DMS issue in berliner weisse... boil before bottling?

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bovineblitz

bovineblitz

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Think that would fix it? My berliner has a not so good funk in the background that I'm attributing to DMS (though it does kind of remind me of some flavors I've gotten from attempts to harvest saison yeasts, it reminds me a little bit more of vegetables). It's been in a carboy for 2 months, I'd wait a couple more months until the sourness is where I want it, then I'd siphon it off into a kettle and boil for 60min, then replace the water that is lost.

I'm sure some alcohol would boil off but it's such a low percentage to begin with I don't care much.

Salvageable?

Even if it's not, I'll probably try it.
 
*ALL* of the alcohol will boil off.

Alcohol boils at a lower temp than water. As you heat it up, it will sort of stall at 165 or something like that until all the alcohol is gone, and then it will continue heating to a boil.

You'll have non-alcoholic beer when you are done.
 
Was this a no-boil berliner? I don't know what malts you used, but it might just be there from not getting boiled off if you used pilsner or something.
 
What bugs do you have working on it? If it's just Lacto, try adding some Brett bruxellensis.
 
It was a no-boil with pils and wheat. I did a small decoction to raise the temp. I just heated up to 160 then cooled, I thought that DMS couldn't form that way. The sourness is slowly coming along but I'm not sure it'll be drinkable if I don't do something.

The only bug working in there is Lacto... I pitched lacto 2 days before the yeast. How would Brett save the day?

I don't really mind if my berliner winds up being non-alcoholic as I'm not drinking it for the alcohol anyways... though if I can save it without boiling that'd be awesome.

The brett suggestion has me curious.
 
bovineblitz said:
It was a no-boil with pils and wheat. I did a small decoction to raise the temp. I just heated up to 160 then cooled, I thought that DMS couldn't form that way. The sourness is slowly coming along but I'm not sure it'll be drinkable if I don't do something.
Click to expand...

I guess maybe, but it would be by some method I'm not aware of (and I won't claim to be an expert by any means).

My understanding is that the boil is what's really needed to drive off the DMS. I think just heating to 160 would actually further thermal decomposition of SMM into DMS, since it's heat driven and occurs below boiling point (I think around 140-150F but I'm not sure).

That's just my guess, though. I won't pretend to be a chemist :mug:
 
I would suspect that you have some microbe in there that is producing the DMS, rather than DMS from the grain. I’ve done three no-boil Berliners and haven’t had any DMS issues (won medals with the beers etc…). I bring my beers to just below a boil before chilling to make sure whatever microbes are on the grain are killed.

Brett is something I always add, so that is certainly worth a shot. Pitching the Lacto first is risky, a low pH can really stress the primary yeast and cause them to produce weird off flavors . Time may be the answer as well, there are some weird flavors in your sours sometimes.

Good luck
 
Oldsock said:
I would suspect that you have some microbe in there that is producing the DMS, rather than DMS from the grain. I’ve done three no-boil Berliners and haven’t had any DMS issues (won medals with the beers etc…). I bring my beers to just below a boil before chilling to make sure whatever microbes are on the grain are killed.

Brett is something I always add, so that is certainly worth a shot. Pitching the Lacto first is risky, a low pH can really stress the primary yeast and cause them to produce weird off flavors . Time may be the answer as well, there are some weird flavors in your sours sometimes.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I just picked up a fresh bottle of orval, I'll pitch the dregs soon on your advice. The beer is still on lees right now, I should probably secondary before pitching the orval, right?
 
bovineblitz said:
I just picked up a fresh bottle of orval, I'll pitch the dregs soon on your advice. The beer is still on lees right now, I should probably secondary before pitching the orval, right?
Click to expand...

Might it be autolysis? Two months in primary is a long time for a non-Brett beer.

I tend to rack my Berliners after primary fermentation dies down, Lambics are the only style I leave in primary.
 
Oldsock said:
Might it be autolysis? Two months in primary is a long time for a non-Brett beer.

I tend to rack my Berliners after primary fermentation dies down, Lambics are the only style I leave in primary.
Click to expand...

Unless lacto can contribute to autolysis, I highly highly doubt that's my issue. I've left beers on the yeast for longer than this batch and haven't had any issues at all.

I figure when I add the brett i should rack since brett feasts on old yeast and the lees provides it with WAY too much yeast... I'm fairly inexperienced with sours though... am I correct with this line of thought?
 
bovineblitz said:
Unless lacto can contribute to autolysis, I highly highly doubt that's my issue. I've left beers on the yeast for longer than this batch and haven't had any issues at all.

I figure when I add the brett i should rack since brett feasts on old yeast and the lees provides it with WAY too much yeast... I'm fairly inexperienced with sours though... am I correct with this line of thought?
Click to expand...

Lactic acid could certainly stress the yeast and cause autolysis issues earlier than in a clean beer. Having such a mild flavored beer could also let those off-flavors shine through more than a beer with more malt/hop character.

Leaving a beer with Brett on the yeast cake will lead to a more rustic/funky character that I like in my Lambics, but not in most other sours.
 
Alright so the plan is rack to a new carboy and add the Orval dregs. It'll likely be a while until I have any other info of note, but I'll post it here once I learn anything.

Thx for your thoughts, Oldsock :)
 

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