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mrdonbonjovi

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Hello everyone, I've been reading around here the past couple of days and decided to make my first post.
My girlfriend got me started with a Mr. Beer kit a couple of months ago but I've been thinking about upgrading to a bigger setup that lets me start to brew larger and more diverse batches. But I had a couple questions for you guys.

1. Carboy or Food Grade Bucket from a local hardware store? Is there any disadvantage to using a bucket for a primary and secondary fermenter? It seems much cheaper. Just need to drill a hole in the lid for an air lock. I would end up getting 3 of the same size buckets (primary, secondary, and bottling buckets drilled and a spigot inserted). Also what gal size is the best?

2. What size pot for boiling?
 
I think these questions can be answered with one simple question to you. What size batches do you plan to brew? if you are going for 5 gallon batches, then 6.5 to 7 gallon buckets would be good. And I would say a minimum of a 5 gallon brew pot. Although with that size brew pot you probably won't be doing full boils. I have a 6 gallon glass carboy, although the Plastic "better bottle" carboys are cheap and just as good.
 
I think the advantages to using plastic is that it is cheaper, lighter, and easier to clean. I think the normal for bucket size is 6, or 6.5 gal.

For kettle size, I use a 4 gal. I think most people are going to say go with the biggest you can afford. Full boil would be better than partial. I am happy with my current setup.
 
First off, welcome to the forum! Are you planning on doing 5 gal batches? Extract batches? If yes to both of those, we bought a SS 24 qt pot from Amazon which allowed us to do a full boil (have to be careful!) on a gas stove. As for fermenters, bottling buckets and secondaries, buckets work great! We are currently using them as fermenters and bottling buckets. The only drawback is that you can't see what is going on inside (more for me because I would like to watch the yeasties). You don't have to worry about them breaking and slicing and if they get scratched, they are inexpensive and you can easily buy more. That said, if you want plastic and clear Better Bottles are nice, albeit a little pricey. Get 6.5 gallon buckets, they will give you the headroom so you won't have crazy blowoff. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
I would like to eventually move on to making enough beer to fill a homebrew keg (how many gallons?). So I think that answers my own question on bucket sizes. From my understanding the brew pot doesn't need to be as big as the buckets since water makes up most of the volume in the fermenter the volume of the wort that is boiled is a lot less?

For those of you that used buckets for the fermenters:
1. No modification to the bucket (I plan to siphon), just add a airlock to the lid?
2. I can use the same lid from primary to secondary?
3. Any advantage to using a lid like this opposed to the standard bucket lid?
 
Save yourself the trouble and just get a regular lid and drill a hole. A "homebrew keg" is a corny and holds 5 gallons. Yes, just add an airlock. You will make better beer if you can do a full boil (boil the entire volume together). Thus the larger pot. If you are brewing on an electric stove though, it may be hard to get that much wort boiling. The standard advice (already stated) is to get the biggest one you can, as at some point you may want to do partial mashes or go all grain and will have to have a bigger pot anyways. We sorta listened to this and have the 24 qt. Although we are going all grain and are getting MUCH bigger kettles anyways. Have a nice big soup pot now. :)
 
What I would do in your case is to at LEAST get an Ale Pail or equivalent from a homebrew store. With lid. I think the place down the road sells them for $12 a bucket and $2 for a lid. They are nice and have the gallons marked off on the side.

I would also spring for a kettle large enough to do full boils if you can. Stainless or Aluminum. (hint: turkey fryers come with aluminum kettles that are pretty good and inexpensive) If you don't want to spend the money on a large kettle, look into late extract additions.

I would consider looking at a "kit" of homebrewing equipment from a homebrew shop. you will get the bucket or carboy, and lots of other stuff that make homebrewing better and easier. A basic kit runs under $100 and a nice one for a little over.
 
I'm new to the brewing process and I like mirage am already looking for a larger brew pot. I'm probably going to go for a 10gallon pot. I feel this should allow me to do foil boils safely without running too much of a risk of boil over I'm also looking at pots with the ball valve and thermometer. I just don't want to have to buy another pot for a long long time.
 
Yea, I like Homer's suggestion. We purchased the kit (2 buckets, one with a spigot, capper, bottling wand, hose, racking cane etc) from Midwest supplies for like $80. It is a great place to start. Get a larger pot, we paid like $45 for our 24 qt. It will be fine for you for full boil extract and we used it for our Partials too (in conjuction with the cheap enameled lobster pot that everyone has in their basement). You won't regret it and if you are really serious about it, buy some kegs and start cutting (that is the route we are going). Grimm, you should look into that too. We have gotten 3 kegs so far and the most expensive one was $35. 15.5 gallons and just need tops cut and bulkheads ($26). Nice way to go for an inexpensive kettle.
 
I would like to eventually move on to making enough beer to fill a homebrew keg (how many gallons?). So I think that answers my own question on bucket sizes. From my understanding the brew pot doesn't need to be as big as the buckets since water makes up most of the volume in the fermenter the volume of the wort that is boiled is a lot less?

For those of you that used buckets for the fermenters:
1. No modification to the bucket (I plan to siphon), just add a airlock to the lid?
2. I can use the same lid from primary to secondary?
3. Any advantage to using a lid like this opposed to the standard bucket lid?

dont siphon it with your mouth =(
 
Yea, I have been reluctant to purchase an auto siphon because I have heard that they will break over time (develop cracks). But I guess $12 is a lot cheaper and less time consuming than having to cry and pour 5 gal of beer down the drain or water the lawn.
 
I started out with the full setup from Midwest Supplies that included all buckets, siphons, tubing, caps, 2 cases of bottles, capper, pot, and a recipe kit...for only $169.99. I added a wort chiller...which to this point I could NOT have lived without. Start out small and work your way up...once you get a few brews under your belt you will be able to decide what equipment you need and what you do not need. Good luck, and cheers!
 
LMAO, yea, or if you are too lazy to start it proper (like us) swish with LOTS of vodka beforehand. Haha, good times!!

hahaha... That is how I was taught at the LHBS that gave a class on homebrewing. I was eyeballing the bottle of vodka throughout the class, wondering what the F it was for.
 
LMAO! Are you serious?? Hahaha, no, don't do it like that. We are just lazy. Auto siphon or fill the tube full of water first (unless you are as lazy as us and then swish away!). LOL, that is hilarious!
 
i use the water trick, it's not to hard to get it going that way., but you do waste a little beer.
Mirage, where do you get the kegs? the pot i was looking at was over $200 which is more than my entire kit. It just looked like it would be the best pot and would last me a long time and aloow for my brewing growth.
 
I tried to get them legal ways, but without any success over many months, I just posted some ads on CL. That too took a while but I finally have two kegs. Both had been sitting around for a while. I am sure the pot you were looking at is WAY nicer than these will be, but they will be comparable size for a fraction of the cost. I think I am going to have spent around $250 total for a cooler, 2 kegs, ball valves and all the extra pieces necessary and have a full AG setup. Been a work in progress for a month or so but closing in on cutting day. So far have the two kegs fully polished. Search "Keggle" on the forum and you will see the pots. They are very versatile and I think that if we ever want something a little nicer, we will definitely get our money back. We went the weldless ball valve route as well, so if you want it welded, plan on spending more. The kegs themselves were cheap enough and I am sure I could have gotten every one of them for $20 if I had wanted to. I just didn't want to offend anyone.
 
Yea, we got the $60 kit. I was mistaken. Just get the one with the carboy too as earwig said if you plan on using a secondary. You won't look back. :)
 
A few other items I can't live without now that I have them... you may want to get them up front! I am not suggesting that you buy them from these suppliesr/stores, just providing the links so you can check out the products.

Bottle drying tree: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/45-bottle-drying-tree.html

Star-San: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/io-star.html

Bottle Jet Washer: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/jet-bottle-washer.html

Some extra muslin bags (large and small) http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=379

Avinator bottle rinser: http://www.beer-winemakers.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=55&idcategory=52

A digital instant read probe cooking thermometer: http://tinyurl.com/yejjo3j

Some extra siphon tubing: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/3-8-siphon-tubing-per-foot.html - so you can go from the spigot on the bottling bucket into the bottles without having to use the same siphon tube. I would say to get a 1 foot section to bottle with.

OxyClean Free: http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...m=oxiclean_versatile_stain&CAWELAID=220130589

A spray bottle (for star san)

Some scour pads
 
Okay guys don't start telling him that he needs to spend $200+ on stuff, that's pure BS. Brewing can be extremely simple, people just keep buying themselves things because they think they need it.

A couple of the following aren't required, but the alternatives aren't very friendly. This is what I am going to say you should have at the minimum:

1. Two buckets. A fermenting bucket with a lid and a bottling bucket with a spigot (lid is optional but recommended)
2. Some tubing for siphoning/bottling/blow-off (just get 15 feet or so because its cheap and handy for other things)
3. Autosiphon. yes I am putting this under requirements.
4. A good no rinse sanitizer, I like StarSan.
5. If you wish to bottle using glass, then you will need bottles, caps, and a capper.
6. Some sort of pot that can hold 2 gallons or more. (Highly recommended to get a large one)

I am assuming that you will have some basic things in your kitchen like a large spoon to stir, or a thermometer should you wish to monitor temperatures.


Things you don't need but will probably want eventually:
1. A temp gauge for your fermentor
2. Hydrometer. Yell at me all you want for not listing it under requirements, but I don't use one and don't think it's needed for basic brewing.
3. A very large brew kettle, 5 gallons is a great size. Any larger and it gets tough and dangerous to move around after boiling.
4. Copper wort chiller
5. Bottling wand
5. Friends to help
 
If you get the $60 kit, you cover everything on the mandatory list and a few things on the "non-mandatory" list. I personally think a bottling wand is mandatory because bottling is already an arduous task and the bottling wand makes it less so. I personally think all the things in the non-mandatory section are required except the wort chiller as an icewater bath for a 5 gal batch doesn't take too long. The other items may not be technically necessary to actually brew, but they are essential to trying to make better beer as they help to isolate problems. Temperature of the fermentation being one and missing starting and final gravities being another. But again, those things come with the kit and should be used. I agree though that you don't have to spend $200 on equipment if you are just starting. A large pot is something to definitely consider though seeing as how you have to buy one anyways. Just my .02
 
Okay guys don't start telling him that he needs to spend $200+ on stuff, that's pure BS. Brewing can be extremely simple, people just keep buying themselves things because they think they need it.

If you were talking to me... I wasn't telling him that he needs to buy everything I listed - I was just trying to help :) Of course you can use cheaper alternatives or do things differently, I was just making suggestions about products that have made my life a lot easier. :mug:
 
As mentioned by Mirage above, watching yeast go crazy in beer is its own amazing spectacle. Because of this important memory, it’s hard for me to recommend a white bucket for the primary (unless you’re already “over that”). If you’re not all revved up on getting your equipment now, try using freshly emptied 5 gal plastic water bottles (for primary and secondary) for a few rounds. They are effectively free, and cleaning is so darn easy (you just return them). You’ll just need a couple of #10 plugs to put air-locks in, assuming you want to rack to a secondary [which some would debate as even being needed], and a little bottling stick (now you can just use Coopers drops). That’s the ghetto rout.

Sounds like you may go with white plastic though. If so, and if you use Iodophor, be sure to follow directions so you don’t stain your rig – forever. I would just install spigots down the line vs. using the auto-siphon. But since I started with carboys, the auto-siphon just changed everything. It was miracle product in like 2002 or whatever – and to my mind is essential equipment. If you want to ferment to smaller 1 gal carboys, you’ll need the smaller diameter version too.

I dare say the biggest purchase “mistake” homebrewers claim making is getting anything less than a 30qt (7.5 gal) SS brew kettle. It doesn’t sound like you’re a quitter; so you’ll grow into it. Some may scoff at the large size, but I’ll bet even more people would up that to a 10gal. I have a cheesy electric home stove, yet can get a vigorous boil with a full batch, uncovered, no problem (albeit at sea level).

Do you have a ref. to support a 5 gal keg? Since you mentioned the keg, you may want to just use that as your secondary and force carbonate. In that way you can save a bucket (and the hassle). Then if you get a Blickman gun, you don’t need the bottling bucket either – nor the hassle of priming beer or having to wait three weeks for conditioning. Sometimes expensive equipment saves money. As my roommate said when I queried him about his new $250 wingtip shoes, he said: “I don’t make enough money to buy cheap shoes”. A classic truth! So beware the bumpkin too, who might try to steer you away from prideful ownership of quality gear that you will use to brew with your children and possibly grandchildren. I suspect the majority of long time homebrewers regret under spending and wanting upgrades than over spending up front. Sure, you don’t “need” any of this, but do you want it? Throw some perspective in: how many gallons of beer a year do you expect to make?

HomebrewBigRig.jpg
CheapHomeBrew_390.jpg


Lastly, regardless of what anyone says, and particularly if you’re doing smaller batches, I highly recommend completely bypassing the whole hydrometer hassle and just throwing another $20 at it and getting a Brix. Getting a few drops of liquid is just so much easier than getting out a cup or whatever to measure at various points. It pays for itself quickly in beer and time (and elegance.) Be sure and get the right model for homebrewing. Different models have different visual scales inside.

What I would do is go to your closest homebrew shop, if you are blessed to have one within driving distance, and patron them with your business. This will go a long way to helping your beer taste better (Read: the flow of knowledge.) That being said, the two exceptions of all your equipment may be the SS kettle and the Brix, which can be as much as half price on Amazon and eBay respectively, which is where I got mine.

(Wait – those are the only things I really mentioned. Some would say, “It’s the thought that counts”. Also, I’m totally new to this board, so probably should STFU and read more before I post. I just wish someone would have written me this email when I was staring off – as cliché as that sounds.)

Lastly, let me make it very clear that Isla scotch (preferably Lagavulin or Laphroig) is what land wights prefer in air-locks (would you want just water?). Indeed the wee people consume some over the course of a couple weeks. Your beer cannot be guaranteed to be looked over by them if you skimp on the air-lock juice.

Good luck in the great quest!
 
Hmm, I might try the brix with the hydrometer for a couple of batches. Does this one look okay?

And my understanding is to ensure it works there are a couple calculators I can use:
http://brew.stderr.net/refractometer.html
http://onebeer.net/refractometer.shtml
And I really like this last one as it allows me to record my information...
http://morebeer.com/public/beer/refractbeer.xls

Even if the conversion is off I won't get an accurate ABV but I can still tell when fermentation has completed when the Brix level stops changing?
 
If you were talking to me... I wasn't telling him that he needs to buy everything I listed - I was just trying to help :) Of course you can use cheaper alternatives or do things differently, I was just making suggestions about products that have made my life a lot easier. :mug:

No no! not you specific. I just mean that in general, I see a lot of people talking about all the stuff you "need" for brewing and then they tell someone to spend $250 worth of stuff. You could brew with nothing more than your kettle if you really wanted to!
 
I like what ipso is saying. The secondary in the corny is a great idea as you can get a corny keg for around $20-$25. You also don't need the Blichman beer gun to transfer if you don't want to spend the money. There is a thread on here called "we don't need no stinkin beer gun" and there are instructions on how to make your own (apparently a lot cheaper than buying one). Good advice by all though! I am sure you will be all set up in no time!
 
Hmm, I might try the brix with the hydrometer for a couple of batches. Does this one look okay?

And my understanding is to ensure it works there are a couple calculators I can use:
http://brew.stderr.net/refractometer.html
http://onebeer.net/refractometer.shtml
And I really like this last one as it allows me to record my information...
http://morebeer.com/public/beer/refractbeer.xls

Even if the conversion is off I won't get an accurate ABV but I can still tell when fermentation has completed when the Brix level stops changing?



Can anyone confirm my last question? I also have another question. When going from primary to secondary or bottling bucket using an auto siphon what do people do to keep the crap at the bottom of the fermenter from transfering buckets?
 
the racking cane usually has a little cap on it to help reduce the possibility of sucking up the sediment. But I personally also stop the siphon leaving an inch or so left in the carboy so i don't suck up the sediment.
 
Yea, just hold the racking cane above the trub. As it gets shallower, gently tilt the fermenter towards you and try not to agitate the trub. Then you can rack a bit more, but you always lose some beer. Sorry, I have never used a refractometer so I don't know about calibration and whatnot. They looks pretty awesome though, so as soon as my hydrometer breaks I know what I will be getting. If you find out the answer to that, please post it here. :)
 
Can anyone confirm my last question? I also have another question. When going from primary to secondary or bottling bucket using an auto siphon what do people do to keep the crap at the bottom of the fermenter from transfering buckets?
I don’t know about the brand/seller/shipping price, but the eBay Brix you linked to earlier has 0-32 scaling, ATC, and is for brewing (so probably shows a “% alcohol” value in the viewfinder, vs. some other obscure value), so = check.

The links you found are exactly what I copied from/tweaked in my own spreadsheet. (You can just look at the html source code to get those differing calcs, that is only if you want to modify the XLS and reconcile/understand all the various calcs you will find out there, and maybe craft up something for pre-boil gravity – but all that detail should be its own thread.)

And yes to your last question, no Brix change = no beer change (even if calibration is off – although I’ve never had a calibration problem. Brix has matched hydrometer OG perfectly for many years. In fact, I giggle every time it matches, so I keep the hydrometer around).

All that being said, relative to an exacting FG calc, I should make it clear that I’m more of a .05 guy, if you know what I mean. I could really care less if my beer is 7.0 or 6.5 alcohol, for example, as long as it tastes good. I dink around with the numbers, just as a mater of course, but more exacting people may not as amenable to the luxuries of the Brix.

Indeed, using math in general when homebrewing seems like cheating to me. I’m not trying to auto-land a plane; I’m trying to hit a baseball. So by analogy, when you throw a baseball straight up in the air, and as it falls, take your bat and crack the living **** out of it, and it goes towering far and long, and you have that bat-feel resonation & swing form – THAT is how I calculate beer making. Completely internal, based on experience. “We don’t need no stinking calculators to brew beer!” (if I may coin a phrase)

Relative to the racking cane, Grimm & Mirage gave you the straight dope: canes have a little black cap that effectively raises the end of the tube up a bit so that some measure of bottom liquid will remain left behind. As does Mirage, I’ll tip the source bucket to pool more liquid, but I’ve never lifted the cane up to gain extra clearance. I’m happy to get a bit’a extra bottom-stuff. “It makes my beer go to 11”.

goes_to_11.jpg
 
Love that pic!! I also end up getting some extra trub in the bottling bucket usually when we stop paying attention to the racking cane (take the relax and have a homebrew to heart while bottling and brewing).
 
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