16% Sorghum - 84% Brown Rice

http://brew.dkershner.com/2010/blonde-takeover/

So, since I and Jaimi both hate the taste of Sorghum, I thought I would just use very little and see what happens. I will be keeping a fairly close eye on this one. I will be making it right as soon as the ferment chamber opens up on Saturday. After which, I will try to get fermentation done in 10 days and carbonate it up in a couple more. Hopefully the whole process should only take 2 weeks.

Let me know any thoughts you have.

It seems that BRS has very little FAN or Free Amino Nitrogen in it. This is why Sorghum is preferred.

In wine, the same problem is presented since you use fructose instead of maltose. This is overcome with yeast nutrient. I will be adding some to the recipe for the same reason.

dkershner said:

http://brew.dkershner.com/2010/blonde-takeover/

So, since I and Jaimi both hate the taste of Sorghum, I thought I would just use very little and see what happens.

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I bet some good things are going to happen. I just kegged a batch with about 35% sorghum (35% BRS and 30% Quinoa), and you can't taste any of the sorghum funk in it.

I really think the way to go with these beers will be to keep the sorghum under 50% of the total extract volume, I have maths to prove it, but basically sorghum just has too much iron and other minerals compared to barley, so you have to cut it with a lower mineral-content adjunct to avoid the metallicy/minerally aftertaste.

aggieotis said:

I bet some good things are going to happen. I just kegged a batch with about 35% sorghum (35% BRS and 30% Quinoa), and you can't taste any of the sorghum funk in it.

I really think the way to go with these beers will be to keep the sorghum under 50% of the total extract volume, I have maths to prove it, but basically sorghum just has too much iron and other minerals compared to barley, so you have to cut it with a lower mineral-content adjunct to avoid the metallicy/minerally aftertaste.

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Yeah, I am thinking of just starting of a base of the least tasting thing possible, and then just adding things to it to achieve the taste I want. Sorghum screws all of that up though.

Will keep you guys updated.

aggieotis said:

I bet some good things are going to happen. I just kegged a batch with about 35% sorghum (35% BRS and 30% Quinoa), and you can't taste any of the sorghum funk in it.

I really think the way to go with these beers will be to keep the sorghum under 50% of the total extract volume, I have maths to prove it, but basically sorghum just has too much iron and other minerals compared to barley, so you have to cut it with a lower mineral-content adjunct to avoid the metallicy/minerally aftertaste.

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That's great! It makes much more sense now that you say that. So, did you do a mash with the quinoa? When I get back to my office I'll look and see if I did anything where the sorghum was less than half...I doubt it though.

Lcasanova said:

So, did you do a mash with the quinoa?

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Yes I did do a mash with the quinoa. Then added the extracts

Lessons learned:

• My quinoa appeared to be pretty acidic (kilned as base-malt)
• Don't try to increase your pH with baking soda
• Don't try to then compensate with tablespoons worth of lactic acid
• The mash was almost identical in taste and texture to oatmeal (with a horrible lactic acid finish, my fault)
• Stepped up to 160F, then separated liquid, added water, brought mash to 180F for 30 min, then decoction cooled back to 158F and added amylase.
• Amylase enzymes can take a LONG time (took over 24 hours)
• Fortunately I got a good conversion (notes are at home, but it was about what you would expect for a normal grain)
• I need to find a better way to filter out the powder of the ground quinoa, this powder accumulated on the base of the fermenter and cost me about 1.5 gal of precious beer
• As luck would have it, despite the huge amounts of lactic acid in the mash, the flavor didn't seem to stick around in the beer, got lucky on this one.
• Final taste was fantastic, on of my wife's favorites
• Quinoa has HUGE levels of protein. The head retention is excellent, but I think this beer could double as a nutrition shake. Fortunately it's a Wit, so cloudiness is fine.

Next time I'll focus more on the protein rest, grind the grain to be less fine, and get the right ingredients for adjusting pH.

Final thoughts are that Quinoa works excellently in beer; however, due to an almost identical behavior and protein levels as oatmeal I'm not sure the increased cost over oatmeal justifies it as a common ingredient in GF beer except as a specialty grain.

aggieotis said:

Yes I did do a mash with the quinoa. Then added the extracts

Final thoughts are that Quinoa works excellently in beer; however, due to an almost identical behavior and protein levels as oatmeal I'm not sure the increased cost over oatmeal justifies it as a common ingredient in GF beer except as a specialty grain.

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But isn't it easier to malt? I wouldn't even know where to start with oatmeal. That said, I think you are on track with a grind that is a little less fine. I take it you had a lot of it left in the brew pot as well? Maybe getting it a little cooler would help some more drop out of suspension...or would irish moss help?

I really need to get this CPA out of the way so I can get back into malting and the experiments- for now its just occasional brewing.

Lcasanova said:

But isn't it easier to malt?

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I haven't had a problem malting any of the grains, could be the warm Texas weather.

Lcasanova said:

I wouldn't even know where to start with oatmeal.

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Yeah, I'm not sure you can get GF Oats that aren't already rolled.

Lcasanova said:

That said, I think you are on track with a grind that is a little less fine. I take it you had a lot of it left in the brew pot as well? Maybe getting it a little cooler would help some more drop out of suspension...or would irish moss help?

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I actually didn't have much of anything left in the brewpot, it stayed well suspended until left to sit still for a day or two. I did have a hard time getting the dropping the temp quickly before putting it in the fermenter, but the water here is about 80F in the summer. Guess I need to get a pre-chiller. Couldn't use irish moss this round because it's a wit-style...could be wrong on that, but I think wits and hefs shouldn't use the moss.

Best of luck wrapping up the CPA, school is temporary.

Interesting work with the different grains. I'm looking forward trying out a few more gluten free beers now that I know to avoid using all sorghum.

aggieotis said:

school is temporary.

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Unless it is a phd program. Then it lasts forever.........

chilort said:

...now that I know to avoid using all sorghum.

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Don't completely shun sorghum, it's still a great grain and has FAN and such you need. Just don't rely solely on sorghum if you want a great-tasting beer.

aggieotis said:

Don't completely shun sorghum, it's still a great grain and has FAN and such you need. Just don't rely solely on sorghum if you want a great-tasting beer.

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Yeah, technically Sorghum is the best grain to make beer out of and closest that we can use to Barley, it just doesn't taste very good.

Well, I brewed it up, I will keep you guys updated on how fermentation goes...

Notes in case you want to know...
http://brew.dkershner.com/2010/blonde-takeover/

Update:
Fermentation went great, the beer got all the way down to 1.009 and in a hurry.

The beer tastes funny, but it could be due to the rushing and it will change a bunch over the next few days. I can still taste the sorghum in it right now, and it isn't all that weak. Jaimi says she tastes nothing but hop bitterness, and that the beer tastes essentially like nothing.

Oh, and the beer looks like Milk.

dkershner said:

Update:
Fermentation went great, the beer got all the way down to 1.009 and in a hurry.

The beer tastes funny, but it could be due to the rushing and it will change a bunch over the next few days. I can still taste the sorghum in it right now, and it isn't all that weak. Jaimi says she tastes nothing but hop bitterness, and that the beer tastes essentially like nothing.

Oh, and the beer looks like Milk.

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Like milk? Are you sure you aren't drinking your yeast slurry?

Well, I would guess that that much brown rice would ferment quickly but I wouldn't think the sorghum would be detectable at that low a %

How is the body, is it thin?

I also would have thought that irish moss would have gotten is somewhat clear too...any chance you can get a picture of it up?

Lcasanova said:

Like milk? Are you sure you aren't drinking your yeast slurry?

Well, I would guess that that much brown rice would ferment quickly but I wouldn't think the sorghum would be detectable at that low a %

How is the body, is it thin?

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There is a bit of suspended yeast, and some proteins. It needs another couple days to settle in the keg. Otherwise, the beer is white, nearly opaque. I will get some pics up once it does.

I didn't think I would be able to detect the sorghum either, but there is much else to this beer. Or maybe BRS tastes more like sorghum than I thought? Not sure on what is going on there.

Body is a tough one to judge, but it certainly isnt full bodied. This was meant to be a thin bodied beer anyway, and it finished quite low.

Lcasanova said:

I also would have thought that irish moss would have gotten is somewhat clear too...any chance you can get a picture of it up?

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Pretty difficult to get anything clear after 10 days. I would struggle with it even if I had a conical. It'll clear out in a few days just sitting in the kegerator.

dkershner said:

There is a bit of suspended yeast, and some proteins. It needs another couple days to settle in the keg. Otherwise, the beer is white, nearly opaque. I will get some pics up once it does.

I didn't think I would be able to detect the sorghum either, but there is much else to this beer. Or maybe BRS tastes more like sorghum than I thought? Not sure on what is going on there.

Body is a tough one to judge, but it certainly isnt full bodied. This was meant to be a thin bodied beer anyway, and it finished quite low.

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I was thinking about the protein content of the BRS and the yeast causing the opacity, but probably more the BRS?? And now that I think of it, maybe the BRS fermented almost completely and doesn't leave much character which is why you can taste the sorghum since it doesn't ferment all the way out......Just throwing around ideas here.

I've always thought that any type of rice adjunct we used was really just to boost abv

Lcasanova said:

I was thinking about the protein content of the BRS and the yeast causing the opacity, but probably more the BRS?? And now that I think of it, maybe the BRS fermented almost completely and doesn't leave much character which is why you can taste the sorghum since it doesn't ferment all the way out......Just throwing around ideas here.

I've always thought that any type of rice adjunct we used was really just to boost abv

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Briess says Brown rice extract has a faint, but present taste*. It could be just that there is nothing to hide the sorghum flavor, but Jaimi has noted that this is the least sorghumy tasting beer she has had, although there is another taste present that is making her pucker her mouth...tartness. I have no idea what that could be really...

*Briess also says sorghum has no aftertaste...so who knows if we can trust their tastebuds.

Well, the beer is finally coming into its own. The results are much more pleasing, a light, but not white color. A taste reminiscent of bisquick says the GF drinker. All in all, I think brown rice syrup might be a great thing to experiment with.

I will take a picture next time she has a glass in the day time.

http://brew.dkershner.com/2010/blonde-takeover/

Pic is up!