Beer yeast with cider

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kevinstan

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I have only made cider so far with Nottingham Ale yeast. I like it, but want to try something different. Has anyone used any other beer yeasts with any luck ? Everyone seems to like the Nottingham ale but my LHBS has some Belgium ale yeast and lager yeasts and stuff also. Just thinking about trying something different.
 
I've got a batch of cider going with S-04. It is taking FOREVER to ferment out. It has been over a month at this point and it is still chugging downwards. I did another batch with champagne yeast and it was done in like a week and a half.

Anyone else have this experience with ale yeast in cider?
 
I made a batch last year using S-04. I wanted a cider that didn't attenuate quite as much as the stuff I make with champagne yeast. I wasn't happy with it...it had a strange off-flavor, almost acetone-like. That may have been due to the yeast, or it could have been due to the cider used--by that point in the year I couldn't find fresh from the local orchards and was using store-bought instead. So that may have been a factor as well. At any rate, I wouldn't recommend it.
 
LeBreton said:
I've had nice flavor results using S-23 lager yeast. I say go for it.

I also have had a good cinnamon flavored cider done with S-23 lager yeast. I would hesitate to use something too 'beercentric' unless you go all the way over to the Saison yeast side to bring out some spice/clove notes. But, I tend to use wine yeasts, so that's my two cents.
 
I have 6 gallons, 3 each with S-04 and Montrachet. When I tested SG a couple weeks ago, about 2 weeks after pitching, one was about 1.02, the other was .98. They fermented at approximately the same rate, but I didn't check until 2 weeks, I didn't really care as I was waiting for clarification anyway, but I checked out of curiosity. The samples did taste different, but it was negligible in my opinion, neither was better or worse, just different. Bottling today, just can't seem to wait any longer for clarification.....
 
I have a batch going with EC1118 right now... because I am hardcore like that :rockin:

Actually, its really because I had some lying around.
 
Doongie said:
I have 6 gallons, 3 each with S-04 and Montrachet. When I tested SG a couple weeks ago, about 2 weeks after pitching, one was about 1.02, the other was .98. They fermented at approximately the same rate, but I didn't check until 2 weeks, I didn't really care as I was waiting for clarification anyway, but I checked out of curiosity. The samples did taste different, but it was negligible in my opinion, neither was better or worse, just different. Bottling today, just can't seem to wait any longer for clarification.....

After sampling during bottling today, I think I like the Montrachet better right now. The S-04 is a bit more agressive. It's not terrible, but the Montrachet is just easier to drink.

They have both been in the better bottles for 6 weeks, not crystal clear, but acceptable. Both came down to .980 from 1.060 (from the orchard with no additional sugar), looks like they are at about 10.5% abv.

I came to this test by browsing the sticky mentioned above, I thought I would find out what I liked. We'll see after conditioning, but for now I prefer the Montrachet.
 
Interesting. Even the S-04 went to .980? I would have thought it would have Less attenuation than the Montrachet yeast...

Isn't that the point of trying to use beer yeasts? The lower attenuation levels?
 
WilliamSlayer said:
Interesting. Even the S-04 went to .980? I would have thought it would have Less attenuation than the Montrachet yeast...

Isn't that the point of trying to use beer yeasts? The lower attenuation levels?

I have never fermented cider before, so I had no preconcieved notions about what might be too dry or too sweet, I did the test because I was interested in variety. Now that you mention it, it would seem maybe beer yeast wouldn't ferment out as low as wine yeast. I did not use anything but Pectic enzyme, so it is entirely possible I had wild yeast in there. I did notice one started much faster than the other, but I did not take notes. Maybe the slow starter actually is wild yeast, and not beer yeast, or even a combination. I assume they did ferment differently though, the trub in one was a different color and the other, and final product is a different color. I'll chalk up the low fg to wild yeast.
 
I follow the theory. I 'd love to hear from a few other folks on this topic. Anyone else find that their beer yeast ferments out to dryness when used on a cider?
 
I'll chime in with a solid "sometimes"... Haha. When I was still bottling, I was on a mission to find a yeast that was low attenuating, so I could ferment all the way, then just prime. I don't enjoy pasteurizing. I've had Nottingham stop early a couple times, Us-05 goes dry, weihenstephan leaves some sugars behind, pacman goes dry. Just my experience. I'm now onto ec-1118, and rudeshiemer (sp?) Wine yeasts and kegging. I'm a huge fan of backsweetening now.
 
ColbyJack said:
I'll chime in with a solid "sometimes"... Haha. When I was still bottling, I was on a mission to find a yeast that was low attenuating, so I could ferment all the way, then just prime. I don't enjoy pasteurizing. I've had Nottingham stop early a couple times, Us-05 goes dry, weihenstephan leaves some sugars behind, pacman goes dry. Just my experience. I'm now onto ec-1118, and rudeshiemer (sp?) Wine yeasts and kegging. I'm a huge fan of backsweetening now.

I also was not interested in stovetop pasteurizing, and I don't have enough space to cold crash (which isn't a guarantee of stopping activity anyway, and I am not interested in bottle bombs from misjudging sg) another part of my test was to let them go all the way, then prime and bottle.
 
Gonna start another 5 gal. using Nottingham Ale yeast. The instructions are very specific for beer use. I usually make a yeast starter with unsweetened apple juice for champagne yeast. What do you all use for Notty with good results?
 
This thread is very interesting to me because I've only used champagne and wine yeast But really want to do some ale yeast so this helps out tons, thanks guys...
I have done batches with EC-1118, D47 But my plan was to get about five batches going All with different beer yeasts.. Nottingham ale, S04 and 4766 And then I need to find two others, if anyone has anything they would like to recommend. I don't think that last one i mentioned is a beer yeast though, I think it's in English cider yeast but I'm not hundred percent on that...

I think you're totally on the right track dude just go for it
:mug:
 
WilliamSlayer said:
Badger, as a suggestion, try Wyeast 1968 (English ESB) for the low attenuation rate.

Ok... I will use that in one of these batches, but can you explain attenuation? I've heard this word before on HB talk but don't understand...
Is this the rate of fermentation?

Also, what's ESB?
 
Sure! Attenuation basically refers the percentage of fermentable sugars thhat a yeast strain will consume.

For wild yeasts and beer yeasts the percentage is less than 100, thus the reason why beer can taste sweet (there is still sugar there). This happens partly due to the fact that yeasts don't deal with complex sugars well, and beer wort often contains some of these.

Wine yeasts have been bred differently, in the way a Labrador is different from a Bulldog. Wine yeasts a designed to consume all available sugars, which is not hard with grapes as they contain very few complex sugars.
 
WilliamSlayer said:
Sure! Attenuation basically refers the percentage of fermentable sugars thhat a yeast strain will consume.

For wild yeasts and beer yeasts the percentage is less than 100, thus the reason why beer can taste sweet (there is still sugar there). This happens partly due to the fact that yeasts don't deal with complex sugars well, and beer wort often contains some of these.

Wine yeasts have been bred differently, in the way a Labrador is different from a Bulldog. Wine yeasts a designed to consume all available sugars, which is not hard with grapes as they contain very few complex sugars.

Great info Slayer! I had no idea of this b/c I'm pretty new to this. I though all yeast just eat all the sugar and the different strains where just different...? Like models of cars, they all drive but are just different...

Ok, so (not to hijack, but I think this is a valid cross-question for the thread) if beer yeast leaves some complex sugars and wine yeast eats it all up then if I'm using a wine yeast and fermentation sticks... (Ill use my batch of stuck cherry for example), added D47, started at 1.092, stuck at 1.034, SO, that being said, for wine yeast that's not normal BUT if I used a beer yeast would the beer yeast have NATURALLY stopped where it did, possibly? Putting my FG at the same place it is now 1.030? I'm at about 7%. So what I meant to say is wine yeast will ferment out but beer yeast won't?
Splain me.... Lol :)
 
My understanding is that beer yeast strains just aren't as tolerant of the higher alcohol levels of wine yeasts, so trying to ferment a high gravity wine with an ale yeast will result in the yeast pooping out after it reaches 10% abv. (give or take) And because of the strain you will get some different flavor profile characteristics than you would from a wine yeast.

You drive from point A to point B in a Ferrari...you feel cool and people turn their heads...the same trip can be done in a Pinto, but you are always looking over your shoulder so you don't get rear ended and BLOW UP! The Ferrari is a specialize vehicle to get from A to B, and the Pinto is like bread yeast...sure...it will get you buzzed, but people won't compliment you on how sexy it is. (or maybe they will)

Also, ale yeasts won't eat the complex sugars...no yeast deals with them all that well. (like the drunk cousin who shows up unannounced - You let him hang around because it's a melting pot and...holy crap the stories you can tell on Monday morning!) The wort from beer contains the complex sugars (cousin joe) so that is why beer doesn't typically go dry. Ciders and Fruit Juices go dry because they are ALL simple sugars. It doesn't matter what yeast stain you use in fruit juice...it will eventually eat all the simple sugars and go dry within it's alcohol and temp tolerances of course. (the strain will just give you a different profile and will have it's own parameters to work within)

I'm drinking cider getting ready for football playoffs, so maybe my analogies are wonky. ;)
 
Pickled_Pepper said:
You drive from point A to point B in a Ferrari...you feel cool and people turn their heads...the same trip can be done in a Pinto, but you are always looking over your shoulder so you don't get rear ended and BLOW UP! The Ferrari is a specialize vehicle to get from A to B, and the Pinto is like bread yeast...sure...it will get you buzzed, but people won't compliment you on how sexy it is. (or maybe they will)

I'm drinking cider getting ready for football playoffs, so maybe my analogies are wonky. ;)

No, your analogies are cool buddy :)
:mug:
 
has anyone used a belgian ale yeast or hefewitzen yeast in a cider? just did one notty and it pooped out a little shy of dry, i pitched sone d47 to dry out and prime/bottle...hope it works
 
I just had a bottle of my one year old weihenstephen cider, which is a wheat beer yeast. Worth checking out! Still tart, but a bit or residual sweetness. Its a nice drinking cider, but took some time to mellow.
 
StevenM said:
has anyone used a belgian ale yeast or hefewitzen yeast in a cider? just did one notty and it pooped out a little shy of dry, i pitched sone d47 to dry out and prime/bottle...hope it works

I just started some cider with a Belgian ale yeast. My last batch was with a champagne yeast and I think it just went super dry. I did not take OG readings. I think I should have. My first batch was with wild yeast and it turned out great. Hence I did not bother with the OG reading the last two rounds. Wishing I had.

Can you just take readings periodically and cold crash at a specific number to ensure a less dry cider? Does that kill remaining yeast. Or perhaps add something to kill them off.

Will the Belgium yeast peak at a specific abv which could leave me with some sweetness
 
I just started some cider with a Belgian ale yeast. My last batch was with a champagne yeast and I think it just went super dry. I did not take OG readings. I think I should have. My first batch was with wild yeast and it turned out great. Hence I did not bother with the OG reading the last two rounds. Wishing I had.

Can you just take readings periodically and cold crash at a specific number to ensure a less dry cider? Does that kill remaining yeast. Or perhaps add something to kill them off.

Will the Belgium yeast peak at a specific abv which could leave me with some sweetness

You sure can...I usually use a notty. Ale yeast for cider thot I'd do a d47. I like to cold crash around 1.020 to 1.010 if I catch it at 1.020 I dnt prime just bottle.and pasteurize. ( when its carbed of coarse) if I miss it I prime then bottle and past. ... I get around 5.5 to 6.5 abv....but I dnt have age as long as the higher abv guys do.
 
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