Mom & Pop Stores

I was listening to the Jamil show last night.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/jamil.php
He was suggesting that we support our LHBS. I would like to suggest that we support local stores in general.

Several years ago I was trying to get everyone I knew to rent vids from their local mom & pop store. My rational was I would rather give my money to someone who lives in the community than some fat cat down in Miami. Now the Blockbusters are all closing after running all the mom & pop’s out of business. Where do we go now to rent vids on the spur of the moment? S.O.L.?

While it is true that you can save a few $$$ sometimes buying online. What is going to happen when you need yeast today (now) and your LHBS is out of business? S.O.L.?

All this from a guy that has worked his entire carrier in manufacturing for someone else.

I've tried to support the local guy as best I can, but for big purchases, it's hard... I mean, he's asking $220 for a Schmidling malt mill (and I'm not even sure it's one of the adjustable models). Given that the service I've received there from him employees has been spotty recently, that the quality of the crush I receive is terrible, and that he ain't really local anyway (it's almost a three hour round trip)...

I am buying whatever I can from another local guy that's also started a homebrew club. But, medicore businesses should not be given business simply because they're local; all things being equal, I'd rather drop the coin locally, but all things are not always equal.

Chris_Dog said:

I was listening to the Jamil show last night.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/jamil.php
He was suggesting that we support our LHBS. I would like to suggest that we support local stores in general.

Click to expand...

First off, we don't have a LHBS. Second, I don't make enough $$ to spend a bunch more on something as an act of charity towards so-called "mom & pop shops". I go local on produce, etc., because it's simply better. I visit local shops when they have a more unique, specialized, exotic selection than the groceries, or when they're easier to get to than the big boxes. But due to the crappy hours, the lack of enough employees, and the poor selection relative to the boxes, I rarely hit up, for example, local hardware stores. No matter how much you want to support "the little guy", nothing sucks more than the effing hardware store being closed at 6pm or not having the right size bolt.

Several years ago I was trying to get everyone I knew to rent vids from their local mom & pop store. My rational was I would rather give my money to someone who lives in the community than some fat cat down in Miami. Now the Blockbusters are all closing after running all the mom & pop’s out of business. Where do we go now to rent vids on the spur of the moment? S.O.L.?

Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty much. Look at it this way: if there's not enough business to sustain a bricks-n-mortar Blockbuster, then there probably wouldn't be enough to support the local guy that used to be there. In other words, he'd be closing down just like WalMart...mainly due to online services like Netflix. If there IS enough business, and BB just shut down because of corporate issues, then there's an obvious economic vacuum just waiting to be filled by yet another local video store.

But, yeah, you might be SOL if there isn't enough market demand in your area to sustain a bricks-n-mortar video shop. I mean, I don't have a LHBS within 90 minutes of my house, but what are you gonna do?

The simple economic realities of the market are often more powerful a driver of consumer preference than your romantic visions of a bunch of cheery mom-n-pop shops on a tree-lined main street. Most people can't or won't afford to "go local" for most stuff just to support mom and pop. Myself included. Once I make my millions, then I'll think about charity. But even then, there are kids dying all over the world that could use my money more than mom and pop. Think about it this way: should I spend more at mom and pop shops as a charity to them, or should I shop at WalMart and send the money I save to kids dying of malnutrition in africa? Not so easy to say "go local" then.

Wow not quite the response that I was expecting however this is good too.

Well, I just tend to take a rational approach to things. As nice as it would be to have a LHBS, it's just not rational to pay a LOT more for a (probable) substandard selection. I've never seen a local homebrew shop that had the selection of AHS or Midwest. I'm sure they exist (like, say, if you leave near the actual location of AHS), but they're the exception. And it costs more too, usually.

No offense, honestly. I just see, all too often, towns rally against WalMart because they don't want a big box store in their vicinity...but once they build it, those same townspeople go there and shop because it's cheaper, has a better selection, and has better hours.

I used to have a "local" HBS about 10 miles away, but they closed years ago.
Today the closest places are about 20 miles away (30 minute drive), or 40 miles away (45-60 minutes). The further place is where I frequent the most because of the knowlege/helpfulness of the staff.

Equipment I will usually web order because of prices, but so far for brewing ingredients I'm still shopping "locally".

I have a semi-local HBS that's just a bit under a 1 hour drive each way. In my monster truck that 80 miles round-trip costs me probaby $12-$18 in gas.

I pay $1.90/lb at the LHBS for the same pale malt that I can get from AHS for $1.35/lb and it cost me 1/3 as much to have it shipped from over 1,000 miles away as it would for me to drive there myself. Plus AHS actually knows how to crush grains.

It's just not economical for me.

A close friend and I were talking about this very sort of thing two days ago. He was laughing about how excited I currently am doing the homebrew thing. He asked if I had any grand plans of selling beer, or making it for a living one day, and like so many of my hobbies I told him it would probably ruin the fun of the whole thing.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand... I was telling him that I'd really love to have a shop that sold specialty items to like-minded people. I can't see how one could really become successful these days with a store that specialized in just one thing though. I'd love to see a hobby shop that represented a greater spectrum then just one genre of person, and possibly have more of a masculine slant, not to be really biased, but I don't see lines of guys at most craft stores. It'd also have to really cater to the kind of customer who'd be willing to pay that little bit more than the online price to have what they really needed immediately rather then waiting for a number of days for shipping.

My hobbies include beermaking , radio control modeling, amateur radio, computers, motorcycling, cooking, and fishing, just to name a few. The ladies seem to have places like Michael's Crafts to get assorted googdies that they need for everything from scrapbooking to needlepoint to painting, where's the same kind of store for the guys (or ladies with stereotypical "guy" hobbies)?

Anyone know where the LHBS, r/c, tackle, electronic, parts store is that's nearby? Oh yeah, it has to be open till at least midnight, and weekends, to accommodate my needs during my time off, not during the time I'm at work.

That's why I end up buying so much online, there's no such store. Now I just need to win the lotto and open my own place like this, only the customer service would suck because I'd be wanting to play with all the merchandise too much to actually help anyone out with it:rockin: !

Umm, yeah, sorry if that doesn't make too much sense, I may have rambled at bit..
Matt

I support mine for grains, yeast & hops and misc equipment (hoses, adapters). When it comes to kegging or other higher $ equipment I go online. He just costs too much. I just bought a barley crusher online because LHBS had crap for a selection and twice as much.

But, then again I have a darn good LHBS who is cost competitive on ingredients and convenience is always high priority to me. I decide to brew usually 1-2 days before. This is a side business for my LHBS owner and he hires college guys for the most part to run the storefront. He has a real job too...

The other problem with mom + pop places is freshness. If the local place doesn't have terribly high turnover, should you continue giving them your business if it means your beer will suffer? I'll usually buy specialty ingredients like rauchmalt online, since I know NB's going to rotate through the sacks of that a lot quicker than Hennessy, and if I were an extract brewer I would have to consider how long the LME had sat around before I bought it.

I'm pretty lucky that I have 3 lhbs within a 30 minute ride. 1 of them is 5 minutes from home. The selection varies from store to store. But the service is usually excellent at all 3. Almost time to get over to Woonsocket again and spend some money over there.

Evan! said:

...No offense, honestly. I just see, all too often, towns rally against WalMart because they don't want a big box store in their vicinity...but once they build it, those same townspeople go there and shop because it's cheaper, has a better selection, and has better hours.

Click to expand...

That's funny! Down here it seems that the locals cheer the new Wal-Marts, as they're doing more to employ the locals then any of the Mom&Pops.

I have similar problems with the locals: distance and hours. Makes very little sense to drive 2-3 hours to get minor items and since I tend to "be in the area" in the evenings, they aren't open. I try to go to a local when I'm doing a recipe, but only if I can schedule 3-4 other errands at the same time. Otherwise, shipping is much cheaper than driving.

My LHBS has decent prices on anything that isn't consumed. Better Bottles are cheaper (sticker) than any of the online stores even without shipping. The reason I don't spend a little more on grains and stuff is simple... Freshness.

As for supporting local businesses, that's a toss up. Economics says that with limited space and set, recurring expenses, a business can't afford to stock items they'll never sell. That means that the things a "mom and pop" store would stock are things they're going to sell.

Just like Wal-Mart.

The problem is... For groceries and stuff, there ARE no mom and pop stores around here... Even the small "homely" organic hippy produce market is a state-wide chain.

For things that are NOT groceries, like DVDs and books, I can't find what interests me. Good LUCK finding DVD episodes of cancelled British comedies to rent at ANY brick and mortar store in the US, let alone ones close enough to me to counter the drive and gas expenses.

Though, now that I think about it.... My problems tend to be of selection, and I've even stormed out of Wal-Mart for not stocking things I want/need and as they told me when I first moved to Kentucky...

"You'll find everything you need at the Wal-Mart!"

I support my LHBS and pick up probably half of my stuff from there. If he's competitive, I'll buy. If not, I'll order online. It doesn't matter to me if I'm supporting a guy a couple of towns over or a couple of states over. What matters is my convenience.

And you're acting like online HBSs are some sort of BIG business. They're not. They're mostly small businesses that were savvy enough to expand their market. You have to give them credit for that.

I used to rent from mostly mom and pop video stores because they typically had the same selection of movies and similar pricing. If you tried to get me to use a video store that didn't have any new releases and wanted more money per rental simply because they were local, I'd laugh at you.

Local is fine, but you HAVE to be competitive and even have some advantages.

rdwj said:

Local is fine, but you HAVE to be competitive and even have some advantages.

Click to expand...

I totally agree there. However, I do need to point out the obvious...

Big Chains get volume discounts. Wal-mart buys MILLIONS of gallons of Cascade dish detergent a year and because they can load it on their OWN trucks, fill up with fuel from companies they buy oil from in volume (http://www.murphyoilcorp.com/), stock it super efficiently with employees who get paid the absolute minimum they will accept and then have YOU ring it up yourself.

There is no WAY that a mom and pop store could EVER pass on the savings that that generates.

As for the DVD rental thing...

I have a friend who managed ordering for Hollywood Video. Movie studios require minimum orders. Sony, for example, won't ship rental DVD's (which cost $140 each because they "license" them for commercial use) unless you order 1,000 copies. Blockbuster has NO problem meeting that, nor does Netflix or Redbox.

rdwj said:

And you're acting like online HBSs are some sort of BIG business. They're not. They're mostly small businesses that were savvy enough to expand their market. You have to give them credit for that.

Click to expand...

I didn't mean to even imply that... I am sure Austin Homebrew (or the like) are small business too.

MoreBeer and Austin HomeBrew are where I get most of my stuff when I don't get it locally.

I don't think we should be stupid consumers because of some lofty goals. I know I don't have the $$$ for that.

I tried hard to support my LHBS. At first, the selection was decent, and the prices beat most online prices + shipping. However, I had to give up. The service was downright awful - I had to cancel a LARGE order after a month of waiting. I think a lot of folks gave up on them, actually. Their current inventory is horrible, and they quit carrying grain.

I quit ordering from MoreBeer for similar reasons - backordered products hold up your entire order, and sometimes the backordered products aren't marked properly on the website. They are now my last resort for online ordering.

I use Austin Homebrew and Northern Brewer now, and I've had zero problems.

I go to the same LHBS that bird was refering to. I happen to like the owner, but I agree with bird, thier prices are alot higher than I can get online. With the low special shipping rates Austin and Northern Brewer have now it was cheeper for me to place my last order online then to drive to the store. I will still stop in and pick up the smaller stuff and to BS with him but most of my buys will be online. About the only exception I may make will be for yeast and bags of grain. And the grain is only because it is too pricey to ship unless I could find someone to split a pallet from a drop ship

My local video store sucks. They hire the rudest people possible and are really fishy on late fees.

Hasting's is much better. They give you credits for turning movies in on time. Hire nice staff. Always well stocked.

I shop where I get the best service. Local or not. I hate shipping Wal-Mart. I go there to buy ammo and that's about it and it's only because they are the only store that sells it.

I do buy all my produce and some meat locally though. Farmer's Markets every Tuesday.

I think what everyone is saying is they would if it made sense to.

I am pretty lucky in the fact that I have three local homebrew shops within a decent (non rush hour) drive from me and two more a bit further a way. They don't always have everything I want but they are friendly. I have had excellent service from AustinHomebrew but I am really trying to buy locally because I want these stores to say in business not just for my use but it is good for the hobby in general.

I also live less than a mile from a Market where I can do 80% of my food shopping. I pick up the rest of my stuff from Publix and Target.

I don't really go out of my way to buy from local businesses but I choose to because they offer the best service to me (usually).