BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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drawdy10: lots of people think lots of things about the process without really having any real data to back them up. I have not noticed any adverse effects from squeezing the bag or from squeezing a bag of whole hops during the boil or dry hopping. You will hear many say both are bad ideas. Tannins from the grains, grassiness from the hops. I haven't seen any evidence that either one is true. I'm wondering whether they have had this outcome from other problems like overheating their mash or old hops or something else and then have attributed it to squeezing.
ClemTiger0408
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Could I do something like ALWAYS using 7.5 gallons and if I come up a little short pre-boil could I add a little more water? Would this mess anything up?
You could. You don't always have to use all your mash water. I've started using less when needed for pH control.
fuzzy2133
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You will have a slight increase in IBU's (1IBU if you are lucky or 2 IBU's worst case and probably not even noticeable in taste) and your pre-boil gravity will be lower. This will all depend on how much water you dilute with. A 1/2 gallon probably will not make a huge effect.
This has some good info on volumes, including actual grain absorption vs apparent absorption:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/take-the-guessing-out-of-efficiency.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/take-the-guessing-out-of-efficiency-part-2.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/take-the-guessing-out-of-efficiency.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/take-the-guessing-out-of-efficiency-part-2.html
Noob question here - couldn't the 20 gallon pot be used for smaller batches (5 gal). Looking to get equipment to meet my current needs (5 Gal batches), with potential for larger brews (10 Gal) and smaller batches (1 or 2.5 gal).
A 20 gallon pot could be used for 5 gallon batches, but IMO it would be inconveniently large, and also more prone to heat loss due to greater surface area.
A 20 gallon is a big ass kettle for 5 gallon batches!
I would say that if your certain that you'll go to 10 gallon batches soon then consider it, otherwise it will just be more difficult. What is your heat source? A pot that size would be problematic if you were not using a propane burner.
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I was just in a home brew store yesterday and a guy was buying a pot. My only comment as I walked by was "go big". Whatever you think you will brew, you will want to brew something bigger, stronger, etc., very soon. I started w/5 gallon extract for two brews, went to BIAB, within a year I wanted to be brewing 10 gallon batches. I had three pots in the first 6mos. I use a keggle now and still have to batch sparge my bag. Of grain at the end of the mash to get my last few gallons in. If I brew a 1.08 or greater, I have to go to less than 10 gals. Go big!
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Not yet to propane burner but am looking to upgrade with biab. Also like thought of smaller batches so might consider getting a couple different kettle sizes. Currently have a 6.5gal for extract stove top batches.
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I would suggest a pot that is a minimum of 1.5 times as big as your batch. I'm doing 10 gallons in a 15.5 gallon keggle. I generally have to hold back a couple gallons for sparge (you could just add a couple gallons without sparging if you want to keep it simple). 20 gallons would accomodate 10 gallons of a big beer.
However, I would never try those sizes on a stove. I have a 8.5 gal pot for stove. I can brew 5 gallons in that. Your 6.5 would be fine for 3 gal batches. My 8.5 straddles two burners which makes it easier to use.
Hope that helps.
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Good thoughts, thanks. I heard 5 gallons is possible with sparge in 6.5 pot though it might be tight. Will weigh my pot options.
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Good thoughts, thanks. I heard 5 gallons is possible with sparge in 6.5 pot though it might be tight. Will weigh my pot options.
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This will be really tight. You need to decide how much water to start with so the added grains do not cause your pot to overflow, sparge to get as much volume as you dare before the boil starts, watch at hot break so you don't spill over, then add water as you boil off some so your final volume is correct going into the fermenter. I have trouble right at hot break with my 7.5 gallon pot because the hot break will easily exceed 1.5 gallons if I let it and that would spill over onto the wife's stovetop. Not a good situation.:cross:
A spray bottle of cold water will be pretty useful as you can spray the top of the hot break as it approaches the top of the pot and force it back down.
The_Bishop
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I'm doing 5-5.5 gallon batches BIAB with a 10.5 gallon pot. It works, but in retrospect I should have gotten a 15 gallon pot.
I'm also using an outdoor propane burner.
I'm also using an outdoor propane burner.
I do 5 -5.5 gal batches in an 11gal pot. It works up to about 13lbs of grain if you add all your water to start.
So, now if I approach or go over 13lbs of grain I mash with 6.5 - 7 gal of water then sparge with what I need to get my pre-boil volume. Sometimes I use this approach with less than 13lbs of grain because it ensures my pre-boil volume is correct. I have found that with some grain bills, mostly those with flaked grains, typical grain absorption calculations don't work for me. This approach has also allowed me to do an 8gal batch, only one but it worked out without a hitch.
So, now if I approach or go over 13lbs of grain I mash with 6.5 - 7 gal of water then sparge with what I need to get my pre-boil volume. Sometimes I use this approach with less than 13lbs of grain because it ensures my pre-boil volume is correct. I have found that with some grain bills, mostly those with flaked grains, typical grain absorption calculations don't work for me. This approach has also allowed me to do an 8gal batch, only one but it worked out without a hitch.
I have the same setup as you. Lately I've been mashing with 1 less gallon and using that to rinse the grains after the mash and my efficiency has jumped from 70% to 82% :rockin:
thebrewquest
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Thanks to this thread and an awesome LHBS owner, I brewed my 1st BIAB last night. I think I calculated correctly, and hit 76% brew house efficiency. All Looks like it went smooth, this'll be a long 6 weeks to try this beer.
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Brewit,
Can you go thru your process? I have a 15 gallon pot (to the tip top) and would LOVE to be able to do some 10 gallon batches.
I brewed 10 gallons of a 5%ABV Munich Helles Lager last weekend. I started with 12.5 gallons in the keggle (15.5 gallons). After the addition of 22lbs of grain that came up to around the 14 - 14.5 level. Then when I was done mashing (which I do in two bags to make it easier to lift out at the end), I mash out at 170F and then I pulled a bag and placed in pair of nesting buckets I made. The top one is drilled like a strainer. I added 1.25 gallons of 175F water and let it drain through squeezing out the extra. I then repeat that routine adding the sparge back to the pot. The pot can be coming to a boil while you are sparging. Start of boil is about 13 gallons.
With a bigger beer, for example a 7% IPA, I just hold back more water. Last months IPA was 27 lbs of malt, 12 gallons of mash water, 3.5 gallons of sparge water for a 13 gallon start of boil volume.
There is a great spreadsheet on the BIABbrewer.com website:
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=1eb26c712fce6d7a65fe81b2ca64c2e8
Hope that helps
That is PERFECT Brewitt! Thank you.
Question for anybody that's had trouble pinning down their efficiency. With doing a single grind at LHBS, add all water at mash time, do a 10min 170 degree sparge, I have gotten anywhere from 60% - 71% efficiency. This weekend I ordered from Brewmasters Warehouse, asked for a double milling of the grain, called and confirmed it was double milled, did an 80min mash, kept the grain in the water while bringing up to 170 and stirred the whole time until it got to 170. Covered and sparged for 10min. Ended up with 64% efficiency, this is for a Saison with a 10lb grain bill and 1lb of sugar.
I added the sugar with 10min left in the boil, so not part of the mash, and shouldn't have any bearing on my efficiency except that it might be skewing it because it does add to the OG.
I'm at a loss on figuring out to get my eff. more constant. I have a couple bigger beers I'd like to do in the coming months and really don't want to expect 9 - 10% ABV and end up with 7% since my eff. may end up being lower with larger grain bills.
I added the sugar with 10min left in the boil, so not part of the mash, and shouldn't have any bearing on my efficiency except that it might be skewing it because it does add to the OG.
I'm at a loss on figuring out to get my eff. more constant. I have a couple bigger beers I'd like to do in the coming months and really don't want to expect 9 - 10% ABV and end up with 7% since my eff. may end up being lower with larger grain bills.
If you want your efficiency to be really consistent, you need your own mill. As you noticed, even double milling isn't the entire answer when someone else sets the mill gap. Since you are on the BIAB thread, look at a Corona style mill like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000T3ML4G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
If you close the gap all the way so that the milling plates are grinding against each other your efficiency will be pretty high and pretty consistent too.:rockin:
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Corona style mill from discount tommy, a little cheaper with free ship...
http://www.discounttommy.com/p-189-...er-for-wheat-grains-or-use-as-a-nut-mill.aspx
http://www.discounttommy.com/p-189-...er-for-wheat-grains-or-use-as-a-nut-mill.aspx
Tried to do a Surly Abrasive IIPA Clone. Found the recipe on beer smith. Surly lists the ingredients on their website but no detailed info. Here is the info Surly provides;
"STYLE: Double Oat IPA
MALT: 2-Row, Golden Promise, Oats, Lite Crystal
SUGAR: Brewers Crystals
HOPS: Warrior, Citra
YEAST: English Ale
OG: 19.5° Plato
ABV: 9% v/v
COLOR: 8 ºSRM
IBU: 120ish"
The Clone recipe on beer smith calls for:
7 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
5 lbs Golden Promise (2.8 SRM) Grain 2
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4
1.0 oz Warrior [16.7%] - Boil 60 min Hops 5
0.5 oz Apollo [13.9%] - Boil 60 min Hops 6
12.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for 10 min] (0.0 SRM) Grain 7
1.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Boil 10 min Hops 8
1.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Boil 5 min Hops 9
2.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Steep 20 min Hops 10
1 pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast 11
3.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Dry Hop 7 days.
So I ended doing a couple things different. My local HBS was all out of Flaked oats. So instead I ended up using 1lb of flaked barley and 1/2lb of malted oats. I used 2 Oz of Warrior hops 1oz as the 60min and 1oz 45min addition. then used 5 Oz of Citra hops 1oz @ 30,15,10,5,and 1min additions. And will use 3oz Citra for dry hopping. Also Instead of the Whitelabs Dry english ale yeast I used Wyeast 1272 American Ale II. 3 packs and a 1.5L starter. Not sure how much these changes are going to effect the beer. I had a post boil OG of 1.078. The Wyeast has taken off and has produced the most krassuen and most vigorous fermentation I have seen yet. I can smell Citra being pushed out my airlock :cross:
"STYLE: Double Oat IPA
MALT: 2-Row, Golden Promise, Oats, Lite Crystal
SUGAR: Brewers Crystals
HOPS: Warrior, Citra
YEAST: English Ale
OG: 19.5° Plato
ABV: 9% v/v
COLOR: 8 ºSRM
IBU: 120ish"
The Clone recipe on beer smith calls for:
7 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
5 lbs Golden Promise (2.8 SRM) Grain 2
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4
1.0 oz Warrior [16.7%] - Boil 60 min Hops 5
0.5 oz Apollo [13.9%] - Boil 60 min Hops 6
12.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for 10 min] (0.0 SRM) Grain 7
1.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Boil 10 min Hops 8
1.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Boil 5 min Hops 9
2.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Steep 20 min Hops 10
1 pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast 11
3.0 oz Citra [14.1%] - Dry Hop 7 days.
So I ended doing a couple things different. My local HBS was all out of Flaked oats. So instead I ended up using 1lb of flaked barley and 1/2lb of malted oats. I used 2 Oz of Warrior hops 1oz as the 60min and 1oz 45min addition. then used 5 Oz of Citra hops 1oz @ 30,15,10,5,and 1min additions. And will use 3oz Citra for dry hopping. Also Instead of the Whitelabs Dry english ale yeast I used Wyeast 1272 American Ale II. 3 packs and a 1.5L starter. Not sure how much these changes are going to effect the beer. I had a post boil OG of 1.078. The Wyeast has taken off and has produced the most krassuen and most vigorous fermentation I have seen yet. I can smell Citra being pushed out my airlock :cross:
Hey Guys. Was hoping to do my first BIAB this weekend, but I'm still a bit confused about how much water I need to use. I'm doing a 2.5 gallon batch since all I have is a 5 gallon kettle. I found a recipe for a porter, converted it to 2.5 in beersmith, and it seems it's giving me about 6.94 pounds of grains. With a 60 minute boil, BIABcalculator.com is saying I need 4.06 gallons of water. Does this seem correct? I seem to be getting different numbers on beersmith.
Sorry to say, but your total water is just a guess without some experience knowing how much you will boil off etc etc
4 gallons seems reasonable assuming you will lose a gallon to boil off, and a half gallon to grain absorption.
RDWHAHB, go for it, learn and make adjustments moving forward.
Cheers!
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4 gallons seems reasonable assuming you will lose a gallon to boil off, and a half gallon to grain absorption.
RDWHAHB, go for it, learn and make adjustments moving forward.
Cheers!
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Delete double post
The amount of grains you need will depend on your brewhouse efficiency which will depend on how well it is milled. With my Corona mill set tight for a really fine grind I would likely need only about 5 lbs of grain and can start with 3.75 gallons of water. With that much water in a 5 gallon pot, when I add the grains I'm pretty close to the top. With your additional amount of grains I would start with close to 3.25 gallons and plan to sparge a bit to get to your preboil volume. Any more than that and your pot will spill over.
When the mash is over and you have squeezed out all the wort you can from the bag of grains, estimate how much you have collected and then sparge to bring the total amount up to about 3.75 gallons. With that much wort in the pot you will have to watch carefully or you will spill the hot break over the top of the pot too. You can turn the heat down, scoop out the hot break, or use a spray bottle of water to keep the hot break under control. I've heard that Whirlfloc will keep the foam under control but I've never tried it.
Whirfloc is a kettle coagulant to floc the proteins similar to Irish moss, I think RM-MN is referring to ferm cap S, an anti foam agent that will help with boil overs.
Sorry to nit pic, all else spot on!!!
Cheers!
Brewnewb1 You should really try to use BIABscus excel sheet/calc from biabrewer.info
But bc it's your 1st biab batch: do a full volume mash (mash&sparge water combined). So, shoot for water:grist ratio, at least 1.50 qts/ lbs. For a good measure, extend mashing time to 90 min (incl. 10 min mashout). Double crush your grains, add extra 10% of base malt (again for a good measure in terms of efficiency ).
Report back here & Good luck!!"
But bc it's your 1st biab batch: do a full volume mash (mash&sparge water combined). So, shoot for water:grist ratio, at least 1.50 qts/ lbs. For a good measure, extend mashing time to 90 min (incl. 10 min mashout). Double crush your grains, add extra 10% of base malt (again for a good measure in terms of efficiency ).
Report back here
& Good luck!!"Thanks for the correction. I just couldn't come up with the right name.
Brewnewb1 You should really try to use BIABscus excel sheet/calc from biabrewer.info
But bc it's your 1st biab batch: do a full volume mash (mash&sparge water combined). So, shoot for water:grist ratio, at least 1.50 qts/ lbs. For a good measure, extend mashing time to 90 min (incl. 10 min mashout). Double crush your grains, add extra 10% of base malt (again for a good measure in terms of efficiency ).
Report back here
Thanks for the help! Unfortunately I'm not a member so I can't download the calculator. Any chance someone could share it with me?
Unfortunately due to my small kettle, I'm not sure I could do a full volume mash. In that event, would it be ok to do something like mash in 3-3.5 gallons and then before boil top off to my pre-boil volume? (in this case it would be 3.75 gallons)
yes, that would work. What I have been doing for BIAB that has been working out pretty good is; I have a 8Gal kettle/mash tun. I start with 5 G of water and say 14 pounds of grain (that's about the max with my kettle and 5 g of water). After the mash I lose at least 1.5 G to the grain. So I do a mini sparge where I heat 2.5 G of water then poor that through the grain and drain into another pan. Then dump this wort into the boil kettle to bring volume up to 6 G pre-boil volume. I will lose about 1 gal during the boil. And then maybe 1/2 gal to trub and hops depending on the beer. And I end up with 5 gal or a bit more of wort in my carboy. 6 G in my 8 G kettle works fine but I have to keep an eye on it the whole time or it will boil over.
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