Astringency

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Bearcat Brewmeister

Bearcat Brewmeister

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The last batch of brown ale I batched was fairly astringent - combination of oversparging (I'm used to larger grain bills) and sparge water being to hot. It is in the keg now and has a not so nice "pucker" to it.

IS MY BEER RUINED??? ;)

Actually, I was wondering if adding some lactose would knock some of that astringency back or if anyone had any tips on correcting this.
 
I had the same problem with my first all grain batch, a pale ale. After being in bottles for 4 months it has mellowed quite a bit, but it's still there.
 
It'll mellow a bit, but not a lot. If its just a little off flavored right now it'll probably be ok eventually.

If its unbearable right now, its probably a lost cause.
 
I'm about to dump a keg pretty soon due to the same issues.

It was my first PM and it was supposed to be a Blue Moon clone but it turned into a really bitter nightmare. Its been in the keg for quite awhile but i'm going to have to pitch soon because its not clearing up.

That being said, as mentioned earlier you can leave it for awhile and see if it clears up but usually its not going to clear up very much.
 
By no means am I an expert on this matter, but I might recommend gelatin finings. I had (still have) a similar problem with an Imperial coffee stout that I'd brewed last fall. At that time, the astringency was overbearing, and I attributed it to having overhopped by a factor of about 5. The "hoppiness" did mellow with time, but the astringency was still awful. After reviewing my brew notes, I realised that my mash temps (this was a PM) were a bit on the high side, and I had probably extracted tannins. So I added gelatin finings in the secondary a week before bottling. It's still mellowing in the bottles (big beer = needs time), but I saw a definite improvement the last time I sampled it. Lactose could also help balance the astringency. Or you could blend it with another brew to dilute it. (I did that with half of my ICS, in case it doesn't turn out right despite the gelatin finings.)
 
BeerSmith said:
Check out the Troubleshooting page from BrewWiki, it has a section on Astringency (husky).

Cheers,
Brad
Click to expand...
Thanks, but I already know why I have it. I want to know if there is anything I can do to fix it. Never had this issue in 10 years of brewing, but I did two different things on this batch. First, it was the lowest smallest grain bill I ever used (OG - 1.039), but I sparged as if I did my normal 12+ pound grain bills, so oversparged. Second, I used to have a sparge arm that dripped water over the top of my grain bed. I used 190F water, but due to the small dropplet's exposure to the air during their fall on to the grain, my grain bed never got over 170F. I now mounted my sparge arm to the lid of my mash tun cooler and the air if now insulated. When the droplets fall, they don't drop in temperature any more, but I didn't compensate with lower temperature sparge water. So double whammy - I sparged my last runnings at probably around 1.006 with 190F sparge water.

To fix, my head immediately went to lactose since this is supposed to be a Southern English Brown Ale (sweet like a milk stout, but not as dark and roasty). What I may do is make a beer that should have some roast and astringency and blend them, but I am still curious if just adding lactose would help.
 
I have the same problem...Was doing a search when i found this thread. The beer i made is a lager so i thought the first thing i would do is age it for a few months..I started thinking about other things if that didn't work. One of them is probably kill all the yeast with some sorbate. Then i was thinking to add honey to balance out the dry with the sweet and force carb it if it tasted better... Also i was going to add honey without killing the yeast and make a half mead half beer something rather.I have a few months to think about it. It's a 15 gallon batch so i might try 3 different things to see what works the best. I'll do a write up on it but I'm sure that's not gonna help you now. Let us know what you do and how well it works.
 
Yeah I think lactose may balance it out a bit but probably not get rid of it. Someone stated above that gelatin works. I do know that as a clarifier gelatin only works when tannins are present. Also, if you put too much gelatin in something that is tannic it can strip the tannins. I have never seen this done in beer but I'd suppose it sounds like it'd work.
 
Well, I just tried lactose and it doesn't work. Now it is astringent and sweet. I did blind samples with down to 1/16 tsp per 8 oz of beer and the one without lactose was always better, but astringent. I guess this makes sence since sweet counters bitterness, but astringency is not really bitterness. I will try the gelatin.
 
I added 1 cup honey boiled in two cups water to an oat stout that I had similar problems with, just dumped it right in the keg. Pretty much hid the astringency, but now it's too sweet. You, as well as I, may be SOL.
 
My two cents based on when this happened to me - just cellar it for a few months. If mellows over time and won't be nearly as pronounced. In my case I actually really enjoyed it after it aged. Push the bottles to the back of the beer shelves and keep brewing.
 
I have had an ESB in the bottle now for about 4 months and I still can't drink it. I plan on keeping them around untill I need the bottles then dumping. Sucks but the next batch will be better.
 
Another thing to check is your water. If your water is too alkaline it can cause an astringent taste and a harshness with the hops. My first few batches had this taste until I started diluting. Lactic acid was never enough.
 
My first batch, a fat tire clone, was good but had a off flavor. I believe this was astringency. I held my specialty grains at 154 approximatly I thought!!! on the stovetop with an electric burner. Now move forward to last Sunday night I brewed a Northern English Brown with a small partial mash (2.3lbs grain). I'm using a MLT. Anyway I couldnt' seem to get the temp high enough in the mash tun so I added a pint of 190+ degree water trying to boost the temp. Short version, I think I was getting false readings on the themometer and I added a bit too much water and raised the temp too high, extracting some tannins. Though this time I think it'll be minor... well one can hope atleast!

So my question is this what kind of thermometer are yall using? I've got a regular kitchen probe themometer. Thoughts on a digital thermometer?

Schlante,
Phillip
 
UPDATE:

I tried the gelatin and it worked well. I think it would have worked better had I gently stirred it in and had the beer not been carbonated. I read after I added it that stiring it in helps it bond electronically to the negatively charged particles before settling out (I assume the tannins are negatively charged). Still, a 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin (hydrated in 1/2 cup of water then boiled and cooled) knocked out at least half of the astringency, maybe more, even though a lot of it settled out without contacting all of the contents. I also added it to my Scottish ale which normally is crystal clear but this time had chill haze. Used 1/4 teaspoon and it worked like a charm.
 
Bearcat Brewmeister said:
First, it was the lowest smallest grain bill I ever used (OG - 1.039), but I sparged as if I did my normal 12+ pound grain bills, so oversparged.

Bear.Brew. - Can you detail what you mean by your comment. I do a mash out that results in getting 1/2 of my boil volume followed by two equal sparges to get the other half. Would this have to change when using a small grainbill?
Click to expand...
 
tbone, he means he used the same amount of sparge water for 12 lbs of grain (say, about 6 gallons or so) but the grainbill was smaller. The less grain you use, the less sparge water you need. Once the SG of the runnings hits 1.005 (I think?) the sparge water starts extracting tannins from the grain.
 
EvilTOJ said:
tbone, he means he used the same amount of sparge water for 12 lbs of grain (say, about 6 gallons or so) but the grainbill was smaller. The less grain you use, the less sparge water you need. Once the SG of the runnings hits 1.005 (I think?) the sparge water starts extracting tannins from the grain.
Click to expand...


I guess that I am a bit confused. You still need to end up with 6.5 gallons or so for a 5 gallon batch. So do you sparge with less then top off to 6.5 gallons? Don't want to hijack the thread but the reason that I am asking is that I did my 8th AG with a small grain bill and had problems that I never had with a large one.
 
Bearcat Brewmeister said:
UPDATE:

I tried the gelatin and it worked well. I think it would have worked better had I gently stirred it in and had the beer not been carbonated. I read after I added it that stiring it in helps it bond electronically to the negatively charged particles before settling out (I assume the tannins are negatively charged). Still, a 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin (hydrated in 1/2 cup of water then boiled and cooled) knocked out at least half of the astringency, maybe more, even though a lot of it settled out without contacting all of the contents. I also added it to my Scottish ale which normally is crystal clear but this time had chill haze. Used 1/4 teaspoon and it worked like a charm.
Click to expand...

Just wondering what type of gelatin that you used and where you got it???
 
tbone said:
I guess that I am a bit confused. You still need to end up with 6.5 gallons or so for a 5 gallon batch. So do you sparge with less then top off to 6.5 gallons? Don't want to hijack the thread but the reason that I am asking is that I did my 8th AG with a small grain bill and had problems that I never had with a large one.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Sparge until runnings are down to 1.008 or so at which point you have about as much sugar as you are going to get without tannin extraction. Then top off with water to get your pre-boil volume. I would have to check a lot of history of my recipes, but I don't think I ever made a beer under 1.050 before, so I have always collected 6.5 gallons of wort without going under 1.008 final runnings.

jesse said:
Just wondering what type of gelatin that you used and where you got it???
Click to expand...
I bought the gelatin finings you find in most homebrew stores - I think it is LD Carlson.
 
jesse said:
Just wondering what type of gelatin that you used and where you got it???
Click to expand...

Haven't looked at this thread in a while, so I thought I'd chime in.

Jesse, you can get gelatin finings from your HBS or online. Northern Brewer sells it for about $1.10 per oz. As Beercat said, you only need about 1/2 a teaspoon for 5 gallons, so the 1 ounce bottle could last you for a few batches.

Beercat, glad it worked out! I agree that stirring it in might help, but I haven't tried it. I didn't stir either, and I'm starting to notice that some of my bottles seem more mellow than others. Mind you, that could also be due to several other factors.
 

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