Black Patent, Roasted Barley (500L), Black Barley Difference

Are there any differences between Black Patent and dark Roasted Barley (500L)? Are the dark Roasted Barley and Black Barley the same? The Wiki says Black Patent is malted, and Roasted Barley is unmalted? Is that the difference? Do they all impart slightly different flavors, or the same? I'm all confused. Thanks.

Black Patent is indeed made from malt. Roasted Barley is made from unmalted barley. Roasted Barley and Black Patent give entirely different flavors. My suggestion is to go to your LHBS or local brewery and ask them to taste the grains.

Roasted Barley flavors can be described as dry, intensely bitter, roasty, chocolate and coffee. Black Patent malt has many of those flavors, but also is acrid, burnt and ashy.

Again, taste them side by side. The differences will be immediately apparent.

Cheers,

Bob

I'm 99% sure that black barley and roasted barley is the same thing (highly roasted unmalted) aka, the thing required in Stout. Black patent is malted and used mostly in Porters.

Ok, cool, thanks.

Bobby_M said:

I'm 99% sure that black barley and roasted barley is the same thing (highly roasted unmalted) aka, the thing required in Stout. Black patent is malted and used mostly in Porters.

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You are correct, sir.

Bobby_M said:

I'm 100% sure that black barley and roasted barley is the same thing (highly roasted unmalted) aka, the thing required in Stout. Black patent is malted and used mostly in Porters.

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Austinhomebrew said:

You are correct, sir.

Click to expand...

fixed it....

My LHBS didn't have any Black Barley, just Black Patent and lightly Roasted Barley (like 300L), so I used Black Patent in my 2nd version of my Extra Stout. Looks like I'll be brewing it again with Black Barley. Curious if there is going to be a noticeable difference. I'm working on perfecting this recipe, which is going to take some time. 1st version was already great, and I used Roasted Barley 500L UK from Midwest in that one.

I use equal amounts of black patent and black roasted barley in my stout. It really turns out well. 1/3 pound of each for a regular stout and 1/2 pound each for imperial.

Also, I add 1 pound of 60L crystal and a quarter pound chocolate.

How does this compare to your grain bill?

Forrest

Here is my first version, that's in my recipe dropdown, turned out awesome, but changed a couple things trying to make it even better.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (4.0 SRM) Grain 65.45 %
2.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 18.18 %
1.00 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
0.75 lb Roasted Barley (550.0 SRM) Grain 5.45 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
0.25 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 23.1 IBU
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 27.0 IBU
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (30 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale



Here is the modified version:

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 54.55 %
2.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 18.18 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
1.00 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
0.75 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5.45 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.64 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
0.25 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 23.4 IBU
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 27.4 IBU
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (30 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 10Yeast-Ale

I'm trying my second version of a dry stout and have read this thread before.

When I asked the LHBS owner for the darker Roasted Barley, he says "Black Patent."

Knowing what I know, I say "I thought Black Patent was Malted? I need unmalted roasted barley."

He says there is malted and unmalted Black Patent. He gets the unmalted. I trusted him and got it.

I guess he could just be calling the dark roasted barley Black Patent, or he could be full of it. What do you think? Brew it up or change ingredients?

i would personally drop the barley percentage... i brewed a stout with 17% by accident before and the barley over powered everything else. it was still good, but in my opinion i would drop it to 1#. i dont think you need the dextrine malt either.

I'm not using this recipe. I'm using Jamil's Dry Stout recipe.

I'm really only concerned about the differences in the Black Patent and Dark Roasted Barley and whether or not to trust this guy or make sure I have the right ingredients. Thanks though.

Yea Black Patent is malted, Black Barley is 500+L unmalted, and Roasted Barley tends to be 300L, sometimes it's called light.


Yea that modified one was a turn in the wrong direction. Since my first one I've been using a short thermometer, couldn't penetrate the mash enough, and I was inadvertently mashing way too high, thus having way high FG at 1.032. I fixed that now. Btw, the first version got a 43 from a BJCP judge. I'm sticking with the amount of Flaked Barley. I have 2 batches similar to the first carbing in the kegs. Hope they're as good as the first, or better. He said I could have used a little more body, thus the addition of carapils. Here is my latest revised versions. Sucks I had to use Dry Yeast. The city was out of Liquid (liquor store chain is the LHBS here).

Recipe: O'Daniel's Foreign Extra Stout v1.2
Brewer: O'Daniel
Style: Foreign Extra Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (43.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 35.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 63.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.45 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 18.18 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7.27 %
8.0 oz Black Barley (Stout) (550.0 SRM) Grain 3.64 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (415.0 SRM) Grain 3.64 %
4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
1.00 oz Challenger [7.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (40 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
1.00 oz Challenger [7.00 %] (30 min) Hops 16.2 IBU
2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Mash
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
----------------------------
Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 20.63 qt of water at 168.0 F 154.0 F

So, what was the conclusion? Can I use Black Patent (Carafa III in my case) as a sub of Roasted Barley in Dry Stout, or not?

It turned out that I have only 3 oz of Roasted Barley left, if Black Patent doesn't give best results, I can brew IRA instead...

Piotr said:

So, what was the conclusion? Can I use Black Patent (Carafa III in my case) as a sub of Roasted Barley in Dry Stout, or not?

It turned out that I have only 3 oz of Roasted Barley left, if Black Patent doesn't give best results, I can brew IRA instead...

Click to expand...

I tasted each side by side. Honestly, there was a very slight difference. There would have been no way to tell if I wasn't looking for it.

I can't say how much difference it will make in the beer. I say go for it....and be the guinea pig.

I think the only way to really tell would be to brew up a batch of each, but I wimped out and ditched my Black Patent. I only brew once a month so I didn't want to risk it...