AG brew day in less than 3 hours... possible?

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badmajon

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My goal is to complete an AG brew in 3 hours, start to finish. 1 hour mash, 1 hour boil.

It's the other parts that seem to get me... My last AG brewday was 5 hours. Perfect for a relaxing afternoon, but less than relaxing when you've got kids screaming in the house etc etc.

Does anyone accomplish this? What are your steps? For some reason, my brew days just take a long time, I don't even know what I spend all my time doing!
 
I think 3.5 hours is more reasonable for me. I've done it, with a simple batch sparge. If you heat water, mash in, then heat the sparge water during the mash, you can probably do it in a tad bit over three hours. You could also increase the amount of grain you're using and do a no-sparge method if you were really pressed for time.

I've found that heating up the sparge water during the mash then draining the runnings is pretty quick. Then adding one round of sparge water, stirring like a crazy person and then draining takes less than 10 minutes. I've started the boil kettle onto the flame while doing the batch sparge. That way it comes to a boil faster.

You can mash less than an hour, if you check for conversion- I've had conversion in as little as 40 minutes when I checked! It depends on mash temperature, really, but many times a warmer temperature mash (153 or higher) will be converted within 45 minutes or less.
 
The only way I can see it being possible is to either use an on-demand water heater or use a timer and temp controller to pre-heat all the water you'll need. Also factor in the time it takes to chill wort which is harder in the summer.
 
I haven't done it in 3. 4 I can do. I hope that doesn't include cleanup.

  • Cut down mash time to 45m
  • cut down boil to 45m
  • batch sparge
  • get the most efficient chiller you can get (imo, plate chiller)
  • night before: pre-measure hops, mill grain, have brewsheet printed, fill HLT with strike water; basically stage everything

I find that the difference between my ideal time and actual is spent screwing around with the sparge. I don't have problems there, but I tend to lose at least a half hour there.
 
I can easily heat 2.5-3 gallons (strike water) of water to +/- 165 degrees in 15 minutes. Dough in and mash while heating sparge water.

15 min preheat,1 hour mash, 10 minute sparge with 175 degree water, 15 minutes to boil, 1 hour boil, Clean up and sanitize during the boil, +/-15 minutes to chill, 1 minute of oxygen and pitch.

You have to be on your A game, but it can be done.

Bull
 
My best time was just under 4 hours. One of the things I typically do is pre-boil my water the night before, and when it cools down to about 190° I put it in my tun. It still needs to be reheated some the next day, but not as much as tap water.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, I am in the process of working out a Turbo All Grain step by step process and when I get it figured out, I'll post here to help all the other stressed out dads (or those that just want to get it over with). I do enjoy brewing and like I said, if the time is mine, a 5 hour brew day is fine.

I looked at my logs and I see one of my major bottlenecks is chilling and areation. I use a counterflow chiller that is 3/8" inside- it doesn't clog much (that's why I chose it over a plate chiller) but it takes forever to actually run wort through it, like 30 minutes for 10 gallons. Oxygenation takes a while too, I use the aquarium pump method which takes about 15 minutes (and that's kinda low) for each fermentor (I use two brew pails).

Would switching to a plate chiller speed my process?

I could try to make a sanke fermentor, and buy a pure oxygen setup. That would cut out the need to areate twice (two buckets) and areation would be like, 5 minutes.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, I am in the process of working out a Turbo All Grain step by step process and when I get it figured out, I'll post here to help all the other stressed out dads (or those that just want to get it over with). I do enjoy brewing and like I said, if the time is mine, a 5 hour brew day is fine.

I looked at my logs and I see one of my major bottlenecks is chilling and areation. I use a counterflow chiller that is 3/8" inside- it doesn't clog much (that's why I chose it over a plate chiller) but it takes forever to actually run wort through it, like 30 minutes for 10 gallons. Oxygenation takes a while too, I use the aquarium pump method which takes about 15 minutes (and that's kinda low) for each fermentor (I use two brew pails).

Would switching to a plate chiller speed my process?

I could try to make a sanke fermentor, and buy a pure oxygen setup. That would cut out the need to areate twice (two buckets) and areation would be like, 5 minutes.

For chilling, a cheaper set up might be a a prechiller. Prechiller in an icebath, through the CFC. If you can splash/aerate coming out of the chiller, that would be enough. I've seen some venturi type pipes coming out of the chiller into the fermenter, and that aerates as well as (or better than) an aquarium pump. Then you could chill and aerate in one quick step.

My tapwater is cold, so chilling is fast for me, but for warmer tap water folks, even a plate chiller won't be that helpful.
 
I think if I could streamline the cleanup process alone, I could probably reduce my brewday significantly. I feel like that's where my time loss occurs and it makes the day feel disjointed. Any tips from those who have streamlined it? Mash tun is a 10 gal cooler, IC, no pump.
 
I think if I could streamline the cleanup process alone, I could probably reduce my brewday significantly. I feel like that's where my time loss occurs and it makes the day feel disjointed. Any tips from those who have streamlined it? Mash tun is a 10 gal cooler, IC, no pump.

Aside from what you learned from your mom ("Clean as you go"), not really.

But if you clean your MLT during the boil, rinse the IC immediately after using (no need to scrub that), all you'll have left to clean is your BK. If you transfer to the fermenter and then rinse off the BK, it'll take less than 5 minutes to clean that.
 
Bobby_M said:
The only way I can see it being possible is to either use an on-demand water heater or use a timer and temp controller to pre-heat all the water you'll need. Also factor in the time it takes to chill wort which is harder in the summer.

I've only done 4 all grain batches ranging from 5-6.5 gallon into fermentors. I use an instant hot water heater pre heating for strike and initially heating the heat exchanger. I fly sparge with the water in the heat exchanger I used to mash out. So my sparge water is ready imeadiatlly after mash out. I do a 60 min mash and 75-90 min boil. I start adding heat to the BK as soon as I get about two gallons in the BK. I have an app on my iPad that has several timers I use throughout the brew day and I start one at the very beginning and has not gone over 4.25 hours including cleaning. I contribute this to the instant hot water heater and using ice in the heat exchanger during cool (no tap water). I also clean the mash tun during the boil and prep the fermentors. After the boil all I have left to clean is the BK and I add StarSan to the leftover ice water in the HLT and circulate through both pumps and heat exchanger. Leave it sit overnight and drain the next day.
 
I've only done 4 all grain batches ranging from 5-6.5 gallon into fermentors. I use an instant hot water heater pre heating for strike and initially heating the heat exchanger. I fly sparge with the water in the heat exchanger I used to mash out. So my sparge water is ready imeadiatlly after mash out. I do a 60 min mash and 75-90 min boil. I start adding heat to the BK as soon as I get about two gallons in the BK. I have an app on my iPad that has several timers I use throughout the brew day and I start one at the very beginning and has not gone over 4.25 hours including cleaning. I contribute this to the instant hot water heater and using ice in the heat exchanger during cool (no tap water). I also clean the mash tun during the boil and prep the fermentors. After the boil all I have left to clean is the BK and I add StarSan to the leftover ice water in the HLT and circulate through both pumps and heat exchanger. Leave it sit overnight and drain the next day.

How hot will your water heater go? What kind is it?
 
EdWort said:
How hot will your water heater go? What kind is it?

It's a Rinnai C85 commercial propane tankless hot water heater. It goes to 185 degrees. Theoretically you could use it to sparge or for strike "on demand". It automatically regulates the flow to get to the desired temp. I set it right below desired temp and then heat the rest of the way on my brew rig. I lucked out on getting this off Craigslist brand new for $300.00 with two controllers. Search " MaxOut brew station " in the DIY forum and I have more details and pictures of how I have it set up. Easily shaves 1 hour off the brew day.
 
For chilling, a cheaper set up might be a a prechiller. Prechiller in an icebath, through the CFC. If you can splash/aerate coming out of the chiller, that would be enough. I've seen some venturi type pipes coming out of the chiller into the fermenter, and that aerates as well as (or better than) an aquarium pump. Then you could chill and aerate in one quick step.

My tapwater is cold, so chilling is fast for me, but for warmer tap water folks, even a plate chiller won't be that helpful.

I use a post reverse immersion chiller. It's an extra 10 ft of copper in which the beer runs, and it's dunked in a 5-gallon bucket full of ice water.

M_C
 
with weighing,milling cleaning 3 hour is out. I'd say 4-4.5 hours batch sparging and racking a brew over, harvesting your yeast cake.
 
I'm averaging about 4 hours per brew even though the ground water is about 88 degrees right now. I'm just now getting my process dialed in to where it's instinctive. I'm hoping for 3.5 to maybe even 3 hour sessions this fall.
 
I use a post reverse immersion chiller. It's an extra 10 ft of copper in which the beer runs, and it's dunked in a 5-gallon bucket full of ice water.

M_C

That's exactly what I do... 10 feet of copper in an ice bath after the CF chiller.
 
I take 4.5-5 hours on my brew days. I also do a 2 part batch sparge, stir them for about 5 minutes, and let them rest for about 15. I could probably cut some time down on that, but in total I'd say it breaks down into:

Heat strike water - 20 min
Mash - 60 min
Sparge - 45 min
Boil - 90 min
Cool - 30 min
Misc - 30 min

That doesn't include cleaning up, which I do after sitting down and having a beer, or measuring out grain, hops, and salts, which I do the night before.
 
I do 10 gallon batches in 4 to 4 1/2 hours, including grain milling and cleanup. This is with a full 1 hour mash, fly sparge, and 1 hour boil. I just got a new chiller, but last night I ran a batch with a 1 1/2 hour mash, and still managed to hit about 4:40 total batch time, so the new chiller helps.

A few of the time-savers that I've picked up are weighing and milling my grain while the strike water heats, and making sure that I've got my boil kettle fired up during the entire sparge, so that I reach boil almost immediately post-sparge.

Having a plate chiller or CFC is definitely helpful. I just did my first batch with a Chillus Convolutus rather than my old homemade CFC last night, and I definitely think it's a more efficient and faster chiller. I typically recirculate the wort while running hose water through the chiller to get the boil down to ~100 degrees, then run ice water through the chiller as I transfer the wort to the fermenter. The Chillus Convolutus helped quite a bit, as I was able to chill from 100 to a pitching temp of 58 degrees using far less ice than I normally use, so I think I can potentially start at 120 or 130 degrees in the kettle next time...

I could try to make a sanke fermentor, and buy a pure oxygen setup. That would cut out the need to areate twice (two buckets) and areation would be like, 5 minutes.

I use a Sanke as a fermenter with the kit from Brewer's Hardware. Towards the end of the boil I put some water in the Sanke and boil it on a spare burner to sterilize, and it's ready to go when my wort is cool enough to pump in.
 
No chill. :D

Knocked at least an hour off my brew day (between chilling, not having to deal with yeast on brew day, and clean up). Allows me to stack up a few cubes of wort to pitch whenever I get around to it. I'm thinking about brewing up a bunch while the weather is nice and I can then ferment as needed over the winter.

Those boys in Oz are on to something......
 
I think it can be done. It used to take me an hour to go from mash temperatures to boiling, but I got a Bayou Classic Banjo Cooker and now it only takes 18 minutes.

I haven't done this yet, but it I'm pretty sure that it can be done:

20 minutes - heat water to strike temp.
60 minute - mash
5 minutes - lauter
20 minutes - heat to boil
60 minutes - boil
5 minute - 'no chill'. Pour wort into bucket, put on lid and airlock. Store bucket.
Pitch yeast the next day.
---------------------
2 hours and 50 minutes.
 
My Lauter's always seem to take longer than I expect.


I agree. If you only take 5 minutes to drain 1st runnings and also the sparge water, that is super quick.

I sure can't do it in under 15 minutes. 10 min rest for sparge water is usually recommended by most here on the forum.

I think 4 hours could be the right time for me, if I beat that I'm happy.

:rockin:
 
anyone who isn't pitching yeast that day are not qualified to account that as a brewing session. If you add the extra time it takes to sanitize everything the next day or whenever and pitch. You also need to factor in how long it took the wort to get to pitching temperature. Add those factors in then come up with the hour figures

If you are weighing your grist and milling the same day, chilling and pitching your yeast and clean up, there is no way 3 hours is conceivable for five gallons or more of all grain brewing
 
I would typically always hit about 3 hours but it takes me a long time to bring the beer to boil, and awhile to cool it down now that it's summer. I guess typically this is what I'm looking at:

Heat up mash water: 20min
Mash and heat up sparge water: 60min
Two rounds of batch sparge: 25min
Bring to boil: 30min or so
Boil: 60min
Cool down: 30min (I can drop it to about 105F real quick, but takes awhile to get to pitching temp)
Misc. time: 20min

ABOUT 4 to 4.5hrs is my typical brew day.
 
If you are weighing your grist and milling the same day, chilling and pitching your yeast and clean up, there is no way 3 hours is conceivable for five gallons or more of all grain brewing

I get VERY close to 3 hours when I need to. My personal best was 3 hours and 25 min, completely finished other than putting away all my equipment (it has to dry after all).

Step by step:

1. Set up everything.
2. start heating strike water
3. weigh and crush grain
4. start mash
5. start cleaning
6. stir mash, then heat sparge water.
7. run off, sparge, runoff, take reading, start boil. ***
8. weigh hops
9. clean mash tun, dump grains

When boil is complete:
1. set up chilling (two buckets of tap water, third bucket is ice water running through immersion chiller with pump)
2. clean everything else.
3. pour into fermentor, take reading, pitch.
4. done

*** I am soon going to start using a second pot for my sparge water so that I can run-off right into my boiling pot and begin my boil while I'm sparging. I think this will cut about 10 more minutes off when I need to save time.

Trust me, it's doable, but any less than 3 hours and you have to cut mash/boil times, which I won't do. I rarely try to go this fast, but sometimes I brew after work and I have to so I can be done by the time my daughter is going to bed. I brew alone btw, which I've learned actually SAVES time.

EDIT: wanted to add that my friend modified my Bayou burner so that the pot sits only about 1.5 inches off the flames. This not only greatly cut down my time to temperature, but also extended my propane tanks to about 6 batches per.
 
I get VERY close to 3 hours when I need to. My personal best was 3 hours and 25 min, completely finished other than putting away all my equipment (it has to dry after all).

Step by step:

1. Set up everything.
2. start heating strike water
3. weigh and crush grain
4. start mash
5. start cleaning
6. stir mash, then heat sparge water.
7. run off, sparge, runoff, take reading, start boil. ***
8. weigh hops
9. clean mash tun, dump grains

When boil is complete:
1. set up chilling (two buckets of tap water, third bucket is ice water running through immersion chiller with pump)
2. clean everything else.
3. pour into fermentor, take reading, pitch.
4. done

*** I am soon going to start using a second pot for my sparge water so that I can run-off right into my boiling pot and begin my boil while I'm sparging. I think this will cut about 10 more minutes off when I need to save time.

Trust me, it's doable, but any less than 3 hours and you have to cut mash/boil times, which I won't do. I rarely try to go this fast, but sometimes I brew after work and I have to so I can be done by the time my daughter is going to bed. I brew alone btw, which I've learned actually SAVES time.

EDIT: wanted to add that my friend modified my Bayou burner so that the pot sits only about 1.5 inches off the flames. This not only greatly cut down my time to temperature, but also extended my propane tanks to about 6 batches per.

what about cleaning the boiler, rinsing and drying the buckets and immersion chiller and draining the hoses

I find that just cleaning the boiler and immersion chiller properly then drying, takes a good fifteen minutes. the hops and scum in the boiler and valve takes time to clean right.
 
what about cleaning the boiler, rinsing and drying the buckets and immersion chiller and draining the hoses

I find that just cleaning the boiler and immersion chiller properly then drying, takes a good fifteen minutes. the hops and scum in the boiler and valve takes time to clean right.

Silly, you ain't supposed to count that time. It's routine maintenance. Anybody that claims they can brew from strike to proper cleanup in less than 4 hours is just fooling themselves. And I don't sparge.
 
I don't count the drying, thats the only thing I leave till the next day. I like to let everything air dry because when I used to do it myself I always missed spots. But, considering everything is stacked in my "beer room" to dry, it could technically be used the next day in place, so its not like leaving your wort to cool overnight or anything.

I have an un-used, standup shower on my first floor where I clean everything and get my water. Cleaning is my quickest step, especially since I dump my grains into a woods area at the back of a cemetery.
 
what about cleaning the boiler, rinsing and drying the buckets and immersion chiller and draining the hoses

Ooops... you're right, reverse the last two steps, I didn't catch that. I clean the boiler and immersion chiller after the pitch obviously. My chilling is down to one bucket at the end, so I rinse the other two while I'm waiting for that to finish. At the end I have one bucket to dump and put in its drying spot, then a pot and chiller to clean, and that's it.
 
anyone who isn't pitching yeast that day are not qualified to account that as a brewing session. If you add the extra time it takes to sanitize everything the next day or whenever and pitch. You also need to factor in how long it took the wort to get to pitching temperature.

It takes about 3 minutes to measure the gravity and pour in the yeast the next day.

If you want to count the time that I am sleeping as part of a brewing session, then so be it, but why stop there? Let's start the clock when I heat up the water for my starters.

According to OLDBREW, My brew sessions are FIVE DAYS LONG!!!!
 
It takes about 3 minutes to measure the gravity and pour in the yeast the next day.

If you want to count the time that I am sleeping as part of a brewing session, then so be it, but why stop there? Let's start the clock when I heat up the water for my starters.

According to OLDBREW, My brew sessions are FIVE DAYS LONG!!!!

Then I guess my "brew day" can actually be weeks. :p
 
Equipment setup, weighing , milling, 60 min mash, fly sparge, 60 min boil, chilling , pitch yeast, cleanup(I clean as I go as well)....5 hrs. Used to be 6 or 6.5. I try to always have the next step either in progress or ready to go immediately. I just don't see 3 hours as possible . 4.5 maybe. But that's my setup and my process, and I don't like to rush, it just leads to mistakes.
 
I usually decide to brew sometime in the morning, and then don't finish until dinner time.

But, I am always developing a new recipe, so there is an hour or so on the computer, running down to the freezer and then into the grain closet to see what I have on hand. Usually then it's a slight modification to the recipe, or, in the worst case, a trip to the local homebrew shop.

Then it's get the equipment out of the closet (one room), the hops out of the freezer bag (a second room), getting my mash water on (a third room), and setting up the burner and boil kettle outside (a 4th location!). Out to the garage(5th location) to grind the grains, back inside to check on the mash water, collecting a weighing the water adjustments, the mash, a slow sparge (think I've fixed that one), boil, 10 hop additions, carrying the pot upstairs to hook up the IC chiller and cool in the bathtub(6th location) and, well, you get the picture. I envy you people that have a dedicated location to do all your brew tasks, but we have to brew in the home we have.

I think if you really add all the time spent here researching recipes and such, all the cleaning, prep, ordering, growing hops, grinding grain, toasting grain, prepping yeast, etc., it's, well, a bunch of time, no matter how you cut it. But it's a hobby, and the rewards are great beer. Now on to doing all my prep in advance so I too can manage a 3-4 hour brew day.....
 
Another one for "No Chill". I just turn the burner off at the end of the boil, put the lid on the pot and go on with my day. Pretty sure the 1-3 gallons of star san in the fermenter doesn't lose sanatizing capability overnight. Next morning, I dip the airlock in the bucket, dump the sanatizer into my swamp cooler, pour the beer in violently, pitch the yeast.

After that all I have to do is hose out the pot and funnel I pour my wort through.

No chillers to unclog/drain/clean/store. No kettle valves to clean hop scum out of. No wasting gallons upon gallons of chiller water.

It cuts down on A LOT
 
Does anyone do a single batch sparge instead of a double? I have a new (only 2 batches so far) 3 vessel single tier with 1 pump. For 5 gallon batches I could easily drain my mash to the boil kettle and then do 1 sparge. I always did 2 in the past and I would love to cut one out to save time. Anyone??
 
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