Bottle now or wait?

I have a dunkelweizen that has been fermenting for 2 weeks in the primary. I did not rack to a secondary because I didn't think it was necessary for this beer. Fermentation seems to be complete, as evidenced by the gravity readings and lack of airlock activity.

Should I go ahead and bottle this beer, or would it benefit from sitting an extra week in the fermenting bucket? Even if there is a benefit from additional time, would that same benefit apply if I choose to bottle and just let it bottle condition?

I guess I just don't see the point of waiting if the fermentation is complete.

You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

Contrary to what you may think, it's been discovered that actually taking it off the yeast too soon prevents some much needed cleanup (and the true secondary fermentation period) from happening. That's why many of us have opted for LONG primary/No secondary. Instead of rushing the beer off the yeast cake before the job is done. The yeast are very tenacious creatures, and if we actually leave them the heck alone, and not move them too soon, they will actually clean up after themselves, and remove their own waste/by products of fermentation, and actually will lead to cleaner, clearer and fresher tasting beers.



John palmer says this..

How To Brew said:

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

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You can read about that here, and have all your questions answered about that as well. THIS is the most updated information;https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/


Bottom line, we leave our beers alone, some of us for a month, it let's the beer ferment and the yeast clean up after itself. Many of us have found a remarkable improvement on our beers since we began leaving our beer in primary for a month.

Revvy said:

. . . and actually will lead to cleaner, clearer and fresher tasting beers.

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So moving a beer to a secondary exposes it to o2, and does cause a change in final flavor (not as fresh)? DO you experienced HB'ers move to a secondary at all?

I'm no expert but I listened to Revvy and my brew came out crytal clear after leaving it in the primary for 4 weeks, then bottle conditioning. The force is strong with him.... My other beers suffered cloudyness until I joined up here and read these posts.

Better brewing through simplicity.

My beers were fairly cloudy at first too. After I joined the forum here, I started leaving my beers in the primary for 4 weeks. Simultaneously I tried things like cold crashing and adding gelatin. My beer got much clearer. Then I decided to skip the gelatin and cold crashing steps, and my beer was just as clear.

My friend, who just got into brewing, asked me how my beer gets so clear. I told him I let it sit in the primary for a month.

I don't use a secondary regularly simply because I can skip it and get the same or better results. I still use a secondary for some things - doing a TRUE secondary fermentation (adding fruit, brett, etc.), lagering (though I may stop using it for lagering soon), sometimes dry hopping if I want an easier time washing the yeast (though most times I just throw the hops in the primary). I really have very little use for one, though.

Well crap! I moved my ESB to secondary last week

Stardust said:

Well crap! I moved my ESB to secondary last week

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Oh well! Just try it next time

Stardust said:

Well crap! I moved my ESB to secondary last week

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If done correctly, no problem. I just don't advocate for it.

I'm a huge fan of cold-crashing. There's a reason the big guys do it. I don't feel like waiting for the yeast to fall, especially with less flocculent strains. I grew weary of staring at Chico ale yeast taking forever to fall out, 2 days of cold crashing does what 3 weeks of room-temp waiting does.

*DISCLAIMER*

Noob brewer: Leave your beer in primary for three weeks for your first couple brews. Taste them regularly and become familiar with what fermentation looks like and with what a finished, un-carbed beer tastes like. Then you can start to monkey around with speeding things up.

Yeah I think I'm sold on skipping the secondary and just leaving it in the primary. I'm just more curious about the timing of bottling.

Let's put it this way. Suppose I want this beer to be ready to drink 4 weeks from now. Would I be better off bottling now after 2 weeks of fermentation, or leave it another week in the fermenter before bottling? If I bottle now, that gives it 4 weeks to carb up, and it seems like it can continue to bottle condition. If I let it ferment another week, then I'm only giving it 3 weeks to carb up, which may not be enough time. Is the main benefit of leaving it in the fermenter just to allow it more time to clear up? Considering this is a dunkelweizen, I'm not sure it needs to be too clear.

On the subject of cold crashing, what temp would I be aiming for? I don't have a fridge with temp control, but I use a water bath to stabilize my fermentation temperature. I could potentially put a lot of ice in the water bath to drop the temp for about 2 days.

From personal experience, most of my beers carb up within a week of bottle conditioning. Now, they are still green after 1 week, but they are carbed. Usually after about 3 weeks in the bottle they are conditioned and ready to go!

Also, read this if you haven't: Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning

drycreek said:

Yeah I think I'm sold on skipping the secondary and just leaving it in the primary. I'm just more curious about the timing of bottling.

Let's put it this way. Suppose I want this beer to be ready to drink 4 weeks from now. Would I be better off bottling now after 2 weeks of fermentation, or leave it another week in the fermenter before bottling? If I bottle now, that gives it 4 weeks to carb up, and it seems like it can continue to bottle condition. If I let it ferment another week, then I'm only giving it 3 weeks to carb up, which may not be enough time. Is the main benefit of leaving it in the fermenter just to allow it more time to clear up? Considering this is a dunkelweizen, I'm not sure it needs to be too clear.

On the subject of cold crashing, what temp would I be aiming for? I don't have a fridge with temp control, but I use a water bath to stabilize my fermentation temperature. I could potentially put a lot of ice in the water bath to drop the temp for about 2 days.

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If the yeast are dropping out, and you have a stable hydrometer reading that doesn't taste like green apples and butter, the beer is pretty much done. The super extended primary thing is mostly a guide for impatient new brewers to eliminate the possibilities of bottling too soon. Most beers are way done before three weeks. Would I trust a new homebrewer to make that decision? No, so we tell them to leave it three weeks and then bottle.

Your beer will be clearer if you leave it sit longer. It will also be clearer if you cold crash. Cold crashing is just faster. I chill my beer to 40F-45F in my son-of-a-fermentation-chiller or fridge if there's room. 2 days or son does the trick for me, yeast strain dependent.

I am still using secondaries and cold crashing simultaneously.... i ONLY do it because I THINK I get less trub in the bottling bucket that way. I just cram the racking cane into the trub and siphon to secondary which gets a little trub but ALL of the beer. Then cold crash a few days and do the same thing going into the bottling bucket. NO trub..... How do you guys go from primary to bottling without picking up a lot of trub or leaving a lot of beer? It would make my life easier to know this.... Keep in mind my beers are primaried ( after reading here a LOT) for at LEAST 3 weeks and closer to 4 before going into secondary and cold crash. Matter of fact I JUST racked a porter into secondary and stuck it in the cooler this afternoon.

smizak said:

If the yeast are dropping out, and you have a stable hydrometer reading that doesn't taste like green apples and butter, the beer is pretty much done. The super extended primary thing is mostly a guide for impatient new brewers to eliminate the possibilities of bottling too soon. Most beers are way done before three weeks. Would I trust a new homebrewer to make that decision? No, so we tell them to leave it three weeks and then bottle. .

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Excuse me, but I am hardly an Impatient new brewer needing to slow down. And I call BS on your statement.

I've been doing it for the last 4 years and advocating it because it works. I have scores and medals, and comments from judges to prove it (even from overlapping and offering two beers 1 extended and one not with the extended primary scoring better and getting better comments.

I have had judges remark that my beers have a "jewel like appearance" and "Clean and crisp tasting."

I even posted somewhere on here not too long ago an unsolicited facebook message from an "off duty" beer judge who had informally tasted my beers at the big brew day and she sent me this note.

There's nothing that is such a relief as someone asking you to try their brews and finding that they're clean and free of off aromas or flavors... all of yours were so nice that way!

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Even PALMER WAAAAYYYYY back in the first edition and despite the autolysis fear said

How To Brew said:

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

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Those of us who do it, don't do it because we're lazy or whatever other BS you think. We do it because over and over we have found that our beers are BETTER this way.


I think we're much beyond the BS debate about it's risks or merits...there's enough of us who see the MERITS in doing it....

Revvy said:

Excuse me, but I am hardly an Impatient new brewer needing to slow down. And I call BS on your statement.

I've been doing it for the last 4 years and advocating it because it works. I have scores and medals, and comments from judges to prove it (even from overlapping and offering two beers 1 extended and one not with the extended primary scoring better and getting better comments.

I have had judges remark that my beers have a "jewel like appearance" and "Clean and crisp tasting."

I even posted somewhere on here not too long ago an unsolicited facebook message from an "off duty" beer judge who had informally tasted my beers at the big brew day and she sent me this note.



Even PALMER WAAAAYYYYY back in the first edition and despite the autolysis fear said



Those of us who do it, don't do it because we're lazy or whatever other BS you think. We do it because over and over we have found that our beers are BETTER this way.


I think we're much beyond the BS debate about it's risks or merits...there's enough of us who see the MERITS in doing it....

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Dude seriously? What did I post that was "BS"? I've never posted that there was anything wrong with extended primary, just that it's not always necessary. If it works for you, fine, it's worked for me too. But fermenting for a week and cold crashing and bottling after ten days has produced outstanding beers for me as well. I whole-heartedly agree with new brewers in particular doing a 3 week minimum, here, I'll include the part of my post you conveniently clipped out when you decided to troll me.

smizak said:

Noob brewer: Leave your beer in primary for three weeks for your first couple brews. Taste them regularly and become familiar with what fermentation looks like and with what a finished, un-carbed beer tastes like. Then you can start to monkey around with speeding things up.

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While we're having a pissing contest here, I've got more than dozen medals, including 43 point gold medal American Amber Ale I bottled after 8 days IIRC.

I'm not going to quote or mis-quote Revvy one way or the other... having said that, I had a beer sit on a yeast cake for *6 months*. This beer had no autolysis flavours in it. While YMMV, I doubt that I have mistaken those flavours for others in the Cervesa type beer profile.

I have a beer on primary for a 3 weeks, and it will be about five days before it gets bottled. Honestly, this is part laziness and part design.

I've never mentioned autolysis, so I don't know where that came from. I merely like to point out that an experienced brewer does not necessarily need to leave his beer in primary for a month before packaging. That's all.

smizak said:

I've never mentioned autolysis, so I don't know where that came from. I merely like to point out that an experienced brewer does not necessarily need to leave his beer in primary for a month before packaging. That's all.

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I agree, but most of the experienced brewers that I know are in the brewing business, and require more throughput than the recreational homebrewer. I leave my beers sur lees, it works for me; if it doesn't work for you, then you don't have to.

I rejoice in our differences.

OHIOSTEVE said:

I am still using secondaries and cold crashing simultaneously.... i ONLY do it because I THINK I get less trub in the bottling bucket that way. I just cram the racking cane into the trub and siphon to secondary which gets a little trub but ALL of the beer. Then cold crash a few days and do the same thing going into the bottling bucket. NO trub..... How do you guys go from primary to bottling without picking up a lot of trub or leaving a lot of beer? It would make my life easier to know this.... Keep in mind my beers are primaried ( after reading here a LOT) for at LEAST 3 weeks and closer to 4 before going into secondary and cold crash. Matter of fact I JUST racked a porter into secondary and stuck it in the cooler this afternoon.

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Anyway, I tell you what I do and hope I don't get told it's "wrong".

I don't secondary.

I brew 6 gallon batches, lose 1/2 gallon to trub in kettle, get 5 1/2 gallons in fermenter, after fermentation/dry hopping, I crash the carboy to around 40F for two or three days. I rack very carefully with minimal disturbance. I only allow the tip of my autosiphon to touch the very center of the bottom of the carboy when the beer level gets there, I try to hold it off the bottom for most of the transfer. No tipping of carboy. I lose exactly a 1/2 gallon of beer to the yeast/trub, get 5 gallons into my bottling bucket with very minimal amount of yeast. I get a light dusting in the bottom of my bottles. It's so little I hardly warn people about it when I give beer away, it barely makes a difference if you pour it in.

*AGAIN: DISCLAIMER*
This works for me. I'm sure there's a million other ways to make perfectly great beer.

drycreek said:

Let's put it this way. Suppose I want this beer to be ready to drink 4 weeks from now. Would I be better off bottling now after 2 weeks of fermentation, or leave it another week in the fermenter before bottling? If I bottle now, that gives it 4 weeks to carb up, and it seems like it can continue to bottle condition. If I let it ferment another week, then I'm only giving it 3 weeks to carb up, which may not be enough time. Is the main benefit of leaving it in the fermenter just to allow it more time to clear up? Considering this is a dunkelweizen, I'm not sure it needs to be too clear.

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Erm, trying to get back to your question...

If you want the beer ready in 4 weeks, I'd go ahead and bottle now. Most of my bottled beers took 3 weeks to lose the green taste, but some still had some residual green flavors and needed an extra week.

OK...so leaving the beer on the yeast cake for 3-4 weeks won't create any bad tastes. What about leaving a porter on the yeast cake for 5-6 weeks? I have a porter that I missread the primary brewing date on and I think it has been in the primary for at least 5-6 weeks. I will get to bottle it on Saturday and hope it will still be ok.

Should I just relax and drink more homebrew?

msa8967 said:

What about leaving a porter on the yeast cake for 5-6 weeks? I have a porter that I missread the primary brewing date on and I think it has been in the primary for at least 5-6 weeks. I will get to bottle it on Saturday and hope it will still be ok.

Should I just relax and drink more homebrew?

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Yes...I just posted this today. It's about my Chocolate mole porter v-3 (version two picked up a bronze in the World Expo of Beer HB comp in the Herb spice category)

Revvy said:

BTW, last night I finally bottled the chocolate mole porter that I brewed on 5-27-10. I had car issues and then health issues and other things that prevented me from getting around to it til last night.

SO it is nearly 5 months old. And it tastes amazing, and is crystal clear (at least as clear as a jet black beer can be) and tastes perfect. No off flavors or aromas whatsoever.

I don't think I've ever had a beer that was so clear...and the yeast cake was so tight that it was like concrete in the bottom, and I racked off what appeared to be the entire 5 gallons of liquid, and almost no sediment or hops.

I'll know more in a month when it's carbed and conditioned, but I think it is going to be perfect when it is done. I'll have some BJCp judge friends blind taste it to see. But I don't think there is a hint of "autolysis" or other nasty nonsense in there.

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I use Brewcraft 7 gallon (they hold 8+ gallons) plastic fermentation buckets. What is the opinion in doing long primaries in these, so I can play with eliminating secondaries? They are fairly air tight.......

sacrifice said:

I use Brewcraft 7 gallon (they hold 8+ gallons) plastic fermentation buckets. What is the opinion in doing long primaries in these, so I can play with eliminating secondaries? They are fairly air tight.......

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Yes, they are fine.

sacrifice said:

I use Brewcraft 7 gallon (they hold 8+ gallons) plastic fermentation buckets. What is the opinion in doing long primaries in these, so I can play with eliminating secondaries? They are fairly air tight.......

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That depends on what you mean by "long primaries". Plastic buckets are oxygen permiable, so I wouldn't leave it in a plastic bucket for 6 months, but you should be fine for a month or so.