Is stuck sparge a problem with batch & braid?

I was wondering if stuck sparges are a problem when using the batch sparge method in a cylindrical cooler with a stainless steel braid? I am wondering because I would like to use my Corona grain mill to crush my grains and would like to crush them fine enough to maximize my efficiency. My thinking is, if it does get stuck, you just give it a stir. Am I wrong?

I use a corona and I batch sparge in a rectangular cooler....I've done 6 batches so far with no problems....i always add some rice hulls though....a little added insurance for little cost

I use a Bazooka screen (essentially a big open weave braid) in my mash tun - I batch sparge - and I have never had a stuck sparge. I'm sure the braid users will chime in as well. Several guys in the local brew club use braids and I have not heard about many stuck sparges from them.

I've had a stuck sparge that had me scooping all my grain out with a strainer. They're a pain in the but won't damage you're beer.
+15 on rice hulls. Throw a pound in your mash. The impart no flavor, feel or anything else to the brew. Just give you a nice filter. They're recommended in large wheat% grainbills and extra insurance on others.

Since I started using a SS braid instead of the crappy plastic one (dont ask long story) I havent had a stuck sparge yet (knock on wood). Using a braid and 6.5gal round cooler. Seems to work ok for me.




SD

I had a few batches where the sparge got stuck or was just extremely slow. Tying a knot in the braid and knotting it up around the inside of the spiggot worked wonders - seems like the metal braid has a tendency to stretch out, the holes get big and it lets grain in and then it clogs up. Tying a knot in it fixed mine just fine.

if you use a SS braid, take the inner tube out. I had a big ole stuck sparge trying to use mine cause the mesh just looked too flimsy.

I've had one stuck and a few that were slow. The main reason for this is my LHBS ran the wheat through twice to help with my efficiency. BIG mistake. This was not the fault of the braid but mine for letting them do that. I just throw in a bunch of rice hulls for anything with much wheat in it now.

tonymaud said:

I was wondering if stuck sparges are a problem when using the batch sparge method in a cylindrical cooler with a stainless steel braid? I am wondering because I would like to use my Corona grain mill to crush my grains and would like to crush them fine enough to maximize my efficiency. My thinking is, if it does get stuck, you just give it a stir. Am I wrong?

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I use this exact set-up and grind pretty fine with my Corona (low-80's efficiency). I have not had a stuck sparge yet, although I did come close once with a hefe that had a lot of wheat.

Just make sure you get a decent SS braid with a tight-knit weave to it, and make sure it isn't plastic (#1 cause of people complaining that their 'SS' braid collapsed/stuck).

I made a coil of stiff wire and slipped it inside my braid. That helped a lot- especially when the grain-bed depth is thick.

Another important tool is having really hot sparge water. I mean hot enough to raise the entire mash to around 168F. That'll loosen it up and you should have a worry-free run-off. Rice hulls are good too but an option.

If I encounter a stuck mash I sometimes blow through the tube to 'unstick' it.

Stirring a stuck mash is unlikely to help unfortunately.

Otherwise depending on what equipment you have cobbled together patience is a worthy virtue since a single run can last anywhere from 15-30 minutes IME.

Crush till scared... and beyond.

don't shred your grains. you're not going to get better efficiency if half of your wort is stuck in the mash.

FlyGuy said:

Just make sure you get a decent SS braid with a tight-knit weave to it, and make sure it isn't plastic (#1 cause of people complaining that their 'SS' braid collapsed/stuck).

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Thanks FlyGuy,
It is your setup exactly that I am trying to emulate. (thanks to that immensely popular MLT post). I recall reading from that post that you had cut notches into some vinyl tubing and inserted it into the SS braid. Did you find that worked best, or did you go back to just the SS braid alone, or some other setup altogether? Any other revelations you can share that may be helpful before I actually build it?

tonymaud said:

I was wondering if stuck sparges are a problem when using the batch sparge method in a cylindrical cooler with a stainless steel braid? I am wondering because I would like to use my Corona grain mill to crush my grains and would like to crush them fine enough to maximize my efficiency. My thinking is, if it does get stuck, you just give it a stir. Am I wrong?

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tonymaud

Stuck sparges are a fact of life for some styles. They are a pain, but not necessarily a problem in the final brew. However, there are a few issues that your description brings up in my mind. You can use a Corona Mill for grinding your grains -- has been used for decades and does work. The problem is getting too fine a grind. What you want is to crack the interior starch and leave the husk as intact as possible. A very fine grind will get you better efficiency, but you will run the risk of leaching too many tannins from the finely ground mash if you are not very careful of your sparge ph. Simply stiring a stuck mash without a complete vorlauf will again rinse grain husks into the wort and the boil.

I'd recommend a bit of rice hulls and a vorlauf that produces as clear a wort as you can. Watch your ph if you have the capability. Good luck and keep brewing.

Mike

tonymaud said:

Thanks FlyGuy,
It is your setup exactly that I am trying to emulate. (thanks to that immensely popular MLT post). I recall reading from that post that you had cut notches into some vinyl tubing and inserted it into the SS braid. Did you find that worked best, or did you go back to just the SS braid alone, or some other setup altogether? Any other revelations you can share that may be helpful before I actually build it?

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Tony - glad you found that information helpful. And yes, I still use that vinyl tubing inside my braid. I don't know that it is necessary, but it definitely can't hurt and my braid is crush-proof now. The only change I am making to the system right now is to use a circular braid because I am changing over to a recirculating mash system and I don't want dead spots. Otherwise, the straight braid works just fine for batch sparging.

Best of luck on your build!

I found it easier to get a stuck sparge when using the notched vinyl tube inside the braid. It left fewer location for wort to drain, if the farthest notch was clogged, you're done, where-as just the braid it would have to clogged all the way at the front of the braid to completely hault runnings. If you use the vinyel tube, put several notches and one as far forward as possible.

Here's a quick drawing of how I notched mine. Notice whereever teh first notch is it it gets clogged, nuthing can get past it no matter how unclogged all previous notches would be, thus the need for the notch as far forward as possible.

I used a plain old braid for about 12 batches including two 60% wheat beers and never stuck.

I just have a braid without any vinyl inside. I've done seven batches with my MLT so far, and I've only now just had my first stuck sparge... but it was on an oatmeal stout with 1.5 lbs of flaked oats. Also, I got my grains crushed at the LHBS, which crushes finer than AHB, my previous go-to. I solved the situation by simply stirring in the rest of my rice hulls. I think that a really thick, gummy mash will always be an issue for sparging with a braid, but I'm going to keep going with my system until I have to replace something before I upgrade the hardware.

For what it's worth, I have had a stuck sparge using a false bottom. I honestly think the braid is the least likely to get plugged of all separation methods.

IrregularPulse said:

I found it easier to get a stuck sparge when using the notched vinyl tube inside the braid. It left fewer location for wort to drain, if the farthest notch was clogged, you're done, where-as just the braid it would have to clogged all the way at the front of the braid to completely hault runnings. If you use the vinyel tube, put several notches and one as far forward as possible.

Here's a quick drawing of how I notched mine. Notice whereever teh first notch is it it gets clogged, nuthing can get past it no matter how unclogged all previous notches would be, thus the need for the notch as far forward as possible.

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I don't quite understand what you mean -- the braid goes over the tubing, preventing material from entering the tubing. Anything that does enter should be fine enough to pass through. It shouldn't be easy to gum up the tube itself inside the braid.

Perhaps you are not using a tight enough weave on your braid? Or perhaps you need to go a little slower when you first vorlauf to build up a filter bed around the braid first?

I got one stuck sparge because I open the valve all the way before the grain bed was really set. Start your drain of the mash slowly. I cleared mine by going ahead and dumping about half my sparge water in the mash tun somewhat vigorously which stirred up the entire grain bed quite nicely then waited ten min for it to settle and started my run off slowly and kept the valve about half closed. Worked like a champ.

I use the round 10 gallon cooler with the braided line. I do batch sparges and have never had on stick. I do not open my valve all the way as some do when batch sparging. My line is long and sometimes floats up in the mash. I plan on cutting it to where it just reaches the other side of the cooler to help keep it down.

In 325 batches with braid, I've never had a stuck runoff. That includes using large amounts of wheat or rye and no rice hulls.

I get some really slow runnings when I do a wheat beer, but if it gets stuck, I just stir, blow back up the tube, and vorloff again. I don't worry about sanitization cause its all going in for an hour boil at least.
I also batch sparge with 190F water, gets the bed up to around 165F and keeps the jello effect to a minimum.

Denny said:

In 325 batches with braid, I've never had a stuck runoff. That includes using large amounts of wheat or rye and no rice hulls.

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If possible (sorry if this has already been done somewhere) would you post a pic sometime of your grains after a crush?

I brew in a bag. No stuck sparges for me. It was the best $3 I have spent on brewing stuff.

Nikobrew said:

If possible (sorry if this has already been done somewhere) would you post a pic sometime of your grains after a crush?

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I'll try to find one, but I crush VERY fine. I pretty much close my adjustable JSP Maltmill all the way down.

Denny said:

I'll try to find one, but I crush VERY fine. I pretty much close my adjustable JSP Maltmill all the way down.

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I just want to look at that or any pic of a good crush when I go to my LHBS and am told that Im getting the crush that "another customer set the mill to who gets a high efficiency"" who I THINK she said in the eighties but now Im not sure. I hate to think that she's just trying to sell more grain as she's really helpful and has a great little shop but at the same time she's a business.

You could try explaining that you're not brewing on that other customer's system and you need a crush that works with your system.

Here are some pictures from another site(scroll down), and Denny chimed in on that one also.
The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - How fine do you grind?

Holy crap I need to print one of those out next time I go to my LHBS and mill grain. No wonder my efficiency stays at 65%

My crush looks like those also.

I"ve had one stuck sparge with my s/s braid. I stirred the mash too much and kinked the braid right where it met the cooler wall, and i didn't get a single drop of wort. I had to scoop out 30 quarts of water and twenty six pounds of grain into an 8 gallon plastic fermenter before I could see what my problem was. It was my biggest mash in my brief homebrewing career, and i was stirring the piss out of it every five minutes. My next equipment upgrade will be a bazooka screen! But for now the braid works very well for me.

I really like the braids meant to hook up water heaters. The braid is about 1" in diameter and has quite a lot of heft.

Bobby_M said:

I really like the braids meant to hook up water heaters. The braid is about 1" in diameter and has quite a lot of heft.

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Just looked these up. 5/8" ID diameter. I may have to try this out. Thanks!