adding to beer kits ?

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darragh

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im just wondering is it possible to add extras to the beer kits they sell at the lbh or are these set in stone .iv see posts and threads about adding honey,dme etc to increase abv and flavour,colour, etc.if it is possible do i need to alter fermenting temp or increase fermenting length ? .do i need to add extra yeast to ferment the extra sugars or dme thats has been added ? honestly have no clue thanks in advance
 
darragh said:
im just wondering is it possible to add extras to the beer kits they sell at the lbh or are these set in stone .iv see posts and threads about adding honey,dme etc to increase abv and flavour,colour, etc.if it is possible do i need to alter fermenting temp or increase fermenting length ? .do i need to add extra yeast to ferment the extra sugars or dme thats has been added ? honestly have no clue thanks in advance

You can but keep in mind that recipes are all about balance of hops and malts. If you play with one you need to adjust the other to maintain that balance.

IMHO you brew the kit as is. If you are looking for a different type of beer then find a kit the fits what you are looking for. Example, if you want an 8% beer don't mess with a 5% and try and make it 8, just find one that already is designed to be 8%
 
If you want to get more technical I used to steep a small amount of grain before the boil to give a recipe a few more fermentables sugars and helps to give you more of brewing concept.
 
What kind of kits are you talking about? All grain or extract + hop boiling kits are probably fairly complete and won't need any additions.

The no-boil kits that are just a can of pre-hopped malt extract and a packet of dry yeast can be improved by not following the original recipe: using a different yeast, different adjunct fermentables (e.g. if it asks for plain sugar, use DME instead) or dry hopping.
 
It really helps if you plug the recipe into a calculator(I use Hopville.com).
That way you can see what you start with and what any possible additions or changes will do to your OG and FG, color, IBUs.
I almost always play around with a kit, generally by adding enough grains to make it a partial mash(which usually means subtracting some of the LME/DME), sometimes changing the hops, sometimes changing the yeast strain. I enjoy the experimentation. And yes, when cooking food I usually change the recipe as well.:)
 
Think of what you might want to add to a batch and do a search. In the past I've added coffee and vanilla beans to extract and partial boil kits and they turned out very good.
 
thanks again for the support. probably the boil kits i havent come across any non boil kits as of yet im buying from a supermarket chain in ireland maybe thats y ?. il check out the hopsville calculator and see if i can figure something out as i want to experiment and i also do the same when cooking lol
 
thanks again for the support. probably the boil kits i havent come across any non boil kits as of yet im buying from a supermarket chain in ireland maybe thats y ?. il check out the hopville calculator and see if i can figure something out as i want to experiment and i also do the same when cooking lol
 
You know, this was one of the things that encouraged me to go to kitless brewing after my second kit. When I buy a box of cake mix it has instructions for making it, but it also includes options for spicing things up, like adding chocolate chips to the chocolate cake mix or swirling rasberry jam into the white when you put it in the pan. Why don't beer kits have something similar, eg. replace yeast with type X, or soak some oak chips in bourbon and add to the secondary?

So, here's a challenge for the experienced brewers on the list: what are some well-defined modifications that can be made to a specific kit to change the outcome of the brew? And please note, when I say "well-defined" I mean, "replace the 60 minute hop addition with 1.5 oz Hallertau pellets" and not "throw some different hops in".

I'm hoping that these mods will give a safe experimentation plain for newer brewers to play on and maybe more experienced brewers can breathe new life into the kits.
 
If you want to mess with kits, get a better yeast before you try anything else. You will have much better results doing the kit as instructed but swapping the dry kit yeast for the appropriate wyeast or WLP yeast than you ever will by adding extra hops, honey, etc. The little foil pack of poorly stored dry yeast is the biggest problem that needs to addressed.
 
bergy said:
You know, this was one of the things that encouraged me to go to kitless brewing after my second kit. When I buy a box of cake mix it has instructions for making it, but it also includes options for spicing things up, like adding chocolate chips to the chocolate cake mix or swirling rasberry jam into the white when you put it in the pan. Why don't beer kits have something similar, eg. replace yeast with type X, or soak some oak chips in bourbon and add to the secondary?

So, here's a challenge for the experienced brewers on the list: what are some well-defined modifications that can be made to a specific kit to change the outcome of the brew? And please note, when I say "well-defined" I mean, "replace the 60 minute hop addition with 1.5 oz Hallertau pellets" and not "throw some different hops in".

I'm hoping that these mods will give a safe experimentation plain for newer brewers to play on and maybe more experienced brewers can breathe new life into the kits.

So...... In other words you would like the more experienced brewers to essentially create alternative recipes for you? How about perusing the recipe wiki?

It's not really as easy as you think. If you have a recipe and would like someone to take a look and make a recommendation then post the recipe:)
 
So...... In other words you would like the more experienced brewers to essentially create alternative recipes for you? How about perusing the recipe wiki?

It's not really as easy as you think. If you have a recipe and would like someone to take a look and make a recommendation then post the recipe:)

+1. It's like saying "I'm new to cooking, please give me some recommendations as to how I can modify soup recipes to change the outcome". What kind of soup? What kind of outcome do you want to change - more flavor, different flavor, more complex character, more or less difficult to make ... the list would be endless. So it would be with beer. Much better to post a specific recipe and ask about modifications that way.
 
the problem i have is the extra ingredients are almost always the same brands the kits eg youngs or coopers .the yeast packets just read youngs or youngs cider etc i cant find any named strains like i see posted on here at my local lbh are the branded ones the same you get in the kit ? if so i assume they wont be up to scratch for adding improvements.ordering online is an option but post and packaging can be expensive to ireland
 
So I started a batch this weekend and I plan on adding to the Kit I bought. This is the first time I will be adding or going out side the receipe from the Kit. I am very excited since I see this as my first step to making my own brews from
scratch. what I am adding is as simple as Vanilla to the secondary fermentation process. Hope it turns out great. As far as I have read adding to the kits it part of it but yes depending on what you are doing to it may determine the outcome of what else you need to add.
 
the problem i have is the extra ingredients are almost always the same brands the kits eg youngs or coopers .the yeast packets just read youngs or youngs cider etc i cant find any named strains like i see posted on here at my local lbh are the branded ones the same you get in the kit ? if so i assume they wont be up to scratch for adding improvements.ordering online is an option but post and packaging can be expensive to ireland

My local store sounds like yours- it's just a corner in the back of a health food store and only carries 1 brand of kits and a few extras. However they do carry extra grains, and a few packets of different hops, so I use that to change things up. I do have a larger, much better stocked store about 45 minutes away, and I stock up when I drive up to 'the big city'. Of course I do have the luxary of ordering online and having it delivered within a week, so I definitely take advantage of that a couple times a year. Sorry for my ignorance- are there any online stores in Ireland?
 
the problem i have is the extra ingredients are almost always the same brands the kits eg youngs or coopers .the yeast packets just read youngs or youngs cider etc i cant find any named strains like i see posted on here at my local lbh are the branded ones the same you get in the kit ? if so i assume they wont be up to scratch for adding improvements.ordering online is an option but post and packaging can be expensive to ireland

I guess I take for granted how great my LHBS is for its yeast selection (most wyeast packs are stocked and often less than a week old). There is also the fermentis safale and saflager dry yeasts that pretty good and would probably travel by mail better than a live liquid product. You could also talk a local brewery or other homebrewers (if you have any) and see if you can get some yeast from them. If you get a good strain of yeast, definitely learn about yeast harvesting so you can keep it going for multiple batches.
 
You know, this was one of the things that encouraged me to go to kitless brewing after my second kit. When I buy a box of cake mix it has instructions for making it, but it also includes options for spicing things up, like adding chocolate chips to the chocolate cake mix or swirling rasberry jam into the white when you put it in the pan. Why don't beer kits have something similar, eg. replace yeast with type X, or soak some oak chips in bourbon and add to the secondary?

So, here's a challenge for the experienced brewers on the list: what are some well-defined modifications that can be made to a specific kit to change the outcome of the brew? And please note, when I say "well-defined" I mean, "replace the 60 minute hop addition with 1.5 oz Hallertau pellets" and not "throw some different hops in".

I'm hoping that these mods will give a safe experimentation plain for newer brewers to play on and maybe more experienced brewers can breathe new life into the kits.

Well, it sounds like an interesting topic, but can potentially open up a new can of worms. I mean there are so many things that can be changed/added/subtracted to make a recipe your own. And you really won't know if you'll like the changes until you do it. You could make wonderful stuff, or drek. But in either case it'll be beer, and that can't be bad!
Things easily changed would include substituting grain for some of the ME for a partial mash, changing up the yeast strain, changing the hops and/or hop schedule. Check recipes online to see what others have done, and adjust, if you're brave enough!:rockin:
 
You can but keep in mind that recipes are all about balance of hops and malts. If you play with one you need to adjust the other to maintain that balance.

IMHO you brew the kit as is. If you are looking for a different type of beer then find a kit the fits what you are looking for. Example, if you want an 8% beer don't mess with a 5% and try and make it 8, just find one that already is designed to be 8%

^^^^^This.

Do you want a good beer, or do you wish to fly blind?

Rick
 
darragh said:
the problem i have is the extra ingredients are almost always the same brands the kits eg youngs or coopers .the yeast packets just read youngs or youngs cider etc i cant find any named strains like i see posted on here at my local lbh are the branded ones the same you get in the kit ? if so i assume they wont be up to scratch for adding improvements.ordering online is an option but post and packaging can be expensive to ireland

Dry yeast should be cheap to ship, it fits easily in a letter envelope. At least in my limited experience, results were much better once I stopped using kit yeast and paid attention to how much I pitch and fermentation temperatures. In fact, I decided to stay with extract kits for now and only make the step to all grain once I feel I have yeast and fermentation under control.
 
the problem i have is the extra ingredients are almost always the same brands the kits eg youngs or coopers .the yeast packets just read youngs or youngs cider etc i cant find any named strains like i see posted on here at my local lbh are the branded ones the same you get in the kit ? if so i assume they wont be up to scratch for adding improvements.ordering online is an option but post and packaging can be expensive to ireland

Have you spoken to the owner at your local shop about possibly creating a recipe instead of using a kit. Do they sell ingredients separately? If so you can visit the recipe wiki and look around for something you like and then purchase the ingredients locally to brew, just a thought.....
 
Well, it sounds like an interesting topic, but can potentially open up a new can of worms. I mean there are so many things that can be changed/added/subtracted to make a recipe your own. And you really won't know if you'll like the changes until you do it. You could make wonderful stuff, or drek. But in either case it'll be beer, and that can't be bad!
Things easily changed would include substituting grain for some of the ME for a partial mash, changing up the yeast strain, changing the hops and/or hop schedule. Check recipes online to see what others have done, and adjust, if you're brave enough!:rockin:

The can of worms only opens up with a new brewer that has absolutely no idea what a "good idea" is (eg. the infamous 'bratwurst beer' from that one commercial). Some of the instructions that have been tossed around on boards I've seen are like telling a newbie, "Here's some copper, zinc, gunpowder and paper; go make yourself some fireworks!" Yes, you might get something beautiful, but you might also blow your fingers off. Lets face it, there are an astronomical number of things that you can do to beer to customize it but for the first timer it is daunting and a gentle, well-defined nudge can really get the new brewer excited about the craft.

Going back to my original argument, my suggestion is not that new; I have a shelf full of cookbooks with recipes that give variations. The cake mix shelf at the store is full of boxes that give optional ingredients to be added the cake to spice it up. Heck, even the bag of chocolate chips in my freezer tells you to add 3/4 cup of walnuts if you're so inclined. You can do a lot of non-standard things with a box of yellow cake mix but at least the box lists 2 or 3. Is it so hard for kit makers -- or even fanciers of the kits -- to add well-defined variations to their recipes?

I'm not asking the experienced brewers to "do my work for me" as another comment in this thread has intimated. I've got 7 non-kit batches under my belt (literally and figuratively) and only one was strictly a recipe by someone other than me. I have no problems experimenting, but someone less crazy and more intimidated by cooking could be turned off by having to sift through some of the witch's brew comments that have appeared on forums.

I apologize if I sound like I'm ranting, Jim, but I got frustrated by your and anothers comment that dismissed my suggestion for helping the rank newbie. I was there just a year ago and I found it more than a little annoying that no well-defined (yes, I keep using that phrase) step existed other than "post your idea, we'll tell you if you're off your rocker" type comments from people.
 
I apologize if I sound like I'm ranting, Jim, but I got frustrated by your and anothers comment that dismissed my suggestion for helping the rank newbie. I was there just a year ago and I found it more than a little annoying that no well-defined (yes, I keep using that phrase) step existed other than "post your idea, we'll tell you if you're off your rocker" type comments from people.

I'm sorry if you feel frustrated or like we are dismissing your question, but IMO what you are asking is not reasonable. You want a list of specific recommendations like "replace the 60 minute hop addition with 1.5 oz Hallertau pellets" and not "throw some different hops in". Without knowing the rest of a recipe, how can we make such a specific recommendation?

Your cookbook analogy is for SPECIFIC RECIPES, right? With a given recipe they put possible variations, they don't just make a list of variations that can apply to any recipe in the book. Do you want us to list every type of kit/recipe possible and all the variations you could do to it??

I'm really not trying to be an a**, there are plenty of folks on here that will give suggestions about recipes but you need to give us a little direction.
:mug:
 
bergy said:
The can of worms only opens up with a new brewer that has absolutely no idea what a "good idea" is (eg. the infamous 'bratwurst beer' from that one commercial). Some of the instructions that have been tossed around on boards I've seen are like telling a newbie, "Here's some copper, zinc, gunpowder and paper; go make yourself some fireworks!" Yes, you might get something beautiful, but you might also blow your fingers off. Lets face it, there are an astronomical number of things that you can do to beer to customize it but for the first timer it is daunting and a gentle, well-defined nudge can really get the new brewer excited about the craft.

Going back to my original argument, my suggestion is not that new; I have a shelf full of cookbooks with recipes that give variations. The cake mix shelf at the store is full of boxes that give optional ingredients to be added the cake to spice it up. Heck, even the bag of chocolate chips in my freezer tells you to add 3/4 cup of walnuts if you're so inclined. You can do a lot of non-standard things with a box of yellow cake mix but at least the box lists 2 or 3. Is it so hard for kit makers -- or even fanciers of the kits -- to add well-defined variations to their recipes?

I'm not asking the experienced brewers to "do my work for me" as another comment in this thread has intimated. I've got 7 non-kit batches under my belt (literally and figuratively) and only one was strictly a recipe by someone other than me. I have no problems experimenting, but someone less crazy and more intimidated by cooking could be turned off by having to sift through some of the witch's brew comments that have appeared on forums.

I apologize if I sound like I'm ranting, Jim, but I got frustrated by your and anothers comment that dismissed my suggestion for helping the rank newbie. I was there just a year ago and I found it more than a little annoying that no well-defined (yes, I keep using that phrase) step existed other than "post your idea, we'll tell you if you're off your rocker" type comments from people.


It is very hard to help someone add to a kit when we don't even know what it is, if its a canned prehopped kit using dried malt extract instead of sugar and using fresh yeast (dried or liquid appropriate to style) will help. Maybe adding some fresh hops to the DME maybe 1oz for aroma (again a hop to style) or make the kit as per instructions and dry hop 1oz to style, again for aroma.

Personally I would make the kit as is and see how I like it and if its close to what I was looking for then I'd look at the recipe wiki and pull some hop ideas to add and yeast strains to try.

I made some Coopers kits and I used DME instead of sugar and kept tasting notes so I knew what I wanted to change the next time I made it.

I hope this helps.
 
basically what i can get my hands on locally is coopers,youngs and geordie beer kits. all equipment is youngs they stock some brew enhancers and some yeast nutrients etc for wines . theres a health shop thats also stock a really limited supply of the same youngs\coopers products neither stock grains,hops,dme etc there is an online store but they stock the same with a slightly bigger selection of kits as well as some prohibition spirit kits and alcoshot kits. im sure there possible to get i live in a smallish town so maybe bigger towns and cities would have more dedicated lbh .there is a certain amount of traditional recipes for homemade things passed down but these are probably unreliable or dangerous lol but maybe people that know them could tell me where to source raw ingredients that i could use if i found out howit would be alot of extra effort involved but maybe its possible. ordering to ireland gets complicated because we have no postal or zip codes some websites will accept fake ones others wont and post in packaging costs force you to buy in bulk iv often tried to buy something for as little as 2 euro only for post and packaging taxes etc knock the price up to 12. thanks again for the support without this forum i could honestly say id be lost
 
darragh, have you looked into whether there is a homebrew club in your area? I guess if you're really far from any towns or cities of size then there might not be. I was just thinking if you could find one they might do things like group buys to save on ingredients, and probably know other local sources in your area.

I'm realizing how lucky I am to have a LHBS 20 min away that can pretty much order anything I want with free in store pick up.

Good luck!
:mug:
 
darragh, have you looked into whether there is a homebrew club in your area? I guess if you're really far from any towns or cities of size then there might not be. I was just thinking if you could find one they might do things like group buys to save on ingredients, and probably know other local sources in your area.

I'm realizing how lucky I am to have a LHBS 20 min away that can pretty much order anything I want with free in store pick up.

Good luck!
:mug:

no there doesnt appear to be anything as of yet but home brewing seems to be a new thing here it just popped up before xmas .i hadnt even heard of it untill i seen a starter kit in a shop window but it seems that the products are selling well especially before xmas presents i assume. so its probably early days if it keeps selling its possible the stores will start stocking more products and a club may even spring up
 
The can of worms only opens up with a new brewer that has absolutely no idea what a "good idea" is (eg. the infamous 'bratwurst beer' from that one commercial). Some of the instructions that have been tossed around on boards I've seen are like telling a newbie, "Here's some copper, zinc, gunpowder and paper; go make yourself some fireworks!" Yes, you might get something beautiful, but you might also blow your fingers off. Lets face it, there are an astronomical number of things that you can do to beer to customize it but for the first timer it is daunting and a gentle, well-defined nudge can really get the new brewer excited about the craft.

Going back to my original argument, my suggestion is not that new; I have a shelf full of cookbooks with recipes that give variations. The cake mix shelf at the store is full of boxes that give optional ingredients to be added the cake to spice it up. Heck, even the bag of chocolate chips in my freezer tells you to add 3/4 cup of walnuts if you're so inclined. You can do a lot of non-standard things with a box of yellow cake mix but at least the box lists 2 or 3. Is it so hard for kit makers -- or even fanciers of the kits -- to add well-defined variations to their recipes?

I'm not asking the experienced brewers to "do my work for me" as another comment in this thread has intimated. I've got 7 non-kit batches under my belt (literally and figuratively) and only one was strictly a recipe by someone other than me. I have no problems experimenting, but someone less crazy and more intimidated by cooking could be turned off by having to sift through some of the witch's brew comments that have appeared on forums.

I apologize if I sound like I'm ranting, Jim, but I got frustrated by your and anothers comment that dismissed my suggestion for helping the rank newbie. I was there just a year ago and I found it more than a little annoying that no well-defined (yes, I keep using that phrase) step existed other than "post your idea, we'll tell you if you're off your rocker" type comments from people.

Well reasoned Bergy.
I'm also coming from your spot- I too started a year ago. I apologize if what I posted came off like I was preaching. I maybe misstated my original premise. I'm actually with you, and like to experiment with my recipes. I only started posting regularly this month, but am more than willing to share in anything that I've learned. Good Brewing!
 
no there doesnt appear to be anything as of yet but home brewing seems to be a new thing here it just popped up before xmas .i hadnt even heard of it untill i seen a starter kit in a shop window but it seems that the products are selling well especially before xmas presents i assume. so its probably early days if it keeps selling its possible the stores will start stocking more products and a club may even spring up

Had an idea yesterday after I had gone home. Again, forgive my ignorance of Ireland, but are there any brewpubs locally that you are friendly with? Maybe they would be willing to help out with yeast strains, ingredients, etc.
 
It is very hard to help someone add to a kit when we don't even know what it is, if its a canned prehopped kit using dried malt extract instead of sugar and using fresh yeast (dried or liquid appropriate to style) will help. Maybe adding some fresh hops to the DME maybe 1oz for aroma (again a hop to style) or make the kit as per instructions and dry hop 1oz to style, again for aroma.

Personally I would make the kit as is and see how I like it and if its close to what I was looking for then I'd look at the recipe wiki and pull some hop ideas to add and yeast strains to try.

I made some Coopers kits and I used DME instead of sugar and kept tasting notes so I knew what I wanted to change the next time I made it.

I hope this helps.

There is the assumption that the kit in question is some well-known kit. Your suggestion, while helpful, is like providing someone with a contour map -- if you know how to read one, great! Otherwise you're still confused. I suggest providing the map but marking the hiking trails on it. For example, the following is what I am suggesting (I have not tried this, I don't plan to try this, it is just provided for illustration):

Brewer's Best Baltic Porter - Use the two-stage fermenting instructions. The night before secondary, soak 6 ounces of oak chips in 2 cups of your favorite brandy. Add just the chips (not the liquid) to the secondary. Continue to ferment and bottle/keg as directed. This will add a smokey/oakey flavor to the resulting product.
 

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