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:DI am going to die. And I never knew that you could get a water proof cover for a standard switch... so I may get a few. Thanks for the heads up. I just dont know if they will fit (3) of them on the face of my control panel.

I love seeing water proof switches on rigs that have open 120VAC or 240VAC electrical connections on the RIMS heaters LOL. Now that is priceless.:D

EDIT: I looked the covers up at Home Depot and they will NOT fit. They are 3" wide, I have three switchs, my panel is 8" wide... Well, it is official, I am going to die.
 
stevehaun said:
Here is my control panel. I have a one barrel brewery (30-35 gallon batches). My BK and HLT both have two 4500 watt elements. I have one control system for both vessels.

OK, I am not so tech savvy and cannot figure out how to post the pictures here.
However, here is a link to two pics of my control panel.
Picasa Web Albums - STEVEN - brewing
Click to expand...

Where did you buy the heat sinks and do you remember what model they are? Thanks.
 
keiths said:
There just as water proof as all the house switches I see being used, but like I said I am not that sloppy and dont get it wet.:)
Click to expand...

This is a good point, but as has already been mentioned, if it can go wrong; it will.

Case in point: I brewed on New Years for the first time with my rig all wired up to switches, etc. I checked and doublechecked for leaks, etc. and everything looked fine. At the end of my actual brewing and the start of chilling, one of my qd's for the hose on the cfc wastewater failed and started spraying water in a downward fashion directly on my pump and its associated switchbox. I immediately killed power and went back to dry everything. If I hadn't weatherproofed the thing, I would have shorted out my pump or worse....

**** happens all the time....I just think that if you have an all-electric rig, it might be a good idea to shield your stuff from an accidental spill.

:off: I also think using fermcap goes a long way in terms of safety and cleanup.....boilovers simply don't happen when you use it in the boil.
 
kladue said:
How much of the fermcap do you use in each batch?, this sounds like great answer to the problem of preventing boilover in an automated system.
Click to expand...

The dosage is two drops per gallon. What I do is use two drops per gallon based on how much wort I expect to collect after the boil... so usually 22 drops for my 11 gallon batches. The stuff definitely works...
 
kladue said:
How much of the fermcap do you use in each batch?, this sounds like great answer to the problem of preventing boilover in an automated system.
Click to expand...

I just use a half to whole dropper full per batch. I think 2 drops per gal is about right. I've even gone crazy with the stuff and had zero problems. It just changes the surface tension of the wort so that it can't produce enough bubbles for a massive boilover. Apparently it drops out in the fermenter, and doesn't affect head retention. One bottle will last most people a year or more, too. But that's a different discussion. I say it's worth its weight in gold if it prevents gunking up burners, wiring, etc.
 
That is what I needed as the boil kettle control programming is checking kettle temp for temperature rise plateau to determine boil start, then reduce gas flow to burner to hold boil. Ran out of points in first panel, no digital inputs left for an optical sensor for boil over prevention, might incorporate that function into second panel destined for fermentation temperature control.
 
IMG_3319.jpg



IMG_3321.jpg


Here is my panel I have been working to put together. Still needs to be touched up and repainted. I have not brewed with it yet, only done test runs with my HLT. My design intent was to be able to run the HLT on two 15 Amp circuits. The wiring in my house is suspect and I didn't want to push the limits too far, I also wanted to have the flexibility to operate in my garage, as is or in my basement in the future, or anywhere else I might take the system. In my testing with 2x 1500W elements heating 13 gallons of water in an uninsulated Keggle, I was getting some pretty satisfactory results. I don't have exact numbers at this time, but will update at some point when I get my system up and running. I was able to bring the water to a slight boil in the uninsulated Keggle, but nothing worth bragging about. In the future, I will set up for brewing in the evening and set a timer to start heating the HLT about 1.5 hours before I wake up.

The panel was aquired from work in trade for an hour of my comp time and a six pack of home brew. It is from Saginaw Controls Engineering. The PID was aquired for free at work, it is an Automation Direct with sells for around $200:rockin:. Toggle switches are from Home Depot and the Key Switch was aquired from work as well. SSRs and Thermo are from Auber. Receptacles are standard 15 amp receptacles with splash guards.

Each receptacle is controlled on/off with a dedicated toggle. Each element is on one of the two circuits. Both elements are controlled by the PID, however the toggle switches ultimately allow whether they have current or not. The remaining two receptacles are for a pump and a stirrer. Pump is in the mail and the stirrer is still being sourced. Still a little ways until the first test batch, but I am having a great time getting there! :mug:
 
I would always recommend plugging into a GFCI outlet at your source. It won't necessarily protect your equipment but it could save your life. There are some simple plug-in modules that you can plug into a normal outlet and then plug your equipment into. I think a 15A 120V GFCI module was around $10-20 at Home Depot.

You can also swap your breaker for a GFCI version. They are available even for 240V circuits.
 
mattreba said:
I would always recommend plugging into a GFCI outlet at your source. It won't necessarily protect your equipment but it could save your life. There are some simple plug-in modules that you can plug into a normal outlet and then plug your equipment into. I think a 15A 120V GFCI module was around $10-20 at Home Depot.

You can also swap your breaker for a GFCI version. They are available even for 240V circuits.
Click to expand...


I should have mentioned that in the original post. I did in fact purchase the stand alone GFCIs. One for each circuit. Thank you for your genuine concern though.
 
Thanks for all the ideas and inspirations guys!

I've gotten most of my parts in now and am trying various layouts in my 16x16x8 control panel. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

control_panel_mockup1.jpg


Once I figure it all out I'll be ordering the plastic labels.

I'm thinking black labels with white writing, and the case will be painted black as well.

Some comments as I'm sure people will have questions:

What are the 4 alarm switches for? They control the alarm light and buzzer in the top right and will be wired in parallel. The idea is that only one swtich will be 'on' at once. The 3 PIDS and Omron countdown timer all have alarms in them which I figure I might as well put to use. The coundown timer can tell me how much boil time I have left and possibly when to add hops. The boil pid can be set to warn me right before it hits boil. The HLT one can be used to tell me when strike temp is reached, and the mash one, well, I'm not sure yet. We'll see. ;) One benefit of having dedicated PIDS for everything is that you don't have to reprogram the alarm points or anything as you work through the process of brewing. Set it once and forget.

I found a small analog ammeter and voltmeter on ebay that are 1/16 DIN size (same size as the PIDs and timer) that will go in the bottom left. Not sure I like that position but they need to be not front and center so I'm not really sure where to place them. Here's what the ammeter looks like:

766e_1.JPG


In retrospect something digital may haven been better but they're all a lot larger - 70mm wide as compared to 48mm for the PIDs and timer. To me it seems odd that an ammeter and voltmeter (which are complete fluff and not needed) would be larger than the important controls in the box so I got these two small (inexpensive) 1/16 DIN ones.

I've got a switch above the Mash PID to select which of the two elements will be on since I'm making this a 30A max setup so that it can travel. This'll control a couple of SPDT 30A relays to make sure that BOTH legs of each element are off when needed.

Everything else should be obvious.

I dunno. The more I look at it, the more I don't like this layout. Gotta rethink it a bit more.

Kal
 
kal said:
Thanks for all the ideas and inspirations guys!

I've gotten most of my parts in now and am trying various layouts in my 16x16x8 control panel. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

control_panel_mockup1.jpg
Click to expand...

Hey, Kal. Can you elaborate on the alarm on your control panel? I am also putting a count down and alarm on mine - all I need is some sort of flashing light and/or intermittent buzzer.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Mylo
 
Hi Mylo,

Each of the PIDs and the Omron countown timer have relays in them. In the PIDs the relays are closed when a set temperature is reached (either high or low, your choice). The countdown timer relay is closed once it hits zero.

So here's what I thought about doing: Simply wiring up a 120V AC LED pilot light and 120V AC buzzer in parallel through all 4 relays. The 4 alarm switches will be used to control which of the 4 items can make the alarm go off (more than one is possible) or to turn that one alarm condition off.

The buzzer/pilot light combo could therefore be set to do the following (for example):

- Countdown timer could be set to count down the mash time, boil time, or possibly break down the boil time for hop additions.
- The HLT alarm could be set to go off once the strike temp is reached.
- The mash alarm could be set to .... hmmm.... not sure about this one. (Figured I'd put in a $4 switch in case I think of something). ;)
- the boil alarm could be set to let me know right before boil is reached so that I can monitor for boil overs. A low temp alarm could also be set to let me know once the low cool temp is reached if I recirculate and cool with a CFC or IC (when it's ready to transfer to fermenters).

Hope that helps!

If anyone has any other ideas let me know! I haven't punched any holes set so I'm still open to ideas! As I mentioned earlier, I figured why not stick four $4 switches, a $3 light and $7 buzzer in there simply because, well, all of the items have alarms so why not put something in in case I want to use them.

Kal
 
I got the box and all pilot lights, buzzers, and switches from this ebay store:

eBay Store - Electrical Replacement Parts: Circuit Breakers GE, Circuit Breakers C-H, Pilot Light Panel Indicators

Here's the 16x16x8 NEMA enclosure:

NEMA 4&12 INDOOR/OUTDOOR ENCLOSURE W/BACKPLATE 16X16X8 - eBay (item 400025548119 end time Feb-17-09 12:31:37 PST)

$78 for the encloure is a fantastic price. Even discount stores like AutomationDirect.com want almost x3 as much for the exact same product plus extra for the sub-panel (the back panel you bolt parts on to inside).


Kal
 
kal said:
Hi Mylo,

Each of the PIDs and the Omron countown timer have relays in them. In the PIDs the relays are closed when a set temperature is reached (either high or low, your choice). The countdown timer relay is closed once it hits zero.

So here's what I thought about doing: Simply wiring up a 120V AC LED pilot light and 120V AC buzzer in parallel through all 4 relays. The 4 alarm switches will be used to control which of the 4 items can make the alarm go off (more than one is possible) or to turn that one alarm condition off.

The buzzer/pilot light combo could therefore be set to do the following (for example):

- Countdown timer could be set to count down the mash time, boil time, or possibly break down the boil time for hop additions.
- The HLT alarm could be set to go off once the strike temp is reached.
- The mash alarm could be set to .... hmmm.... not sure about this one. (Figured I'd put in a $4 switch in case I think of something). ;)
- the boil alarm could be set to let me know right before boil is reached so that I can monitor for boil overs. A low temp alarm could also be set to let me know once the low cool temp is reached if I recirculate and cool with a CFC or IC (when it's ready to transfer to fermenters).

Hope that helps!

If anyone has any other ideas let me know! I haven't punched any holes set so I'm still open to ideas! As I mentioned earlier, I figured why not stick four $4 switches, a $3 light and $7 buzzer in there simply because, well, all of the items have alarms so why not put something in in case I want to use them.

Kal
Click to expand...

I'm with you on the alarm circuit. I actually designed the same feature into my panel. I just have a three way switch to toggle between temp based alarm (for the HLT), and a time based alarm (for the countdown timer). Ideally I would like to have some intermittent buzzer/flasher circuit - I think it would be easier to hear if I walked away for a min or two. Unfortunately, I cannot find any premade circuits like that (or any plans, thereof). I think I "settled" for a marine buzzer/light like what would be on a boat dash. It's pricey at about $25 - and doesn't buzz/flash intermittently. I'm hoping to find some electrical wiz that could tell me how to do it properly.


Mylo
 
kal said:
Thanks for all the ideas and inspirations guys!

I've gotten most of my parts in now and am trying various layouts in my 16x16x8 control panel. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

control_panel_mockup1.jpg


Once I figure it all out I'll be ordering the plastic labels.

I'm thinking black labels with white writing, and the case will be painted black as well.

Some comments as I'm sure people will have questions:

What are the 4 alarm switches for? They control the alarm light and buzzer in the top right and will be wired in parallel. The idea is that only one swtich will be 'on' at once. The 3 PIDS and Omron countdown timer all have alarms in them which I figure I might as well put to use. The coundown timer can tell me how much boil time I have left and possibly when to add hops. The boil pid can be set to warn me right before it hits boil. The HLT one can be used to tell me when strike temp is reached, and the mash one, well, I'm not sure yet. We'll see. ;) One benefit of having dedicated PIDS for everything is that you don't have to reprogram the alarm points or anything as you work through the process of brewing. Set it once and forget.

I found a small analog ammeter and voltmeter on ebay that are 1/16 DIN size (same size as the PIDs and timer) that will go in the bottom left. Not sure I like that position but they need to be not front and center so I'm not really sure where to place them. Here's what the ammeter looks like:

766e_1.JPG


In retrospect something digital may haven been better but they're all a lot larger - 70mm wide as compared to 48mm for the PIDs and timer. To me it seems odd that an ammeter and voltmeter (which are complete fluff and not needed) would be larger than the important controls in the box so I got these two small (inexpensive) 1/16 DIN ones.

I've got a switch above the Mash PID to select which of the two elements will be on since I'm making this a 30A max setup so that it can travel. This'll control a couple of SPDT 30A relays to make sure that BOTH legs of each element are off when needed.

Everything else should be obvious.

I dunno. The more I look at it, the more I don't like this layout. Gotta rethink it a bit more.

Kal
Click to expand...

Nice work, that's the same NEMA rated box and dimensions I used, yours looks great
 
I had planned adding timers to the control box, cut out and recessed. Hence the untouched bottom half of the box.

Control_Panel.jpg


But then brewed all summer with these timers just attached magnetically. I haven't found the exact timers I want, so these may just be a long term solution.

ControlPanel.jpg


Top left is master power with master power indicator light in top right.

Two Love TS Switches
4 silver toggle switches are:
MT Switch Power - MT Solenoid Power - HLT Switch Power - HLT Solenoid Power
2 Red lit switches on bottom are 2 pump switches
 
bakins said:
what are you guys using to cut out the holes in your panels?
Click to expand...

Simple step bit should work great.

799-3414.jpg


Most of the steel's pretty soft (unless you have a SS box). But even SS should not be an issue with a good step bit. It's what I'll be using to punch element holes in my 18 ga stainless kettles.

Kal
 
Ah - of course. I planned on 2 pilot holes in the corners and then a jigsaw (Sabresaw) with a nice (small toothed) metal cutting blade on it cutting at low angle. Then a square edged file to finish out the 2 corners that are rounded.

Jigsaw/Sabresaw:

jigsaw.jpg


Mrbowenz's 'Savant Systems 1400' box:

LaylongPuppy002.jpg


Thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/savant-systems-control-panel-54991/

Kal
 
bakins said:
what are you guys using to cut out the holes in your panels?
Click to expand...

Dremel with cut off wheel for the cutouts and just a steel drill bit for the holes. Most of the NEMA boxes are thin. You will likely need a step-bit if you are using stainless.

ez406.jpg
 
kal said:
Why 2 timers? What are you measuring? Just curious why you didn't find one timer to be enough...

Kal
Click to expand...

I also have two timers in mine, this way, I can be boiling one (with timer) and then immediately start another mash (with timer).
Thats how I set mine up at least.
 
Why 2 timers? What are you measuring? Just curious why you didn't find one timer to be enough...
Click to expand...
You forgot why two controllers?:D
One Love TSS2 will do both jobs.

Just looks cool to have all these gadgets.
I am a gadget junky myself.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
How do you get 1 LOVE controller to control 2 different vessels at 2 different temps?
Click to expand...

The Love TSS2 is designed to accept two inputs with independent relay output for dual temperature control.

My incubator uses the TSS2.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
ClaudiusB said:
The Love TSS2 is designed to accept two inputs with independent relay output for dual temperature control.

My incubator uses the TSS2.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
Click to expand...

This wouldn't work for me as I use 2 1500 watt elements in my system which requires 2 separate electrical circuits in order to power the system.

Also, I don't know that you can control heating at 2 set points with that but since I have never used one I am sure I could be wrong.

Linc
 
kal said:
Why 2 timers? What are you measuring? Just curious why you didn't find one timer to be enough...

Kal
Click to expand...

Two timers because I have one for my overall boil time and the other for hop additions OR one for mash time and one for boil if I am brewing multiple batches that day.

ClaudiusB said:
You forgot why two controllers?:D
One Love TSS2 will do both jobs.

Just looks cool to have all these gadgets.
I am a gadget junky myself.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
Click to expand...

Two Love Controllers so that I can set different set points to control separate solenoid valves as well as turning power off to one valve and still having power to the other. If the "TSS2" you speak of has all that independent function I wasn't aware of it at the time of my build. But I suspect I would still use two separate controllers considering at the time of my build I added the independent power to each controller as opposed to having them both come on with the master power.

Oh yeah....and multiple LEDs on the panel just looks more more cool :D
 
MNBugeater said:
Two timers because I have one for my overall boil time and the other for hop additions OR one for mash time and one for boil if I am brewing multiple batches that day.
Click to expand...
Forgot about hop additions. Makes sense. I really wish someone made inexpensive panel mount ones...

Kal
 
This wouldn't work for me as I use 2 1500 watt elements in my system which requires 2 separate electrical circuits in order to power the system.
Click to expand...
I don't see why not.
The TSS2 is like two independent TS2's in one package plus more.

Also, I don't know that you can control heating at 2 set points with that but since I have never used one I am sure I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes I can.
You can program each channel to work independent or dependent of each other.

Come by for a beer and a demo:mug:

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
Oh yeah....and multiple LEDs on the panel just looks more more cool
Click to expand...

Looks cool in the night, like Christmas:D

You are talking my language.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
MrNate said:
IMG_3319.jpgp


You get all kinds of bonus points for the key switch. No unauthorized brewing at your house!
Click to expand...

I laughed when saw that at first too but it got me thinking: I have a couple of small kids (2 and 5) and was going to put a big 30A disconnect on the wall up reasonsably high above my power outlet for my brew setup to avoid them walking up and hitting any buttons ....

Then I thought why not put a key switch right in the control panel. They're cheap (bought one on ebay for under $10). I'm adding a 30A relay and now everything can be in the one box. No disconnect needed.

I can put hang the key up high to ensure nobody starts flicking switches and hurts themselves (or fries an element).

Plus, it looks cool. :)

XB2-BG21.jpg


Kal
 

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