Opinions needed for brew sculpture burners

Hello,

I am building a brew sculpture (for 10-gallon batches) and am having troubles deciding on the burners. I need three of them (BK, HLT, MT), and I'd like to run them off a single 20lb propane tank.

I initially planned to go with the BG-14 10" burners, but from what I've been reading there are some problems with this:

- High BTU's freeze the flow regulator on the tanks occasionally
- Claims that the burners don't work any better than ones with less BTU's (such as the 6" LP burner that comes with the SQ-14).

I'm pretty much open to anything. Any suggestions, including the regulator to use would be helpful!

Thanks in advance.

Three of the 6" ring type burners (same as the SQ-14 burners) with the gas supplied by three separate (0-15 psi) adjustable pressure regulators would be my choice. The burners and regulators are relatively inexpensive and will be more than adequate for 12 gallon batches. These burners have the power you need, are quite fuel efficient and they have excellent flame control at any level.

Hi Catt - I think I was reading another post where you were talking about doing this - (if it wasn't you then it's scary how similar the reply is!) It was saying to use 3 of these regs for the burners, connected to the rail and then the rail end connects to a high pressure fixed regulator before the tank? Though there was some talk of using the 10" burners for the HLT and BK and then 6" for the MT. Any benefit to doing so? Also, what pressure regulator for the high pressure would you use?

Thanks!

If you keep the 6" burners high pressure, then they should be ok. They take about the same amount of time to bring wort to a boil as the standard turkey fryer burners. Brewed with a buddy with those same burners but were converted to low pressure for an automated system run with the honeywell solenoids and they took forever to bring the temps up.

This is where I start to get really lost.

So if we're talking these: http://bayouclassicdepot.com/bg12_cast_iron_burner.htm then should I still use 1 of these for each: http://www.agrisupply.com/lp-gas-regulator-adjustable-w-24hose/p/64640/ + one high-pressure for the tank? I am not very knowledgeable here so I could use some guidance.

I have an sq 14 and it works great. For boiling wort I wouldn't want anything else. For heating up water you might want high pressure but you can heat up water with the low pressure just fine. I have never had a high pressure so I don't know about the propane usage, but I would assume it would use a lot more. I would be scared of controlling the boil with a high pressure burner. I still have boil-overs with the low pressure periodically.

I gotta say all those low-pressure/high-pressure stuff is super confusing Especially when I find the BG12 on one site and it says low pressure, then another site and it says high pressure!

You can't beat aggrisupplies prices & I have bought all my regs & burners from them , I run one adjustable reg
( http://www.agrisupply.com/lp-gas-adjustable-regulator-with-hose-/p/50678/cn/5400007/ ) it will adjust as low as you want .
These burners for a 2 tier , 3 keggle sytem ( http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400000/ )

jcaudill said:

Hi Catt - I think I was reading another post where you were talking about doing this - (if it wasn't you then it's scary how similar the reply is!) It was saying to use 3 of these regs for the burners, connected to the rail and then the rail end connects to a high pressure fixed regulator before the tank? Though there was some talk of using the 10" burners for the HLT and BK and then 6" for the MT. Any benefit to doing so? Also, what pressure regulator for the high pressure would you use?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

That may well have been me as I have suggested this configuration more than once IIRC. First off, the high pressure vs low pressure designations can certainly be confusing, but generally when referring to propane, low pressure is about 1 psi or less and high pressure is anything above that. The best of both worlds can be had by using a variable pressure regulator. These are available in 0-5, 0-10, 0-15, 0-30, 0-60 psi versions that I have seen. The 0-15 psi models would be suitable for most of the burners we typically encounter, but if running multiple burners there may be situations where a higher pressure unit would be preferable. I'm not an expert on this stuff, so keep that in mind.

There are two reasons that I suggest using separate variable pressure regulators for each burner. First, the adjustable regulators server a dual purpose in that they regulate the pressure and they also serve as the control valve for flame level. IOW, you dial in the flame level with the control knob on the regulator and there is no separate needle valve as there is with a fixed pressure regulator. The variable pressure feature provides good flame control at any level. Secondly, using individual regulators prevents adjustments to one burner from interfering with the others. This probably isn't a big deal, but more of an incidental benefit. It's unlikely that all three burners will be running full blast. Usually you will heat the strike and sparge water with the BK burner off and when you are using the BK burner the HLT will not be running full bore and the MT burner will probably be turned off completely at that point.

I think you could eliminate the fourth high pressure regulator at the tank if you could figure out a way to make the connection from the tank to the gas rail or manifold. It would probably be prudent to have an emergency shutoff valve at the connection to the manifold for added safety. It would probably also be a good idea safety wise to shut the tank valve off first when shutting down for the session in order to vacate the gas line and rail or manifold.

Agri-Supply is about the cheapest source I've seen for burners and regulators. Their web page can be challenging to navigate and depending on who you talk to if you call them, the staff helpfulness can be highly variable.

Here's the link to the 6" burner, but it is comes with a low pressure orifice which you will need to replace with a high pressure one: http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400001/

Here's one version of a 0-15 psi regulator: http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=50678&sid=&eid=

I would call the suppliers when ordering the regulators to confirm the specs, type of connectors, pressure range etc. There are a number of different styles. You will also want to get a corresponding high pressure orifice that will work with your burner/regulator combo and the proper tank connector etc.

Here's a couple of more links that may lead you to what you need, but you will probably have to call and discuss the application with someone and they may or may not be willing or able to guide you. That stuff can be very hit or miss sometimes:

http://www.cajunshoppe.com/regulator.htm

http://www.flameengineering.com/Parts_Accessories.html

http://www.tejassmokers.com/index.html

I've had three sculptures, and every single burner combination. For 10 & 20 gallons, these are the all around best. Efficiency and BTUs!

Desert_Sky said:

I've had three sculptures, and every single burner combination. For 10 & 20 gallons, these are the all around best. Efficiency and BTUs!

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To each his own for sure, but that cup style diffuser burner would be at the very bottom of my list of choices. I have one and IMO it's not very fuel efficient, burns on the dirty side, has poor flame level control, is fairly noisy especially a high power, is prone to plugging up if even minor amounts of debris get into the cup and does not distribute the heat very well at all. I still vote for the SQ-14 type ring burner/regulator combination as the best all around burner.

If you are running all the same type of burners (all low pressure or all high pressure) then you should only need one regulator for your whole set up. Plumb all of your propane off of one line and have the regulator at the tank. You can control gas flow at each burner with a ball valve or a needle valve (cheaper than multiple regulators).

Keep in mind that a lot of low pressure regulators have an auto shut-off that clicks if too much gas pressure hits it at once. They put this in place for your standard home grill in the event of a malfuntion. The valve on your propane tank opens at a high pressure so putting a needle valve between it and your low pressure regulator is a good idea.

Now, the difference between low and high pressure: "Residential applications will generally require 11 inches water column (amount of pressure required to push a column of water up 11 inches in a manometer, or about 6.3 ounces per square inch) and the regulator compensates for these pressure differences in the tank to supply a steady flow of required pressure to the household appliances."~http://www.propane101.com/regulators.htm. Pressures 0-11w.c. is considered low pressure and anything above that is considered high pressure. Even a 0-5psi regulator will output too much pressure for a low pressure burner.

About that, a low pressure burner and a high pressure burner are actually the same thing. What makes them different is the orifice that feeds the burner. A low pressure orifice will be considerably larger than a high pressure orifice. You can save yourself some money by buying a high pressure burner and drilling out the orifice to a low pressure size. General consensus on these boards is that a 3/32" bit does the trick. Do some more reading on here before you take a drill to your fittings. I'm just a guy who listened to another guy that didn't blow himself up.

Catt22 said:

To each his own for sure, but that cup style diffuser burner would be at the very bottom of my list of choices. I have one and IMO it's not very fuel efficient, burns on the dirty side, has poor flame level control, is fairly noisy especially a high power, is prone to plugging up if even minor amounts of debris get into the cup and does not distribute the heat very well at all. I still vote for the SQ-14 type ring burner/regulator combination as the best all around burner.

Click to expand...

Exactly to each his own. I think your confused with this burner however. I have never experienced any of what you said other than the noise. There is never any carbon on my kettle, flame control is accomplished by a ball valve, and why would you get anything in the cup? Never experienced that one.

What you described is exactly how I felt with the SQ-14 type. Especially if there is any wind what so ever

Desert_Sky said:

Exactly to each his own. I think your confused with this burner however. I have never experienced any of what you said other than the noise. There is never any carbon on my kettle, flame control is accomplished by a ball valve, and why would you get anything in the cup? Never experienced that one.

What you described is exactly how I felt with the SQ-14 type. Especially if there is any wind what so ever

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Well, we can at least agree on the noise then. The reason I think it burns dirty is that it is the only burner I've owned which will trip my CO detector when run at high flame levels. Soot was never really an issue. A boil over can easily result in some wort making it's way into the diffuser cup and when that happens you are pretty much screwed until you take it apart and clean it out. I just witnessed that happen to a friend a couple of weeks ago. The same thing happened to me, but that was quite a long time ago. Minor rust accumulation caused some clogging on mine more than once. It's not difficult to disassemble and clean, but it can be a major PIA if there's a problem in the middle of a brewing session. I only very seldom brew outdoors and I think I would postpone a session if it were windy or find a way to block the wind substantially if I was really determined to brew that day.

Ok, so from what I'm reading, basically I either need to get 3 low-pressure burners (like the 6" ones from agrisupply, or the BG-12's and convert them to low-pressure), and plumb them into a common rail that connects to the propane tank either directly, or by way of a regulator.

I say this because, it seems like I have two options:

1) One adjustable regulator between the tank and rail and on each burner a ball valve to control each burners flames

or

2) No regulator between the tank and rail (a safety shutoff valve only), and then each burner gets its own regulator, something like http://www.agrisupply.com/lp-gas-adjustable-regulator-with-hose-/p/50678/cn/5400007/.

Am I on the right track now?

My winter project is a new brew stand. I have been trying to figure out the best burner system/configuration as well. Can someone maybe post a pic so we can visualize and get a better understanding?

I've found a lot of good pictures on this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/

But honestly, pictures don't tell you very much in this case. All the regulators look alike and so do the burners. You may see what people are using but it doesn't necessarily mean it's what you should do. So this is one of those cases I think to figure out what exactly is the theory behind it all, and come up with your own conclusion.

jcaudill said:

Ok, so from what I'm reading, basically I either need to get 3 low-pressure burners (like the 6" ones from agrisupply, or the BG-12's and convert them to low-pressure), and plumb them into a common rail that connects to the propane tank either directly, or by way of a regulator.

IMO, yes on the 6" burners but run them as high pressure with high pressure orifices and high pressure regulator(s). This would provide the most versatility. You can use one regulator with separate control valves for each burner or one adjustable regulator for each burner and no control valves.

I say this because, it seems like I have two options:

1) One adjustable regulator between the tank and rail and on each burner a ball valve to control each burners flames

Yes, but be sure to use high pressure orifices on the burners with the adjustable regulator. This will work so long as the total gas demand does not exceed what the tank and regulator can supply which I suppose could happen with big burners such as the Banjo's.

or

2) No regulator between the tank and rail (a safety shutoff valve only), and then each burner gets its own regulator, something like http://www.agrisupply.com/lp-gas-adjustable-regulator-with-hose-/p/50678/cn/5400007/.

Yes, and this would be my choice. I particularly like using the adjustable regulator on a direct fired mash tun for superior flame level control. The HLT and BK do not benefit as much from this, so pretty much any burner will work OK for those. I would like all three to be identical, but that's only a personal preference thing.

Am I on the right track now?

Click to expand...

...

jcaudill said:

I've found a lot of good pictures on this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/

But honestly, pictures don't tell you very much in this case. All the regulators look alike and so do the burners. You may see what people are using but it doesn't necessarily mean it's what you should do. So this is one of those cases I think to figure out what exactly is the theory behind it all, and come up with your own conclusion.

Click to expand...

+1 Spot on.

Three high pressure banjos running at the same time off of one tank stands a high chance of freezing up the tank and regulator.

Collins - are you referring to the BG14's? Or are you implying this about the BG12's as well?

I don't see why you'd need to run three at once. Two yes, but three not really.

Mainly to high pressure BG14's.

I don't know what you would need three going at once for either unless you were doing a double brewday. Depending on the outside air temperature two of the BG14's running at full blast could freeze up a tank. Will you ever have even two of them up at full blast? Who knows? Some people just like their brew rigs to have the appearance of the fiery pits of Hell. MWAHAHAHA!!

LOL... I do love how those BG14's look - there's no doubt they are pure evil! But, I'm not going to put those in just for that reason only. If the high pressure BG12's will work, maybe with a bit bigger regulator for a bit higher BTU's, I'd rather just do this!

You want a regulator at the tank , the tank pressures can run high , then a gas ball valve at each burner . the 6" burner from agrisupply is all you need , don't get caught up , keep it simple , its not really that complicated .

jdd12364 said:

You want a regulator at the tank , the tank pressures can run high , then a gas ball valve at each burner . the 6" burner from agrisupply is all you need , don't get caught up , keep it simple , its not really that complicated .

Click to expand...

Do what he said. Down the line if you want to automate, you'll have to think about pressures. The high pressure solenoid valves can get really pricey. This thread has some good info on the automation stuff. The valve in that thread is a good price in comparison to some of the others but has to be run on low pressure as do a lot of the others.