Kegerator in basement-taps in kitchen

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SAS98M

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So the other day I ran an idea past SWMBO and got the ok(pending final approval of blueprinted idea-by SWMBO) of having my taps in the kitchen-she went for it....I was gonna start with the kegerator under the new counter section-then thought of additional noise,heat and dust in and under the counter-not good after installed...
I then came up with the idea of keeping the keger.in the basement and running pvc pipe off the top of the tower directly up thru the new counter and installing the taps in the pvc-good idea but then large hole in counter if taps removed-not good either...
On to the next idea-Taps through the wall with a fancy copper backsplash and drip tray--on to blueprinting and assembly, place the keger. close enough(under a given 16inch wide wall section,below where the taps would be located,use some sort of flexible conduit to run the beer lines though-up into the wall and to the taps-this would be a 8-9 foot run of beer line-the backside of the wall in question is the stairway down into the basement so a removable back panel for tap access is in order...

Any ideas on my line length,what would the best(cheapest way) to cool this-I've thought of the p.c. fan and box deal-would it force enough air up the tube ?,any thoughts on insulation of the flex tube and wall areas ? I thought spray foam type insulation-PRO:no sweating,CON-permanent and non servicable-good if glycol cooling(out of the question)bad if air cooling-lack of air flow.... See what I mean.....EEEAAHH I've got so many ideas running amuck in the ol' cranium that I can't think anymore.....
Lets hear any critiques,ideas or thoughts that you have-many obtained here prior are used on every brew day....... I'm looking forward to see what you guys/gals come up with. Thanks in advance. Shane
 
Someone on here ran their beer lines through a larger pipe, pvc maybe, along with lines that were attached to a pump that ran continuously, pumping from, and back to, a container of water or water/antifreeze in the beer fridge. Sort of a poor man's glycol system. I think the liquid may have been RV antifreeze, but not too sure about that.
 
Hmm, if you have the PVC pipe running inside the wall, what about if you insulated the wall. They make insulation that you blow into a small hole in the wall and will fill the entire gap between the studs. You are already cutting a hole in the wall, so there you go. Here's an example:
Home Tips : How to Blow Insulation Into a Wall

As far as cooling, since heat rises, I would use an air blower and small hose to force air up to the end of the lines where the taps are and create a small box near the taps for the cold air to collect around the shanks. This should make the coldest air at the top and the air will be constantly flowing back into the refrigerator.
 
Getting the pressure right may be hard. it is only 1 floor but you may have to up the dispense pressure and play with the size and length of the hoses.
 
When working in bars, the best beers were always on the shortest lines, and you also had the added advantage of not having to run off much beer on the first pull.

Not so sure about kegerators, but I can't imagine the principal is any different.
 
There's a lot of potential problems with a long line setup. Do you know the approx length of the beerline? If it's to long, air cooling isn't a viable option.
 
My line is only 4 ft, and is air cooled. I used flexible 2" tubing and encased it with 2" of foam board on all sides. Insulating could be a bit tricky if limited to a 2X4 stud wall. If you upped the size of the fan, you might be able to decrease the size of the duct and allow for more insulation.

On my set up, I rigged my fan to blow into the fridge and therefore suck the coldest air over the beer lines. It is trickier to rig a fan to blow directly over the beer lines and not have air leak
 
The best I can think of would to be to run two 3" PVC pipes vertically up through the wall. The line run through one and the other is empty. Install two muffin fans one blowing cold air up the pipe with the lines, the other returning warm air from the coffin box to the fridge. Locate the cold air fan at the bottom of the tube and the hot air fan at the top of the return tube.

Balancing your lines will be the toughest thing IMHO. There is a calculator on here somewhere for how to do it.
 
Check out this guy's DIY glycol setup... he does a 75 foot run from his garage to the kitchen... at least you could keep the noisy bits in the basement :)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhRCqsepMc]YouTube - Home made glycol beer cooling ( cooler ) system[/ame]
 
Cool video, but how practical is it?? Electricity around here is going through the roof. I can't imagine what it costs to run that thing 24/7.
 
I'd go for the glycol chilled setup over the air version (i've done both)

Glycol is easier to run through walls. It's also pretty straightforward to setup if you have a freezer/fridge combo. put the glycol resivoir in the freezer part with a small pond pump, and you've got chilled lines.

whatever you do, make sure to insulate and use vapor barriors...condensation in walls is not a good thing.

you'll have to be a bit more careful when it comes to balancing the lines. You'll need to go larger than normal because the height difference will supply the pressure drop that you'd normally use the smaller diameter lines for.
 
Take a look at this post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/ru...basement-kitchen-main-floor-51520/#post517370

Has links to insulated trunk line for $9/ft and inexpensive pond pumps that should work just great... it actually has me thinking about doing a similar setup :). My keezer is in the utility room directly below kitchen... hmm... IIRC, the pressure drop/raise with water is 44psi for 100ft... so if you're running beer 10 feet up, you're probably looking at a pressure drop of 4psi before you factor in flow restriction from the lines.
 
I'd go with the lines in a liquid filled sleeve with a reservoir in the freezer. Kind of a liquid cooled computer on steroids.
 
I'd research the long draw options available to bars and restaurants and go from there. MicroMatic has some good info on long draw systems, as they sell some of the best.
 
Just leave extra room for expansion. This hobby as a knack for taking up more and more time/money/room/life force
 
I'm the line cleaner/draft tech for our distributor. The glycol in the freezer w/pond pump sounds like it would be a good small version of a glycol chiller and would probably work the best. Nearly all the long draw systems do this.

However, I can think of one bar specifically that has their cooler in the basement directly below their taps, and they use air to cool it. Unless you have particularly high basement ceilings, I'm sure they are pushing the beer up further than you.

They have a good-sized fan pushing the cold air up, it is a squirrel cage type fan that reminds me of the blower my parents had for the fireplace. It is mounted on the wall, with a hose running from the fan's intake to the outlet of the chiller's fan. The discharge hose runs straight up to the taps' box in the same tube that the beer lines go through. (They are in a box, about 8 inches deep or so.)

If you wanted to use air, I would consider putting the large fan in the freezer into an insulated hose, with the beer lines running through the air hose.

Instead of having the taps mounted directly to the kitchen wall, maybe you could have a small box built for them that matches the cabinets.

In summary, here is what I'd do:
Kegerator sitting below kitchen.
Beer lines exit side of refrigerator portion.
Air tube exits side freezer portion.
Beer lines enter air tube right there (and are insulated for the short distance from the side of the fridge to the air tube).
Air tube/beer lines run up the wall between the studs. The space between the air tube and studs is insulated. (I'd use expanding foam to eliminate condensation.)
Up top, the air hose/beer lines elbow to exit through a hole in the wall between counter/cabinets.
Basically sitting on the counter is the faucet box that has been built to complement the cabinets/counter. The faucet box is cooled by air from the fan.

That way, if you ever chose to remove the system, all you would have to do would be to remove the faucet box and patch the hole in the wall.

I too would recommend allowing for expansion. I'd at least run a couple extra lines up from below that could be hooked up at a later time.

To save a bit of electricity, I don't think it would really hurt anything to maybe put that fan on a timer so it isn't running at night/while you're at work. If you were really concerned about the beer getting too warm during that time, maybe you could set up a programmable thermostat?

What a great project! I wish I had a basement, but maybe I'll just run beer lines from somewhere in my garage into the kitchen just for the fun of it.

Actually, this reminds me of my cousin whose story of them changing the kitchen sink sprayer into a beer faucet entranced me when I was young. In fact, that may be an option as well.

Install the beer faucets on the back edge of the sink, like you were originally thinking. Then if you wanted to remove the system, it would only require changing the sink out which is fairly simple. Plus you wouldn't need a drip tray!

Def. post pics when this is done!
 
I'm looking in to doing this as well. I'll be going up through a cabinet and then into an oak box that will have my taps mounted on to it(will sit against the wall underneath the upper cabinets). I don't know how/if I'm going to chill the lines.

I'm looking into getting Bev-seal 1/4" lines so that beer sitting in the lines won't pick up any flavor.
 
Thanks to all who've replied..... all info taken in/processed etc... I think I'm gonna try the flexible tube route-at least between the pvc up-tube and kegerator insulated into the wall.I'm thinkin' 8 feet of beer line at best-pressures should be ok. as to cooling-I'm using a factory kegerator not a fridge(no freezer) so a glycol cooler is out,if needed I think the pc.fan rig would be best-we'll just have to wait and see. Lots of food for thought..........Thanks again. Shane

p.s. I was just given a water carbonator pump assy.(one that'll put fizz in tap water by infusing it w/ co2)that worked when removed form service,my pop gave me two seltzer fountains a while back-ones all silver with the marble knob,the other one is stainless--might just have to install that system at the same time--hum
 
I want my taps upstairs in the kitchen for convenience (I don't need to run downstairs to the beer room for a pint or for some soda) and because when I have parties it will be much easier for people to serve themselves if it is up in the kitchen.
 
what is behind the wall you want to mount the taps on? It might be easier to build a fancy looking keezer in a bedroom or make room in the garage.
 
I would use 1/4" stainless tubing for the runs, bundled together and run up through 2" PVC. Then run a 1" thinwall hose up to the taps and use a squirrel cage blower sitting in the kegger. The air needs to blow up into the faucet box and have a path back down into the kegger for a loop. The stainless tubing is less likely to taint the beer than PVC tubing.
 
The stainless is unnecessary. Many, many restaurants have draft beer runs of even a hundred feet or more with zero problems using food-grade pvc. I can only imagine that would be much cheaper than stainless.
 
WOW... I can't believe guys are talkin about glycol cooled lines for this.

I was posting on a thread exactly like this a few weeks ago.

I run 6 35 foot long lines from a walk-in cooler in a storage area to a coffin box and six taps on top of my bar in another room. A 3 inch PVC pipe carries the lines and a 2 inch PVC pipe is a return back to the cooler. The coffin box and pipes are airtight to the cooler and at first I ran a tiny squirrel cage fan circulating cold air ina loop from the cooler and after a week I bagged it because even that wasn't needed.

The PVC pipes sit about a foot off the floor between an interior wall that I built and the concrete wall of my basement. All of the PVC pipes and the coffin box itself are insulated with regular pipe insulation (pre-shaped to the pipes)

I keep my cooler at about 42 degrees. I host half of my brew clubs meetings at my house where we get a turn-out of about 25 people per meeting, I had our holiday party at my place this year and we are always having parties... I've never had anyone pick up an off-taste from the lines being warm or say they got a warm beer and I've had my set-up like this for well over a year.

Going glycol for the short distance you're talking about (IMO) is nuts. Run a closed loop with PVC and toss a tiny computer fan from Radio Shack on one end and you'll never have a problem. Just make sure you insulate whatever you're using to carry the lines. If this is going to get buried in a wall the last thing you want is ANY condensation at all on those pipes that could end up molding on you.
 
Not sure if you've thought about this, but you may want to think about migrating to beergas or nitrogen for pushing your beer, if you haven't already. The pressure you'll need in the kegs to push beer up a floor may end up overcarbonating your beer.

I have a similar housing situation - beer in utility room, directly below kitchen. I thought about going your route briefly, but decided that I really don't mind having my beer in the basement. It can actually be a good thing to have to do a little work to go pour a beer. Plus, unlike yours, my SWMBO did NOT approve. Instead, she let me finish the basement and route my beer from the utility room, through the wall, into my wetbar area. :D

FYI, using 3/16" beer line, you are talking about 0.18 oz. of beer per foot of line.
 
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