Ghetto/DIY Split Cooler or Store Bought?

Howdy y'all,

I'm a long time reader with my first post; I usually find what I need on here or the web, but I'm really stumped and need your help:

So I had the amazing fortune of finding several one-foot thick structural insulated panels. They are faced with powder coated sheet metal. They are used for building commercial kit freezers, usually ones for palletized products stacked on shelves several stories high. These kits are in the six-figure range. This one company I did business with accidentally ordered a kit that was too big, and I saw the extra panels in the back store yard. They were going to order dumpsters to send them to the landfill. Nooooooooooo…Like any DIY brewer worth their salt, I offered to haul them away. Several months later, I have now figured out untraditional ways to cut, shape and connect these suckers. (I even made a door, sourcing hinges and parts from eBay; I had to special order extra long bolts for structural connections as the actual kit panel parts were **ridiculously** expensive).

Bottom line: I have myself a walk-in...:rockin:

Well...I almost have a walk-in. All is left is to cool it. However, a simple through the wall window or wall A/C unit won't work. The walls are sheet metal and the filling is one foot thick Styrofoam. Drilling through it is a pain. Cutting is extremely difficult, particularly with precision in mind. Besides, cutting a window sized hole would lose huge amounts of the insulation properties that make this setup desirable in the first place. So, I'm thinking a split cooler setup. The cooling line would require a decent sized hole, but more practical than a giant window sized cut. I'm thinking something like this: http://tinyurl.com/4z6y7cc. I like that it is off the shelf and ready to go. But...I'm already in deep in the wallet on this project. So I do have an in wall A/C unit that is in decent shape, maybe 10 years old, that I would be happy to sacrifice, if I can just get some real tips on how to turn it into a split cooler, if that is even possible. I did see someone's pics online that had pimped a fridge into a glycol unit, and they did all kids of stuff to the compressor and condenser. However, it was just pic/homebrew porn and not any detail. I am not above hard work or research. However, if it involves discharging and recharging the system, I bet that will eat away any potential savings. Just a gut feeling I have.

Oh, BTW, this walk-in will be more for red wine storage; I have literally maybe 50 gallons to bottle once this is all done. I may have some overproduction beer stored in kegs in there at those temps sometimes. But the primary goal is red wine temps, not lager or regular fridge temps. I already have separate fridges for beer fermentation, dispensing, etc.

So...thoughts? Ideas?

I just want to say thanks in advance. I appreciate all of your help. This is a huge deal for me.

MMJ

P.S. Already read the Wiki...hope I didn't miss something.

Any kind of cutting of the coolant lines will require discharge, soldering and recharging. It wouldn't be terribly difficult given the right tools, or just make friends with an A/C guy.

Have you considered simply using a duct and a 4-6" hole to blow the air into the cool room?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/11/grad-student-bolts-air-conditioner-onto-car-to-beat-texas-heat/

camiller said:

Have you considered simply using a duct and a 4-6" hole to blow the air into the cool room?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/11/grad-student-bolts-air-conditioner-onto-car-to-beat-texas-heat/

Click to expand...

Yeah, I really did give that some thought. But I go back to two issues:

1) The whole issue of it being a gigantic PITA to cut these things. The larger the hole, the bigger the pain. Can't emphasize that enough. Think jagged, sharp edges. Also, they were difficult to cut laying down, prior to assembly. Now it is a free standing structure (I know, d'oh! Should have planned this out better).

But with just the coolant lines, I should be able to get away with hammering at it with a hole saw on the one side, taking a very long drill bit through to the other, then doing the hole saw bit through that. A lot more direct. But also, more expensive.

2) The bigger the hole, the more insulation/cooling I'll lose.

Thanks, and keep those ideas coming,

MMJ

LakewoodBrew said:

Any kind of cutting of the coolant lines will require discharge, soldering and recharging. It wouldn't be terribly difficult given the right tools, or just make friends with an A/C guy.

Click to expand...

I suppose it couldn't hurt to put an ad on Craigslist--"Wanted for trade: A/C help for (lots of) beer?"

Thanks,

MMJ

Just a question on cutting the panels... How thick is the sheet metal on the outsides of the foam?

Would it be possible to just drill a hole using a hole saw rather the. Standard drill bits? What about a Rotozip or a router? I know Rotozip has metal cutting bits and I'm sure you could find something that would fit a router that works the same way.

If you can get a clean cut hole you could just put an AC right through and not worry about rigging some fridge to be external to the room?

Can you post pictures of the room and maybe a side profile of the wall materials?

Gush said:

Just a question on cutting the panels... How thick is the sheet metal on the outsides of the foam?

Would it be possible to just drill a hole using a hole saw rather the. Standard drill bits? What about a Rotozip or a router? I know Rotozip has metal cutting bits and I'm sure you could find something that would fit a router that works the same way.

If you can get a clean cut hole you could just put an AC right through and not worry about rigging some fridge to be external to the room?

Can you post pictures of the room and maybe a side profile of the wall materials?

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Thanks for your reply Gush,

A hole saw is mentioned in either my post or one of the responses above. It will work, although I'll need to "hammer on it," i.e. be aggressive with it. But it works. Once that hole is on the one side, I have used a drill bit that is over a foot long to then drill through the foam. This then creates a starter hole on the metal exactly on the other side of the panel. Then I can use the hole saw on that corresponding side, and so I have a hole in the exact spot across on each side of the other. Then I take out the foam in between, and viola! A perfect hole through for electrical, or...I'm hoping the coolant lines for a split cooler. Hence my idea and the intent of my original post.

The best way I have found to cut larger straight cuts is with a metal cutting blade of a circular saw. Few other tools have enough juice. A lot of trials with tools that didn't have the horsepower were slow going and it also produced poor results, i.e. "waffling" the edges of the metal. The circular saw works OK and goes through, although with much care and effort required. I have found this was best done with the panels on the ground, with me kneeling directly on the panel, so I could control the cut carefully. Now that the unit is up and assembled, I am very hesitant to try to make these kinds of cuts. I know it is much less safe. I have zero interest in taking iit apart to make a cut. Also, As I noted, I don't want a through the wall A/C anyway.

So the original post was about a ghetto or split cooler. I'm going to steer the thread back on topic. Anyone have any other ideas, suggestions? Something along those lines?

I found a real good deal on one of these units locally: http://www.beveragefactory.com/wine/cooling/winemate/2500SSD.shtml

I like that it also controls humidity. I'm now leaning in this direction. I still will need to befriend or compensate an HVAC tech to charge the thing for me. But this clearly should give me good results.

Thanks,

MMJ

P.S. I will try to post pics soon.

Very nice! How big of a price difference is the mini split cooler vs. the commercial cooler?

One of these is most definitly the way I would go! It seems to me you just need to weight out the cost and efficiency of each. With the mini split you could do all of the install and connecting yourself and then have someone come out and vaccum and charge the system. With the wine unit, you'll have to get someone out to install the high and low pressure lines for you and then vaccum and charge the system. Also the wine unit that you found a deal on, does it come with everything? (i.e. evaporating unit, condensing unit, thermostat controls, etc.)
Seems to me the only thing you'd need for the mini split would be a new thermostat control (depending on how cold you were trying to get the room, like refrigerator temps) the CoolBot would take care of that for you and it's only $200.

Hope this helps....

Drill with 1/4" bit.
Jig saw
Buck saw
Metal Duct tape

Through-wall air conditioner with box.

Mark out the square for the AC. Drill a hole in one corner. Use the jigsaw to cut out the square. Go slow and let the saw cut it clean.

Make the same hole on the outside.

Take the buck saw blade off the frame. Poke it through the styrofoam. Saw along the edge of the metal. If you have a friend on the outside it will help keep the saw square.

insert the AC and call it done. Even if you have to buy all the tools, you're still cheaper than a split system.

B

Can we get pictures?

I'll bet a joe homeowner split cooler will work, given the insulating properties you say this stuff has...

I'm pretty sure trying to cobble something together is going to end up costing you more than just going with a purpose built system.

Call a Refrigeration tech and have them come out and give you a quote.

mmurray said:

Very nice! How big of a price difference is the mini split cooler vs. the commercial cooler?

One of these is most definitly the way I would go! It seems to me you just need to weight out the cost and efficiency of each. With the mini split you could do all of the install and connecting yourself and then have someone come out and vaccum and charge the system. With the wine unit, you'll have to get someone out to install the high and low pressure lines for you and then vaccum and charge the system. Also the wine unit that you found a deal on, does it come with everything? (i.e. evaporating unit, condensing unit, thermostat controls, etc.)
Seems to me the only thing you'd need for the mini split would be a new thermostat control (depending on how cold you were trying to get the room, like refrigerator temps) the CoolBot would take care of that for you and it's only $200.

Hope this helps....

Click to expand...

Thanks mmurray, this is helpful.

There's a local shop that's clearing out the old gear to make way for the new. I'm in the SF Bay area, so it isn't uncommon to see wine-based deals this time of year. Vendors want to unload stock before they do orders from overseas. I've got some deals this way before.

The price difference from the split cooler to the pro wine room cooler is very little, about $100 more. Of course, a party of the reason why is the shipping cost for the split. With the wine room cooler, I can just pick it up. Mmurray, the price includes everything: evaporator, condenser, and the thermostat and humidistat controls are built in. It has an interesting setup, where you set the differential, max and min temp and humidity by dip switches. But there is a simple digital readout that shows status. Apparently the idea is that if the power fails, it automatically resets to the dip switch settings.

I really like the humidity control, as it will help keep the corks moist over time, and it will also remove excess moisture. There will be several cases of bottles in there at any time, plus a French oak barrel.

I really didn't want to spend the cash, but I just know it's going to be 100 times better. I know it will increase my winemaking abilities, so I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet. It's like homebrewing...I've rarely felt disappointment for getting and using better gear. Usually, it has been the opposite. It has only given me one more tool in the tool chest.

I also have an occasional partner in my winemaking activities, and he will be storing some bottles in my unit as well, so he's going to kick down a third. So that will help.

I'm also taking one poster's advice and I'm asking around in my network. Someone must be an HVAC tech, or know someone who is, so I can get them to charge it for me. If not, I'll just have to pay a pro to do it. We'll see.

I'm headed out 'fer Saturday night fun right now, but I will snap some pics, maybe tomorrow. I should have taken them before I posted...sorry about that. Again, my first post and all. I do have to say, the thing won't look like much to some. It's a giant white box. But although it is a total amateur job, I'm still quite proud of it.

Thanks,

MMJ

Sounds like you have your decision and one you'll be happy with! Good luck and hopefully you'll find someone in the HVAC business willing to cut you a deal!

Enjoy!