Bock and Doppelbock

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SpanishCastleAle

SpanishCastleAle

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I want to brew a Bock and a Doppelbock for winter. What gives them their dark color? Just dark Crystal? Caramunich maybe? I don't want to add inappropriate grains just for their color. Any proven AG recipes appreciated...there's not much in the recipe database here for that.

Tentatively I'm thinking German Pilsner malt, German Munich malt, and 120L Crystal...possibly some Caramunich. I want the color to be light enough to show the clarity but still well within style (say SRM ~17-ish?).
 
JZ uses something called Muessdorffer Rost malt in his bock, but not his doppelbock. That's just pils, munich and caramunich 60L. I've never seen the Muessdorffer for sale anywhere, though...it's 200L, so maybe some pale chocolate would work?

When I made a munich dunkel (which ended up more like a bock), I used Munich as the base, and added a little carafa III spezial (dehusked). That worked out quite well.
 
I just did a dopple with the following:
60% Munich
35% Pilsner
4% Crystal 60L
1% Chocolate

Nice reddish-brown and almost too dark to see through. I would back off on the 120L crystal.
 
I haven't brewed any Bocks, but have just done a bunch of research on them. Munich and Vienna are the popular choices for flavor and some color, but it really depends on which style of bock you're going for. Check out the BJCP page on Bocks, and check out the official web site for some of your favorites, they might give a bunch of information on ingrediants. I do believe caramel malts are used for less than 5% of the grist, and usually not as high as 120L. But that's just research, not actual work, so take it fwiw.
 
I use a little chocolate malt in mine. If you've tasted Celebrator, you know there's got to be a bit of roasted malts in there (but not especially bitter ones), so Evan's suggestion of Pale Chocolate malt would be great. 1-2% would be acceptable, I think.
 
Thanks. Here's the BJCP info for Traditional Bock:
Aroma: Strong malt aroma, often with moderate amounts of rich melanoidins and/or toasty overtones. Virtually no hop aroma. Some alcohol may be noticeable. Clean. No diacetyl. Low to no fruity esters.

Appearance: Light copper to brown color, often with attractive garnet highlights. Lagering should provide good clarity despite the dark color. Large, creamy, persistent, off-white head.

Flavor: Complex maltiness is dominated by the rich flavors of Munich and Vienna malts, which contribute melanoidins and toasty flavors. Some caramel notes may be present from decoction mashing and a long boil. Hop bitterness is generally only high enough to support the malt flavors, allowing a bit of sweetness to linger into the finish. Well-attenuated, not cloying. Clean, with no esters or diacetyl. No hop flavor. No roasted or burnt character.
Click to expand...
That last part is what has me wondering about Chocolate malt.

I intend to do a decoction. Seems most styles I brew use decoctions...and Pils malt...which make for long brew days (not that that is such a bad thing).

cactusgarret that is very similar to what I was intending. I'm ordering the grains for this and several other brews soon...looks like lots of Pils and Munich malts.
 

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