Ketchup Beer

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Zebulon

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If a fella was going to make a ketchup beer, what percentage of the sugar do you think should come from the malt vs the ketchup?

Also, what hop would you pair with ketchup?
 
First you head on down to the cafeteria of the mental institution. You know, like 50 feet down the hall and ask for 50 packs.

Hehehe

Ketchup is an american icon. In fact it is the benchmark standard that americans use to calibrate their palettes. And those who love it, drown their food in it. From the breakfast eggs to the steak and potato dinner, they hose it down with the almighty catsup.

Tomatoes have a rich history in american beer. There's the time honored tradition of tomato beer made in the pitcher like a hick's radler. All the way to the modern day tall can of bud-clamato.

I am not a ketchupaholic, but it seemed to me that this idea warranted further exploration. Has there been a serious attempt to combine these flavors artfully?
 
I admit, I find this just as intriguing as the spaghetti beer from a while back. In order to avoid the preservative issue, you could consider making your own. That way you also know exactly how much sugar is in it (and therefore you get at least an idea of its fermentability).
 
I would use tomatoes instead of ketchup, which is mostly sugar and will ferment out (assuming no preservatives), probably in unpleasant ways.
 
I'll agree with usfmikeb on this one... you'd prolly want to substitute tomato paste and honey and prolly some milk sugar - Ketchup has more sugar by weight than ice cream does and sweetness is one of the overriding characteristics.
 
The reason I say Ketchup Beer is because the flavor of ketchup is not the same as just tomato. The vinegar is actually a major component of the flavor, but I posit that a ketchup beer could possibly be good.

I like the idea of making the ketchup from scratch, Smagee. Having it at the ideal sugar content and taste before brewing it with the wort. Mixing in tomato and other ingredients in the beer seem like a way to make "tomato soup beer".

And just to reiterate, I actually don't eat much ketchup, am not an avid fan or anything.

So, maybe I'm thinking, in order to keep the keptchupy taste it would be better to add the ketchup as a late boil addition. But I'm wondering about the % of ketchup needed to make the flavor balanced. Any ballpark guesses?
 
The vinegar is actually a major component of the flavor, but I posit that a ketchup beer could possibly be good.

No offense, but a beer with vinegar in it will never taste good, as the vinegar interferes with the chemical processes of fermentation.
 
No offense, but a beer with vinegar in it will never taste good, as the vinegar interferes with the chemical processes of fermentation.

Well, technically that's not true. Acetic acid is an important flavor contributor to some Flanders ales. That doesn't mean, of course, that dumping a vinegar-processed sugar solution into a beer is a good idea.

OP: If you are insisting on adding vinegar to your beer, be sure it's a high quality type that you know does not have any live bacteria in it - such as distilled.
 
I didn't know vinegar was harmful to yeast, i thought vinegar was made via fermentation of some sort i guess. I claim no knowledge of the process.

Any ideas about making a beer tangy/zesty without any vinegar? That could be a deal breaker for the particular flavor, maybe?
 
I believe that the amount of acetic acid that is a byproduct of the yeast blends typically used for sour beers (such as Roeselare) isn't anywhere near the amount you'd find in a bottle of ketchup. Check the ingredients, there's more vinegar than sugar, and that junk is full of sugar.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that the bugs producing acids in sour ales typically do so during the aging process, not during primary fermentation.
 
I'd second the sour mash idea as far as reproducing the "tang" without the vinegar. However, it could result in a dry beer due to the wild bugs present. Not sure how to balance those two... could take a bit of research.
 
Add some ketchup to a glass of beer and see if you like the taste. Ok, if you do, that's probably the best it's ever going to taste.

When the sugar ferments out of the ketchup you're going to be left with a small amount of tomato flavor and a lot of vinegar. It's not going to taste like ketchup anymore. If you add enough ketchup, the vinegar may lower the ph of the wort enough that it starts to stress the yeast and cause off flavors. So in short, you're not going to get anything close to what you want by adding ketchup. If you really like the flavor of ketchup in your beer, feel free to add it in the glass.
 
Hmm. If I was trying to create the ketchup flavor within the beer I could use unfermentable sugars to keep the sweetness, right? Souring could theoretically be used to make it tangy, then. This seems plausible but not very practical. If it won't work to brew with it's not as interesting to me, heh.

The thing that might save this is the cooking of the ketchup. I wonder if things happen in the open pot on the burner for 60+ minutes that might change the vinegar content significantly?
 
I don't buy this anymore. It's a joke / troll.

I got into this line of thinking because I realized how much sugar is in ketchup, that you could theoretically make hooch out of it.

It is as serious as you want to take it.
 
Hmm. If I was trying to create the ketchup flavor within the beer I could use unfermentable sugars to keep the sweetness, right? Souring could theoretically be used to make it tangy, then. This seems plausible but not very practical. If it won't work to brew with it's not as interesting to me, heh.

The problem with using the souring process is that it'll likely chew up most of those unfermentables that you're adding to keep it sweetened. Although I guess there are still unfermentable sweeteners out there that sour yeasts *won't* eat (e.g., Splenda). But that's yet another weird thing to add to an already weird idea :).

The thing that might save this is the cooking of the ketchup. I wonder if things happen in the open pot on the burner for 60+ minutes that might change the vinegar content significantly?

If you've ever boiled vinegar before, you'll be familiar with the unpleasant smell that comes out of it. I have no idea how much you can expect to boil off during the 60 minute process, but it might mellow it out slightly. It might be worth testing with ~1gallon of water and a few squirts of ketchup, just for the hell of it. Maybe add some DME and junk hops just to see where the flavor ends up at the end.
 
If I find someone who is nutty about the stuff, and actually try any combos, expect a belated update to this thread at some point. Seems my next option is to start experimenting, but I don't feel interested enough to use any precious fermentation/aging space at such a high risk.

Food for thought. Thanks all. More on this later, maybe.
 
maybe just throw some V8 juice into a growler with some US-05 and an airlock?

I recall Bobby_M (I think) posting the cover of an old winemaking book that had a bottle of V8 on the cover....
 
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