German Pils Tiber's Premium Pils (1st Place German style Pilsner)
- Thread starter Tiber_Brew
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Here's an update.
Just tapped my second keg out of a 10 gallon batch of this, which had a few weeks longer than the first keg to lager. The first keg at 3-4 weeks lagering was very nice and crisp. This one even more so. Even considering the old cheesy hops(Doh! Never again!)) I used contributing to a very off taste in the first keg, this has mellowed considerably, and is still one of the most balanced/refreshing lagers I have brewed thus far. Anyone have any suggestions what to add/take away from this recipe to get closer to a Czech Pilsner. I'm really wanting to avoid a decoction if possible. Would a step mash be needed for a Czech style? What does this add? If so, Should I follow the same step schedule? Add the Melanoiden Malt in the original recipe?
Cheers! Here's a pic from the second keg. The head on this thing looks like whipped egg whites!
Just tapped my second keg out of a 10 gallon batch of this, which had a few weeks longer than the first keg to lager. The first keg at 3-4 weeks lagering was very nice and crisp. This one even more so. Even considering the old cheesy hops(Doh! Never again!)) I used contributing to a very off taste in the first keg, this has mellowed considerably, and is still one of the most balanced/refreshing lagers I have brewed thus far. Anyone have any suggestions what to add/take away from this recipe to get closer to a Czech Pilsner. I'm really wanting to avoid a decoction if possible. Would a step mash be needed for a Czech style? What does this add? If so, Should I follow the same step schedule? Add the Melanoiden Malt in the original recipe?
Cheers! Here's a pic from the second keg. The head on this thing looks like whipped egg whites!
OP
OP
Looks good.
As for turning this into a Czech Pils, that's a whole other beast. The water is different, the malt bill is different, hops and IBUs are different, and both the mash and boil are different. Without going into too much detail, start with very low ion water (usually just build up from RO), Mash a bit at 140, step up to 158 to finish. 2.5 hour boil, ~42 IBU, all Czech Saaz hops, the Urquell strain of lager yeast, and then you're close to my Czech Pils recipe. All Pils malt with a tad of either Melanoiden, Caramunich, or Aromatic. You can also use about 8-10% Vienna. It's up to you. Multiple kettle additions of Saaz, no whirlpool or dry hop. Really, though, this is topic for another thread. Here we're focused on German Pils.
As for turning this into a Czech Pils, that's a whole other beast. The water is different, the malt bill is different, hops and IBUs are different, and both the mash and boil are different. Without going into too much detail, start with very low ion water (usually just build up from RO), Mash a bit at 140, step up to 158 to finish. 2.5 hour boil, ~42 IBU, all Czech Saaz hops, the Urquell strain of lager yeast, and then you're close to my Czech Pils recipe. All Pils malt with a tad of either Melanoiden, Caramunich, or Aromatic. You can also use about 8-10% Vienna. It's up to you. Multiple kettle additions of Saaz, no whirlpool or dry hop. Really, though, this is topic for another thread. Here we're focused on German Pils.
OP
OP
Oh, no worries, bud. I'd be happy help you with a Czech Pils if you want to PM me or start a new thread.
GrowlerMonkey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 5
Looks like a solid recipe! I'll be brewing this up Wednesday night along with a Vienna lager. I also wouldn't mind help putting together a nice Czech pils recipe. Sounds like you know what you're doing!
OP
OP
Hope your brew day goes well. I'm drinking a pint of this Pils as I brew today
I'd be glad to help you with a Czech Pils. PM me or start a thread in the recipes/ingredients section and we'll see what we can do.
part16john
Well-Known Member
Great simple recipe, my first step mash on electric system, used brulosophy lager method.
OP
OP
Looks good
GrowlerMonkey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 5
So I've had this in the kegerator for a little over 2 months now, and it is phenomenal! I'm having a hard time deciding whether I like Russian Rivers STS Pils more or this (which is saying a lot) I'm thinking of doing it again soon, but I've got a question
.do you think this would benefit at all from a floor malted Pilsner with just a basic step mash? And if so, what mash schedule would you go with? Thanks for all the great Pils/Lager recipes you've posted, I'm quickly going through them all!
Cheers!
Cheers!
OP
OP
Great! I'm glad it turned out well for you. I've never had RR Pils before, but I buy every single American made Pilsner I see and always compare it mine. Of course I'm biased, but myself, friends, and brew club members always prefer mine. There are, however, some German made Pilsners that I prefer over mine.
I used to buy undermodified floor malted continental Pils malt and used that for my German Pilsners, Czech Pilsners, Kölsch, Helles, etc. It was very good. I can't say it was better without sampling it side by side with recipes using fully modified Pils malts, though.
If you want to use undermodified (in some cases floor malted) Pils malt for this recipe, I'd start with a 15 minute step at 113F, then (rather slowly) step up to the 140, 150, 158, 168 (MO) as per my graph in the original recipe. You can skip the 158 step, but I feel that it gives just a bit more dextrinous complexity. Either way, you'll have a good mash schedule.
You're welcome! It's good to see another fan of the simple, yet extraordinary, light lagers/hybrids! I just put my latest batch of this Ger Pils on tap yesterday - always good to have something like this on tap!
Cheers,
TB
part16john
Well-Known Member
Took 1st place in category in KY state fair with wyeast pilsen yeast and I didn't use melanoiden malt. One of my favorite brews.
Finished my keg of this about 10 minutes ago. Made as per recipe without melanoiden but subbed with Pacifica hops which is a Hallertau derivative - can't get Hallertau in NZ. Absolutely delicious and will rebrew next winter with no changes.
OP
OP
I've gone through over 20 gallons of this beer so far this summer, and brewing up another batch this Thursday. We just can't get enough
I just brewed a batch this weekend. It is my first lager and probably the closest I have followed a recipe so far. I used distilled water with some calcium chloride to stay close with the water profile, and I also discovered that my well water has high mineral content.
I finally have the ability to control temp during fermentation, and it is bubbling away happily at 50 degrees right now. I will bump it up in a few days. Brew day was pretty smooth. I am going to have a hard time being patient with this one!
I finally have the ability to control temp during fermentation, and it is bubbling away happily at 50 degrees right now. I will bump it up in a few days. Brew day was pretty smooth. I am going to have a hard time being patient with this one!
So I am lagering this beer now. I took my final gravity reading and ended up with a much bigger beer than I had planned.
I usually do a single infusion mash, but I followed the step mash in the recipe and ended up with much better efficiency than usual. Since I had better efficiency, I ended up with a 1.061 OG and a 1.008 FG, which means a 6.9% beer. Guess it's an imperial pils now...so much for sticking to the recipe!
I usually do a single infusion mash, but I followed the step mash in the recipe and ended up with much better efficiency than usual. Since I had better efficiency, I ended up with a 1.061 OG and a 1.008 FG, which means a 6.9% beer. Guess it's an imperial pils now...so much for sticking to the recipe!
OP
OP
That's OK. Did you check pre-boil gravity? Adjust bittering hops appropriately? Don't worry if you didn't; you'll have less bitterness than targeted, but it should still be plenty drinkable.
Now you can use less malt to get the proper OG next time. Always nice to save a few bucks!
I don't check pre-boil gravity because I don't know how it should compare to my desired OG.
I have a pretty consistently terrible brewhouse efficiency (58-60%) so I bump up the grain bill to account for that.
I have been trying to improve my efficiency, and clearly the step mash is more effective than other things I have tried. I will probably use it more often!
I have a pretty consistently terrible brewhouse efficiency (58-60%) so I bump up the grain bill to account for that.
I have been trying to improve my efficiency, and clearly the step mash is more effective than other things I have tried. I will probably use it more often!
OP
OP
Pre-boil specific gravity points = (Post-boil volume * Post-boil gravity points) / Pre-boil volume
Using this formula, you can fairly accurately predict what your post-boil OG will be if you know your post-boil volume (should be consistent from batch to batch).
In addition to step mashing, paying attention to mash pH, a nice long slow sparge, proper malt crush, and relatively thick mash thickness can help increase your efficiency. There are lots of threads on HBT to help you with efficiency issues, too.
Best of luck!
I think mash pH may have been a problem as well. I was talking to a local Brewer who uses our same water source and he mentioned a need for pH adjustment because our water has a high pH. I started with distilled for this brew because of the style, so that may have also been a factor.
OP
OP
The pH of your water has less to do with it than the alkalinity of your water. Water high in alkalinity will result in a higher mash pH. When starting with distilled water, I'd add a couple grams of calcium chloride and gypsum. With the acidulated malt, you should have a mash pH somewhere in the target zone (5.2-5.6)
I suggest using any one of the many free water chemistry calculators out there to help you reach your target pH. With little extra effort, you can get better efficiency and consistency.
Hope this helps,
TB
Tiber, I brewed this beer about 3 weeks ago. Was the first time that I attempted to correct my water and used the profile that I asked for your feedback on. I just cracked the keg last night and I was BLOWN AWAY. The beer has a lovely balance of hop and malt but a nice hop nose. This i the best beer I have made thus far and thank you very much for the recipe. This will always be in my house.
OP
OP
Glad it worked out for you. This beer is on tap at my house just about every day of the year.Cheers!
OP
OP
The amount of salt additions will depend on the volume of water being treated. You can use any one of the various free water calculators to help you reach the water profile that I suggest in the original recipe on page 1. This water calculator from Brewer's Friend is pretty easy to use, and a good place to start. Simply enter the volume of water you wish to treat, then enter your target ion levels. From there you can change the amounts of different salts to add to your water to reach the desired profile.
Ok thank you, I check the calc you provided and for 16 gal of Spring water it says zero for additions? but -25 on HCO3. But shows no additons needed? using 100% bottled spring water
Ok, I found the water report for the spring water and it looks pretty good.
for some reason my OG came in quite low 1.35, not sure what happened there. will try to boil off some more... I did have a bit of excess water since I do eBIAB and have some losses there... but the others beers I have done have all came out right on or higher. I did do a step mash of 145 for 20 then 158 for 30 then 170 for 10. Thats really the only change I can think of...
View attachment Morganton-Spring-FP-Qtr-1-2014.pdf
Ok, I found the water report for the spring water and it looks pretty good.
for some reason my OG came in quite low
1.35, not sure what happened there. will try to boil off some more... I did have a bit of excess water since I do eBIAB and have some losses there... but the others beers I have done have all came out right on or higher. I did do a step mash of 145 for 20 then 158 for 30 then 170 for 10. Thats really the only change I can think of...View attachment Morganton-Spring-FP-Qtr-1-2014.pdf
OP
OP
Note that the water calculator that I linked to doesn't tell you how much of each salt to add. You have to enter in amounts to reach the calculated total ppm of your desired profile.
I'd also suggest using a complete recipe calculator to estimate your mash pH based on your malts, water profile, and acid(s) in the mash. I typically have to add some acid (I use either Lactic of Phosphoric) to bring the mash pH down to where I want it. This will also help with your extract efficiency.
I'd also suggest using a complete recipe calculator to estimate your mash pH based on your malts, water profile, and acid(s) in the mash. I typically have to add some acid (I use either Lactic of Phosphoric) to bring the mash pH down to where I want it. This will also help with your extract efficiency.
brewdorg
Member
Brewed this up today, my first lager. 10L batch, single step mash @ 64ºC and now fermenting at 10ºC. Will report back with taste notes in 6+ weeks! Thanks for the recipe.
brew703
Well-Known Member
Planning on brewing in a couple weeks. What would be an alternate bittering hop? Would magnum be a good choice?
OP
OP
I like bittering with German Magnum for its low cohumulone content and high alpha, so that'd work just fine for a Pils.
brewdorg
Member
So I've just polished off the last bottle of this batch. I have to say, I really really liked it and it was a great first venture into lager brewing. If I were to brew again, I think I would add the melanoidin malt though. The finished beer was incredibly crisp and clean but I felt it needed just a touch more sweetness and colour. I definitely think it would benefit from kegging too over bottle conditioning as the carbonation was important in the final impression (I managed to get it right thankfully).
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
OP, did you use 1 pack of yeast or two with the 1gal starter?
OP
OP
Crisp and clean is the German way, but as a homebrewer, you can do it however you want. I felt that my batches with the melanoidin did not taste as authentic when compared to German imports, but it wasn't a bad beer by any means!
OP
OP
I believe I pitched one vial into the starter. I'd use a yeast starter calculator to find out your necessary volumes for your starter, since it will vary with the little details.
brew703
Well-Known Member
Brewing this one on Saturday. Looking forward to see how it turns out. Using 34/70 instead of liquid.
Surfanarchist
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 2
I need to try this one.
First time brewing a lager! I stumbled upon this thread and it seemed to be the most straight forward for a first timer so I gave it a shot. I use Brewer's Friend for all of my recipes so I dropped this into my recipe builder and for 11 Gallons it called for 20lbs of Pilsner malt and I also ended up adding in 1lb of Melanoidin. I also used WLP800 for my yeast and stepped up one pack for 24hrs and just pitch another pack after brewing to get my cell count up. All went well but my efficiency was way high I assume because of the 90 min mash and my boil off increased too, probably because it was way warmer than the last time I brewed... Anyway I ended up with about 10 Gal of Imperial Pilsner sitting right around 7.2%. My sample from the other day was very tasty and I'm only less than 2 weeks in! Stepping up the temp now to 66 for the diacetyl rest for the next two weeks. Can't wait to get this baby in kegs! Cheers and thanks for the recipe!
OP
OP
A pound of melanoidin? That's quite a bit! I don't use any melanoidin for German Pils anymore, but it can fit for a Czech Pils. Speaking of, you used Czech Pils yeast for this, so what you'll have is an imperial Czech Pils of sorts. Regardless, let us know what you think when it's finished!
Did you target the water profile from the recipe, too?
Last edited:
I've never used Melanoidin before but I misread the recipe and a buddy told me to try it out since he used it in his pilsner. I actually really like the taste of it so far... We shall see how it ends up though! As for the WLP800... That was the only available yeast at my LHBS. I also didn't know it was Czech... But I love all Pilsners so that's OK!
As for water we just used tap water. I still need to get a test done for my local water supply since I just moved to NC 8 months ago. The water is still pretty soft though and quite similar to CT.
As for water we just used tap water. I still need to get a test done for my local water supply since I just moved to NC 8 months ago. The water is still pretty soft though and quite similar to CT.
