking with the owner of the largest hbs in New England, he got swamped with G1 kettle orders in the last couple of weeks (a whole bunch of 20g's in the mix). Aaaaand miraculously Blichmann keeps "discovering" more G1 pots in their remaining inventory.

They're supposedly cranked up to get the first wave of G2 kettles out the door so G1 orders may take a back seat during the launch, but it looks like if you got your order in for the "Blichmann Classic" kettle early there's a good chance you won't have to go shopping for an alternative...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

it looks like if you got your order in for the "Blichmann Classic" kettle early there's a good chance you won't have to go shopping for an alternative...

Cheers!

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day_trippr, do you mean there is a way to place an order for G1 NON-blemished kettles at this time? Do tell...