Anyone have a REAL lion's stout clone?

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Well I decided to do a preliminary tasting today. And it's starting to carb, but not much yet, and it is pretty green. But it's got a nice flavor. I don't know if it's going to end up being close to a lion's clone, BUT it's a nice stout.

I'll need to let in carb and condition before doing a side by side. And I think I might want to to decrease the lactose. But I like it. Hopefully in a week it will be carbed enough to serve a few on x-mas.
 
So?

Just finished the last of the Sierra Nevada Stout clone from Clone Brews. It turned out great and now I am thinking of trying a Tropical Stout. How did your recipe turn out?

Thanks for the thread.
 
I guess I should update this. If you don't prime like I did with the mollases I think this is a pretty good start. I won't say it's dead on (it would take a few more tweaky batches to get it there.) But it is close, it's a tasty stout without a lot of the roastiness of a typical FE stout, just like Lion's.

Priming it with the mollases worked perfectly. I got the right level of carbonation, BUT I'm not a huge fan of the in your face date sweetness from the mollases. It's good but the unfermentables in the mollases make it kinda sweet up front. I like it, but it's not Lion's in that way. I'm hoping some of the sweetness will balance out as the beer conditions.

A lot of folks like the beer so-far so I'm happy.
 
Heres' the Dragon Stout recipe from Clone brews.

Grains
9.75 pounds American Pale Malt (6-Row)
2.25 pounds Flaked Maize
1.00 pounds Crystal Malt 120L
0.50 pounds British Chocolate Malt
0.30 pounds British Black Patent Malt
0.15 pounds British Roasted Barley
0.50 pounds Brown Sugar (Dark)
1.50 pounds Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
0.35 ounces Magnum @ 60 minutes
WYEAST California Lager 2112 — Liquid

* Mash grains at 155 with 4.6 gallons for 60 minues.
* Vorlauf for last 15 mins.
* Sparge with 5 gallons at 172
* Collect 6.75 gallons
* Boil 90 minutes
* Hops at 60
* Irish moss at 10
* Cool and pitch
* Ferment low 60's.

Has anyone had both Dragon and Lion that can give a good comparison?

Unfortunately, I've only had the dragon stout, but do you think this would be easy to convert to an extract recipe?
 
I brought a bunch of my beer, meads and apfelwein to our Natl homebrew day big brew and people absolutely loved this beer- It was brewed back in November there. People really liked the flavors from the date palm mollases that I primed with. One of the guys in our group, who's a bjcp judge actually told me it was one of his favorite brews of mine that he's had.
 
I brought a bunch of my beer, meads and apfelwein to our Natl homebrew day big brew and people absolutely loved this beer- It was brewed back in November there. People really liked the flavors from the date palm mollases that I primed with. One of the guys in our group, who's a bjcp judge actually told me it was one of his favorite brews of mine that he's had.

Did the in your face sweetness from the mollases mellow over the last 5 months?
 
Lion stout is a bit tough b/c 1) its on the other side of the world and 2) there is really no solid information on it. The numbers are easy enough to come up with and the ingredients are pretty standard for all tropical stouts. All the clone recipes I've seen for Lion are usually quite wrong. They use too much malt, not enough sugar and defintely too much roast malt.

Have you ever had the Jamaican Dragon stout? Its quite similar. A little smoother and lower in alcohol. That one I have a sure replication of since i visitied the brewery. Its a good one to start with as you can add any sort of roastier flavors you want. If you like I can manipulate it and give you my best guess at a Lion clone. I've done a few before and can see with what I come up with, yeah?
can you post the jamaican dragon stout recipe?
 
You mean other than the one that is quoted 3 posts above yours, as well as several other versions at the beginning of this thread?

I mean Kris's version, the one where he quotes " sure replication of since i visitied the brewery"
 
Hey Revvy,

If you read this, did you end up going with the lactose? I'm using a slightly tweaked version of Kris' recipe, fermenting right now, and will be adding lactose, burnt sugar, and a couple pounds of toasted coconut, before getting racked to a used rum barrel for some rum flavor and (hopefully) a very subtle touch of oak, and I'm wondering what you think about the lactose - was planning to add a half pound.
 
Well, it's been a while. Any new info? Did it mellow into perfection? Try any other recipes?

I'm also in the Detroitish area. Where did you get some of this stuff?

Thanks for having the only decent drive on this beer on the entire internet.
 
Trying my hand at this beer has been on my To Do List ever since Revvy started this thread. It is amazing that it has been one of my next beers all this time. I picked up some jaggery and kithul treacle today. I was excited to see where the treacle is from.

2rh5jsl.jpg
 
Reviving this thread because my homebrew club is having quarterly competitions on some of the new styles in the 2015 BJCP style guide and the next style we have chosen is tropical stout. And BYO now has Kristen England's Dragon Stout recipe on their website (buried in his article on using debittered black malt) and this thread is frankly the most useful thing on the internets about tropical stout so I thought I would help close the loop:
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1671-debittered-black-malt

I'm not sure I will even like the beer, but I am thinking I will set aside one gallon of the beer for the competition and turn the rest of the batch into a mole stout, as tropical stout seems to be the perfect base for that style of beer.
 
Witherby, did you brew the Dragon Stout clone? I plan on brewing a tropical stout some time soon and, apparently like quite a few others, I'm having some difficulty finding a tested recipe.
 
Witherby, did you brew the Dragon Stout clone? I plan on brewing a tropical stout some time soon and, apparently like quite a few others, I'm having some difficulty finding a tested recipe.

I finally brewed it just last week, so it isn't a tested recipe yet. Here is what I went with for a 3 gallon batch:

7 lb Pale 2-Row (UK)
8 oz Crystal 80L (US)
8 oz De-Bittered Black (BE)
8 oz Flaked Oats
1 lb Piloncillo (Panela) sugar (Boil)
5 oz Lactose (Boil)

0.6 oz Magnum (US) 60 min Boil

English Ale Yeast White Labs WLP002

Kris England said that his recipe often ends up drying out too much, and with all of that sugar in my recipe that was a risk, so my plan was to mash high, add lactose, and use a yeast that isn't super attenuative. It sure smells good!
 
...so I was reading through this thread more than anything trying to figure out where to frickin' GET tropical stouts to compare the recipes I've been working on to, since none of the bottle shops in my area seem to have even HEARD of the style.

Sounds like Caribbean or perhaps Indian markets are my best bet?
 
...so I was reading through this thread more than anything trying to figure out where to frickin' GET tropical stouts to compare the recipes I've been working on to, since none of the bottle shops in my area seem to have even HEARD of the style.

Sounds like Caribbean or perhaps Indian markets are my best bet?

Gee, come to think of it, I can't recall when I last saw or had a Lion's Stout.

Guiness Foreign Extra stout is pretty close, but I don't think it's done with lager yeast.

Doing some googling now...

Finland has one?!?!?!?!

Have you seen this? Flying Dog Tropical Stout?

Cigar city has a barrel aged tropical stout evidently.

Here's an article on them with more I never heard of.

"Sri Lanka's Lion Stout is probably the most well-known — and best — tropical stout, but you should also keep an eye out for Jamaica Stout, brewed by Big City Brewing in Kingston, or ABC Extra Stout, brewed in Singapore. Although technically not a tropical stout, Ethiopia's Hakim Stout fits the profile and is well-worth seeking out."

Now you got me thinking about doing one.
 
Gee, come to think of it, I can't recall when I last saw or had a Lion's Stout.

Guiness Foreign Extra stout is pretty close, but I don't think it's done with lager yeast.

Doing some googling now...

Finland has one?!?!?!?!

Have you seen this? Flying Dog Tropical Stout?

Cigar city has a barrel aged tropical stout evidently.

Here's an article on them with more I never heard of.

"Sri Lanka's Lion Stout is probably the most well-known — and best — tropical stout, but you should also keep an eye out for Jamaica Stout, brewed by Big City Brewing in Kingston, or ABC Extra Stout, brewed in Singapore. Although technically not a tropical stout, Ethiopia's Hakim Stout fits the profile and is well-worth seeking out."

Now you got me thinking about doing one.

My local bottle shops, thus far, do not carry Flying Dog's, Dragon Stout, ABC Extra Stout, Royal Extra Stout, Lion Stout, or Jamaica Stout (the last 5 being the BJCP 2015's example list for the style). Of the major retailers that have website inventories, Bevmo has never heard of any of them (even though it carries a plethora of other Flying Dog products) and Total Wine has one bottle of one in a store in Georgia, a couple bottles of another in a store in Washington, etc. (Just checked; neither has the Finnish one either). None of the smaller bottle shops that don't have online inventories that I've been in have had any of them, either, at least that I could find (organization tends to be pretty random and the people behind the counter tend to have "heard of tropical IPAs, but..."

Hakim Stout might be worth looking for; there's apparently enough demand for a couple of Ethopian restaurants in town...
 
Gee, come to think of it, I can't recall when I last saw or had a Lion's Stout.

I see it all the time in Chicago @ Binny's, but it appears to be "in store only"

http://www13.binnys.com//beer/Lion_Stout_821152.html


I thought the recipe I made had potential, but I used too much jaggery. However, it started out having the worst acetaldehyde I've ever tasted, like latex paint. I tried everything to clean it up. Aging it for a year didn't help. warming it up and bubbling co2 through it didn't do anything. Krausening seemed to help a little. Then when I make back to back stouts, I used the yeast cake of the first one, racked the lion stout on top of it and added a gallon of beer from the 2nd stout. It did the trick. The acetaldehyde was gone, but by this point I had oxidation issues and finally gave up.
 
Looking at brewing this up after I knock out a NZ IPA and a Nugget Nectar clone.

The recipe I'm thinking of going with is:

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs 2 oz Brewers Malt 6-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM) Grain 78.94 %
11 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 4.93 %
11 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.93 %
2.31 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 35.9 IBU
2 # 2oz Jaggery Sugar (2.0 SRM) Sugar 7.48 % (Two of the "cones" pictured below.)
8.4 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 3.72 %
3 oz Date Palm syrup or Date palm mollasses. [Boil for 15 min] (See picture below.)

2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

Mash at 153 for 60 minutes.
Bitterness: 35.9 IBU
Est Original Gravity: 1.081
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.89 %

Would you say the taste is more coca/chocolate or more brown sugar like?

I'm also thinking of going with WY 1272, American Ale II, as it's been my go to for a little while now as it seems to be very reliable for me, I more or less get 76% attenuation out of it. Thoughts?

Would you say drop the date palm molasses for treacle? Would making some homemade candi syrup work?
 
zombie update:

Got a hold of a bottle since I found it randomly back in the US (hadn't seen it for close to a decade).
Degassed and measured -
FG - 1.009!
pH:4.09

Stated ABV on the bottle is 8.8% so OG is ~1.075-76. Lots of simple sugars used in brewing this beer, I would suspect.
 
I'm reviving this zombie thread, as I am planning a sort of Lion Stout clone. One of my favorite beers, though I haven't seen it in local stores in 10 years or so.

I am finally planning to brew this in the next day or two, a 5.5 gallon batch. My recipe will be Maris Otter with about 3% each of UK 80 and 150 crystal malt, Special B, roasted barley, and 2% Carafa III. I'll add 1.25 lbs. of jaggery in the boil, and 1/2 lb. lactose to boost body. Bittering additions of East Kent Goldings to about 40 IBU. Will pitch 3 packets of S-23 lager yeast. I plan to ferment at the top of the range, around 58F or so, do a D-rest, lager a month or so, then bottle and age a couple more months.

My recipe is based on elements borrowed from this article and a bit from this recipe, tailored to what grains I have on hand. I picked up a lot of ideas from this thread (thanks, @Revvy!). Don't know how close it will be to the original Lion Stout, but hopefully in the ballpark.

I'll provide brewing notes in a few days and keep you posted!
 
Having read this thread wonder if they use something like wyeast 1007 a top fermenting German ale yeast. More tolerant of warm temps.
I am going to use it in tropical stout recipe.
 
I'm finding conflicting views between ale and lager yeasts for this. Many of the "clone" recipes I find online use ale yeast. I've seen others that use lager yeast. I think one could use either, and for ale yeast, the German ale yeast would be a good choice.
 
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I brewed mine yesterday. Everything went fairly well, though my OG was 4 points under and volume 1/2 gal over. Boiloff wasn't as much as I had expected, probably due to the fact I had just over 7 gallons of wort pre-boil in an 8 gal kettle and I had to go slow on the boil for a while, even with Fermcap. Mashed at 156 for a 60 min rest, did the Gordon Strong method of adding roasted grains in the last 20 minutes of the mash. I want this beer to be smooth. Bittered with EKG, was able to chill to 57F, as my ground water in MN is still very cold! Direct-pitched 3 packets of S-23 and set in the ferm chamber at 57. I'll let it ferment, do a D-rest, then lager a month or so and bottle.
 
Just drew a sample from the Brew Bucket, it's been lagering a month at 38F. I'll bottle it tomorrow, and carb with some muscovado. FG was a bit high, 1.022, so only around 5.5%. Don't care, as the hydro sample smelled and tasted awesome. I was never shooting for the nearly 9% of the real deal. Just looking forward to that smooth, malty, roasty flavor.

It'll be tough waiting for them to condition. :)
 
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Poured the first bottle, after 2 weeks conditioning. Very smooth roastiness, nice flavor and aroma. Not in-your-face roasty, not cloying, either. Decent hops balance. Head stuck around a while. It went down the hatch WAY too easily. ;) It's been several years since I have had a Lion Stout, but this beer of mine isn't it. It lacks the rich, silky texture, and at 5.5% it's way below Lion's 8.8%. But I am not disappointed at all and I will enjoy this anyway.

Lion Cub Stout.

20230614_163146.jpg
 
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Had my first test of the tropical stout 4.8% much more coffee and roast flavour than I've managed with previous stouts.

Never made such a dark beer before, can't wait to get it on the nitro tap but got to finish the preprohibition porter first.

Patience.
IMG_20230607_152139.jpg
IMG_20230607_152013.jpg
 
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