I've been bitten by the brewing bug - help me spend $$$ on brewdads!

Hey all,

Good news, I just bought a house and SWMBO says I can use the covered deck for brewing!

Bad news, my LHBS is a 5 hour drive from my new house. I was considering a bulk(for me) buy of grains and equipment to jump into all-grain with both feet. I know what kettle(s)/burners I want. I know I'm going to build a cooler MLT. I need help choosing my grain and hops buy. This is what I'm thinking so far:

1x 50 lb. bag British pale ale male (maris otter)
10x lbs American Wheat malt
20x lbs light crystal malt 20 lovibond (I was thinking if I want darker crystal I can roast it myself) like this
10x lbs rice hulls (is this way too much?)
5x lbs roasted barley (575 lovibond)
5x lbs chocolate malt (500 lovibond)

I think I should be able to make a bunch of different brews with the above list. I'm not super-concerned about being "on-style". I just want variety. Do i have a good ratio of base malt:specialty grains? Is there anything obviously missing?

As far as hops go, I am totally in the dark. I'm looking for something that's versatile, I don't want a ton of different varieties filling up the freezer. Are there any that work well for bittering AND flavour/aroma? I'm shopping at homebrew heaven. you'll have to click thru to the hops page. They seem to have a good selection of leaf and pellet hops (I've only used leaf before, but I am willing to try pellet). Any advice on quantities/types for the above grain buy would be hugely appreciated.

Yeast: I'll buy some packets of Nottingham. If I want something else, I'll just order it online (cheap delivery).

Way to go HBTers, you have created another monster!

The hole I see in the line up is you got nothing between 20L Crystal and 500L chocolate.

You got no 60L Crystal, no 120L Crystal, no cara malts. Are you trying to open a store, or what styles do you usually brew.

I got no problem with the MO, you'll definitely use that. 20 pounds of Crystal 20 would last me a really long time and I am a brewing fool.

What if you come up with three or four recipes that will use up (most of) the MO and get whatever specialty grains and hops for those batches?

Thanks poindexter!

I was going to roast the 20L crystal myself to get (approximately) 60L 120L etc. Maybe I should just suck it up and buy multiple varieties. I guess 20lbs of specialty malts is a lot for 60 lbs of base...

Keep it coming! Need more input!

As long as you know you're going to brew a lot, I'd stock up on base grains, hops and dry yeast, and buy your specialty grains and and liquid yeast on a per-batch (or group several batches) from your online source. I've brewed nearly 60 batches, and i doubt I've used 5 lb of chocolate, 40L crystal, or roasted barley yet.

Find a good source for bulk grain, and get a sack of Maris Otter, a sack of "American" 2-row, and a sack of wheat (10 lb won't get you through even a couple wheat beer recipes). Buy your hops from Hops Direct. If you're really dead set against having a bunch of varieties (this will change , get a minimum of a pound each of a clean neutral bittering hop (Magnum), one of the american citrus hops (I'd go Centennial, but Cascade and Amarillo would be good choices) and then either EKG (if you're partial to english ales) or a noble hop (Hallertauer) if you like continental styles.

10 pounds of rice hulls is a lot. You only need a handful in a batch where you're using a lot of something that's prone to getting stuck, like rye.

FlyingHorse said:

get a minimum of a pound each of a clean neutral bittering hop

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Three POUNDS of hops for 70 pounds of grain? Are you serious?

I'm thinking buying only base grains (maris otter, wheat, american ale) is sounding good and buying specialty grains/hops on a recipe by recipe basis. The only problem I see is that I live in Canada, and I get raped on the shipping from american suppliers. If anyone knows a good mail-order brewing supplier in Canada, fill me in. Keep in mind I have no LHBS (3-day trip by dogsled ).

AG I doubt you'll get a fifth batch out of that first bag of Marris Otter.

Come up with four recipes, get all that in one raping, you'll have what, 6 or 8 pounds of MO toward your fifth batch?

If you have the pipeline space just do that, then next round get a 50# sack of USA 2 row pale, finding a basic pale that uses a few pounds of MO in the grist is gonna keep you in fresh ingredients easy.

We got two LHBS in Fairbanks, one of them doesn't suck. Are you in YK, BC or other?

IRmeterman said:

Three POUNDS of hops for 70 pounds of grain? Are you serious?

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I think the main appeal there is that three pounds of hops from Hops Direct costs as much as 20 ounces or so at most retailers. You'd have some left over even if you were making really hoppy recipes, but mostly that it's a much better deal.

Poindexter said:

Are you in YK, BC or other?

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I'm in BC, moving to the interior. I have been going to Dan's Homebrewing Supplies in Vancouver, but the selection isn't that great (everything on the website isn't in the store).

SWMBO likes to cross-border shop (great Canadian pasttime) in Bellingham, and Homebrew Heaven is in Everett, Washington. I was thinking I'd get an order put together online and pick it up. From what I'm hearing, I'll probably buy 50# MO and 50# american 2-row. If hopsdirect is as good a deal with shipping, I'll take flyinghorse's suggestion.

Revised shopping list

grains
55# bag Maris Otter
50# bag American 2-row
20-25 lbs Wheat malt

hops
1lb- bittering hops (magnum... suggestions?)
0.5 each cascade (?), amarillo (?)
1lb- something else

3 packets nottingham (i can wash/re-use yeast)

order specialty grains/liquid yeasts as needed. I'm going to research recipes now, and maybe come up with a specialty grain bill for 5-6 recipes as suggested by poindexter.

The revised list looks good with the exception of the .5 of cascade/amarillo. Has to be whole pounds. I agree with the Hall for the 3rd lb, but don't know what you brew. EKG would also be good. Either the Cascade or the AM would be good for the 2nd lb. alot of versatility. Find a way to make smaller packages of the hops after they arrive. There are several threads here on that. I like Pol's idea best about using Mason Jars and just resealing after you use some.
I would get a few other dry yeasts as well. Maybe something like 2 Notty, US-04 and US-05, but that's for my style.
Coming up with a couple recipes at a time and ordering your grains would save you on shipping too. Just make sure you put in the notes that you want certain grains together and that it is for a couple different batches. HBS will work with you.
GOOD LUCK!

freshhops.com will let you order in half pound increments are not super pricey either.

chriswilkes33 said:

freshhops.com will let you order in half pound increments are not super pricey either.

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Actually they have a 12oz. minimum total, with a 2oz minimum per hop. That's why I order through them, it's cheap to try different hops without wasting them.

Searching for online sources that are shipping from within Canada:

Mashing Heads : looks like the best deals for Canadian AG brewers....they have flat shipping rates for all the provinces: but note that BC is the most expensive.

Clickabrew Wine & Beer Making Supplies -

homebrew-supplies

When I stocked up, I bought two sacks of base grain, and about 50lbs total of various specialties. I bought 3lbs of hops then, and just ordered two more. $22 a pound is a LOT better than $3.5 per OUNCE. I also picked up a FoodSaver to portion them out. I also bought a sack of rice hulls, because the proportional difference made it appealing - $30 for 50lbs. It'll take me a while to use it, but we've taken a liking to wheat beers, and I won't have to worry about running out.

OK, so the Vancouver LHBS may not be so bad... the selection of ingredients is good, but the gear is nearly non existent. I went in there for a bottling bucket (or a spigot) and the guy said "we don't sell those, because you should siphon when you bottle". For burners and kettles, he'll just point down the street to the restaurant supply store (I have used the burners from there... probably couldn’t handle a 10 gallon boil). Anyways, enough complaining. Ingredients list version 3.0 follows, I think we're getting close here:

Grains:
25 kg bag Gambrinus ESB (search forums it's a British style Pale malt)
25 kg bag Gambrinus 2-row (american style pale malt)
20 lbs. wheat malt
3 lbs rice hulls
Should I get plastic buckets to store grain? Or will the sacks be ok as long as the grain isn't crushed?

Hops:
I'm getting galena for my bittering hops because it's got a nice, high AA% and they (internet people) say galena stores really well.
1 lb. Galena (pellets) (I would have like whole leaf for my bittering hops, but freezer space is limited)
1 lb. Goldings (pellets)
1 lb. Centennial (pellets)

Yeast:
3 packs nottingham yeast
2 packs Lalvin EC-1118 (for apfelwein, when I'm too lazy to brew hehehe)
Since I’m using dry yeast, I don’t need any DME for starters, right?

Any comments, questions, suggestions? Everyone's tips have been awesome. I feel like I'm prepared to jump into AG. To be honest this list came together quicker than I anticipated. I won't be able to build my brewery for another month. But when I do, I'll take pics and post some beer pron. I was going to list the dollar cost of each line item, but time marches on, and I’m sleepy.

Is there a reason why you're buying in bulk now, even though you're just starting in AG brewing? My 2 cents....save the bulk of your money after you've done a couple AG brews. I think it might be best to just order per recipe requirement just so that you can see what particular grains you go through on a regular basis. The reason why I say this, I notice you're already thinking about several batches worth of wheat recipes and some ecclectic British 2 row malt over regular OM or modified American malt. Beer brewing is just like anything else...KISS: keep it simple (stupid). I'm always adhering to that for everything (especially since I have many interests, so that I'm always having to keep it simple for myself!! )

I'm getting Gambrinus because I drive past the maltster on my way to work, and it's the only british-style malt available at my LHBS. I would get MO if they had it. Same for the 2-row. It should still end up tasting like beer, right?

IRmeterman said:

I would get MO if they had it. Same for the 2-row. It should still end up tasting like beer, right?

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I wouldn't assume that. I personally haven't heard of Gambrinus ESB malt before...but then again, I don't specialize in British beers. The main thing I'd stress is that it shouldn't be interchangable with MO. MO was the first modified English pale malt, and it's normally thought of as the most effient of the British malts. What are your usual styles now? If anything, I'd probably argue that whatever commonly available 2-row malt you have now will be good for most styles. The difference might be some British ale styles that could do better with MO (which is more of a "biscuit" flavor over American 2 row) or a Pilsner Malt if you like lagers. But then again, this is another reason not to buy in bulk yet....best to experiment and try these differences to see what you like before commiting to 50 lbs of it!

*edit*...this is the most immediate link I've found with "ESB malt" appropriately, a HBT link! https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/extra-special-british-malt-99475/ My two cents....doesn't seem like a good MO substitute to me.