Saison Dupont from Clone Brews

I made this recipe (the extract + grain version) verbatim (I did adjust it to a 5.5 gal batch), using Wyeast 1214 Abbey Ale. It's been in the bottle about 4 1/2 weeks now.

This is the best beer I've ever made: gorgeous pale orange color, crisp flavor with a balance of bitterness, spiciness, belgian yeast tang and mild maltiness, and subtle orange peel & EKG aroma hops.

This recipe is a winner. Next time I try it I may increase the hop level slightly and try the more peppery 3522 or 3724. (3724 is weird--temp range up to 85 F!)

About the yeast, Wyeast 3724 is their culture of Saison Dupont's yeast. At Dupont, Saison is fermented between 85F-95F so that the primary fermentation happens very quickly. Some believe that this strain of yeast is related to red wine yeasts. Both are fermented at very high tempertures and both are very high attenuators. I'm thinking about spliting a batch of Saison, fermenting one with 3724 and the other with RC-212 (Lalvin's Burgundy strain) in my un-ACed appartment while I'm in Costa Rica for a few weeks to see how close the results are.

and the recipe is......drum roll.....

cweston said:

(3724 is weird--temp range up to 85 F!)

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A lot of the Belgian yeasts have really high upper limits which really makes me wonder. I haven't been a big Belgian fan in the past, but I'm definitely planning to try some this summer when my house is warmer.

Came in on this late, but boy am I glad I found this post! I was just about to make the Saison from Clone Brews and this post just confirmed it! Thanks!

cweston said:

I made this recipe (the extract + grain version) verbatim (I did adjust it to a 5.5 gal batch), using Wyeast 1214 Abbey Ale. It's been in the bottle about 4 1/2 weeks now.

This is the best beer I've ever made: gorgeous pale orange color, crisp flavor with a balance of bitterness, spiciness, belgian yeast tang and mild maltiness, and subtle orange peel & EKG aroma hops.

This recipe is a winner. Next time I try it I may increase the hop level slightly and try the more peppery 3522 or 3724. (3724 is weird--temp range up to 85 F!)

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You post all this tasty sounding info and no recipe?

Dude said:

You post all this tasty sounding info and no recipe?

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from Clone Brews:

.5 lb vienna (steep)

5.75 lb x-light DME
1 lb wheat DME
1 lb clear candi sugar

1.4 oz Styrian Goldings (7 AAU) 60 min
.5 oz EKG 15 min
.5 oz bitter orange peel 15 min
1 tsp irish moss 15 min
.25 oz EKG 5 minutes

Yeast from Saision Dupont bottle or Wyeast 1214

Only half a pound of grains? Im new to this but that doesnt seem like a lot to me. How long do you steep and at what temp?

chask31 said:

Only half a pound of grains? Im new to this but that doesnt seem like a lot to me. How long do you steep and at what temp?

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20-30 minutes at 150-165 F is typical.

Saison is a fairly crisp and dry style, so no crystal, etc.

As in most Belgians, the character comes largely from the yeast.

Was that recipe after your adjustment to the 5.5 gallons?

chask31 said:

Was that recipe after your adjustment to the 5.5 gallons?

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Oops--no, that was straight from the book.

How many gallons was the books recipe for? Was planning to pick some ingredients up for this one today and brew. Sorry to be such a pain.

Also, are the orange peels something you pick up at the HBS or just peel off an orange?

chask31 said:

Only half a pound of grains? Im new to this but that doesnt seem like a lot to me. How long do you steep and at what temp?

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5.75 lb x-light DME
1 lb wheat DME
1 lb clear candi sugar

Don't forget the 7.75 lbs of other fermentables. (Candi sugar is fermentable, right?)

chask31 said:

How many gallons was the books recipe for? Was planning to pick some ingredients up for this one today and brew. Sorry to be such a pain.

Also, are the orange peels something you pick up at the HBS or just peel off an orange?

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Book's recipe = 5 gallons

Bitter orange peel (also known as curacau orange peel) is a dried product that you get from the HBS. You can't substitute fresh orange peel, and unlike sweet dried orange peel, I've never seen bitter orange peel available anywhere but a HBS.

cweston said:

Bitter orange peel (also known as curacau orange peel) is a dried product that you get from the HBS. You can't substitute fresh orange peel, and unlike sweet dried orange peel.

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Waking the dead.

I just brewed this one up last week, fermented awsome with the abby ale yeast. I wouldn't say you "can't" use fresh orange peel, because i did. Why would you say not to use it? I used mostly just the peel, and a little of the white to get it a little bitter, not much tho. I also used quite a bit, probably close to 2 cups. The beer should glow. I was going to use the dry stuff, but after hearing the Jamil show on saison, i decided to go with fresh. I'll post how it turns out.

Ryan

I was under the impression that Dupont didn´t add spices to their Saison... Am I wrong?

Here´s from an article by Michael Jackson visiting the brewery:

"He told me that he used only pale malt in Saison Dupont, that his water was hard, and that the hops were mainly Kent Goldings, with some Hallertaus. He made two additions in the kettle, but no longer dry-hopped. When I first tasted these beers, about 15 years ago, I thought they had even more character, and perhaps that was why.

M. Rosier said that, after primary fermentation, there was a week or two of warm-conditioning in a metal tank. This was followed by centrifuging, re-yea sting (with a different culture), priming, and a good fortnight of maturation in bottle."

Whole article here:
Michael Jackson's Beer Hunter - A seasonal search for the phantom of brewing

Saison Dupont Bio says on the label that there is wheat syrup in it, though...

I am also planning to brew a Saison DuPont clone.

According to the Clone Brews book, it calls for Wyeast 3711 French Saison or 3724 Belgian Saison yeast.

I never thought to grow yeast from a bottle of Saison Dupont. Can that actually work?

RudeLead said:

I was under the impression that Dupont didn´t add spices to their Saison... Am I wrong?

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According to Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" Saison Du Pont does not contain spices. An excerpt from the book:

"Fermentation esters and hop aromatics dominate the aroma and flavor of Saison Vielle Provision, which, the brewmaster insists, contains no spices."

I agree. To me a saison is a style that that should have the yeast do all the talking. No spices.

I've read forum posts with people having favorable results with cultured dregs. You just have to consider that the bottles took a while to get over to the US and you're not getting the freshest yeast. I've pitched a 5g batch with a vial of wlp565 and some Saison Dupont dregs that I cultured up for a couple days and had great results (it was a little over 1.070 OG, so I wasn't overpitching), but I can't speak to only dregs from my own experience. I say give it a try, and be sure to get the temp up.

Yep, I made a saison from yeast I cultured from a bottle of Fouret, which is the organic version of dupont.

I fermented it in the mid-70s. It came out with a lot more funk than you normally get in a saison. I like it, but it wasn't what I was expecting. It smelled a lot like dupont when I first stepped up the bottle culture but as it grew up it was less like dupont and more funky.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

<snip> a bottle of Fouret, which is the organic version of dupont.

.

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Nope that would be Saison Dupont Biologique, Dupont Foret is just another organic saison.

I made the ag version of that brew from the same book with 1214 and 3711. I liked both, but the brew with 3711 was better. Either way, a very good brew.

For those that want the ag recipe:
9.5# pilsner (i used pale)
1# Belgian wheat
1/2# vienna
1# clear candi sugar
1.4 oz Styrian Goldings (bittering)
1/2 oz East Kent Goldings (flavor)
1/2 oz bitter orange peel
1/4 oz East Kent Goldings (aroma)