Need some parti-gyle help!

I'm trying to wrap my head around doing a Barley wine/ ordinary bitter parti- gyle. I've read various threads (Revvy's party-gyle thread helped a great deal) and I'm still looking for a ballpark figure of what my first runnings would be. In other words, what percentage of all sugars converted comes through the first runnings? Here's my basic game plan:

-develop a recipe for my 3 tier keg system (10 gal batch) with an original gravity of about 1.066 (in my case at 75-80% efficiency, 23.50 lbs of grain)

-mash at 1.25 qt/pd and sparge with .5 gal/pd

- start my fly sparge and gather 6.5-7 gallons preboil for my barley wine

-continue fly sparging and gather 5.5-6 gallons preboil for my bitter

-Take gravity readings and adjust hop schedule accordingly

Given my goals of a fairly strong barley wine (not atomic) of 1.085 +, and a ordinary at 1.035+ , is this reasonable for this grain bill or am I missing something?

No matter what, it will be beer. I just want to have some kind of "template" to plan my hop schedules. Thanks for any help

My experience has been about 2/3rds of the sugars end up in the first half of the sparge, so you should be close.

2/3rds makes sense given my research. I guess I can have some turbinado or dme on hand to tweak things when I get actual gravity readings.

While I'm at it how bout some recipe critique:

Barley wine 1.085
S-o4 yeast cake

22 lbs marris otter
.75lbs british crystal
.75lbs british amber

Northdown/northern brewer for bittering (60 Ibus)
ekg's for flavor, aroma, dry hop

Ordinary (parti-gyle) 1.035

Ekg 25IBU's
Fuggles for flavor

Any ideas how to calculate it for a batch sparge? Would the first runnings just be the entire first beer and the sparge water be the small beer?

give this a read and look over the charts. It may help some in figuring how to calculate you parti-gyle

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

Just posted this in the other party-gyle thread in this forum:
On Monday I did a party-gyle with a BarleyWine in the first runnings and an IPA in the second runnings.

My MLT is only 10 gallons and I was OK with using sugar for 10% of fermentables here was my procedure:
Recipe:
27lbs of 2-row
1.5 lbs of 40l Crystal
1.5 lbs of 120l Crystal

I added 28L of water (max capacity) to my tun and mashed at 151F for 90 minutes
Drained this and added 16L (again max capacity) of sparge water at approx 192 to sparge at 170 for 15 minutes
drained this completely giving me around 8.5 gallons of wort, 90 minute boil, 1st bittering hops 3oz of Columbus at 75 minutes and 3 oz of Cascade for aroma hops at 5 minutes
with 15 minutes to go took a reading calculated 4lbs of corn sugar would give me OG of 1.112 added sugar

After I took out my first sparge I added another 16L to let it sit at 160F for the 1st 60 minutes of the BarleyWine boil
I drained that and added a final sparge of 14L and let that sit 20 more minutes then drained
so as my 90 minute boil wrapped up my 3rd and 4th sparges gave me 7.5 gallons of wort which was 1.050 which after boil off would be 6 gallons of 1.062
I did a ton of late hop additions 6 oz mix, 2 oz each of williamette, northern brewer and cascade added 1 oz every 5 minutes from 25 minutes to 1 minute

So there's my story, I got 6 gallons of BarleyWine at 1.112 and 6 gallons of an IPA at 1.062. If you take out the sugar added I get 12 gallons of beer at an average of 1.072 which BeerSmith tells me is 80% efficiency for that grain bill, I normally get 80-84% efficiency with my system.

My advice would be 2-fold
1. Focus on the strong BarleyWine and make sure you get the OG as high as you want if you have to take a little more wort and boil longer to get the volume down thats ok, also using sugar is ok to most say up to 10% of fermentables is fine.
2. Be flexible, I had up to 6lbs of sugar ready to go because I had no idea exactly where the runnings of the BarleyWine were going to be. Also for the IPA I was ready with sugar to top up if the OG was too low and was willing to decrease the hop amounts as well to match the SG.

To answer your questions if you were to make a recipe that yielded 2 batches at 1.066 then your BarleyWine would come out around 1.088 and your bitter around 1.043 in my experience.
Like I said above I find flexibility is key, I'd say gather the pre-boil volume you need for the goal post-boil volume, do a gravity reading and calculate post-boil gravity, if its close you're golden if its too low you can either add more wort and boil longer to get to the goal or add some sugar, in a BarleyWine up to 10% sugar isn't noticeable.
Also like you said adjust your hopping accordingly to match your actual gravity readings.

Thanks Veinman, you've confirmed some research I've been doing the last couple days. I'm looking forward to this endeavour. I've got a few pounds of DME on hand, but I have a feeling the numbers are going to work just fine. Did you look at my basic recipe? Any thoughts? Thanks

Your recipe looks a lot like mine except its a little lower OG and thus lower IBU's other than that it seems right on, I also used a s-04 yeast cake.

The only thing I will mention is table or corn sugar should work just fine or better (certainly cheaper) for topping up if you miss your OG. The reason I used sugar over extract was because my OG was soo high and wanted to make sure my wort was fermentable enough, I know sometimes extract will leave a high FG and you likely don't want that in the case of a BarleyWine which will already finish pretty high.

Just wanted to update this thread since I actually brewed it.

All the numbers worked out. Great brew day!

First 7 gallons collected, boiled to 5.5 gallons with an OG of 1.092. Pitched 200ml of s-o4 slurry.
Second runnings of 6.5, boiled to 5 gallons with an OG of 1.042. Pitched 75ml of s-o4 slurry.

Both beers fermenting well.

Thanks for the help. Dave