English IPAs

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stevedore

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I've recently tried some Goose Island and Meantime IPAs and I found them to be incredibly delicious. While I definitely enjoy the American style IPAs, I'm wondering what other English style IPAs are out there.

On a HB note, anyone ever try making their own? I imagine it needs swapping out the American hops for something like East Kent Goldings.
 
It's mostly in the yeast selection and grain bill. You can use American hops (won't be 'to style'), but you would want some earthy or danky hops in there...definitely a subdued hop profile
 
Greene King IPA's another one I like. Deuchars IPA is from Scotland and oh soooo delicious!

...mind I think you might have trouble finding any stateside...Canada is usually a better place to find Scottish products for what it's worth.
 
I'm only brewing styles from the British Isles, so English IPA's, and ESB's, are very often either in fermenting vessel, in keg, or on deck. I kegged my MO SMaSH IPA a few days ago, using Maris Otter malt, EKG hops, and Wyeast 1882-PC Thames Valley II yeast. I do agree that malt and yeast choices are important, but so is the hop selection. Especially when you're adding the flavor and aroma hops (or dry hopping). My only deviation from the published style is I used the hop bursting technique. 7.5oz of hops all 20 minutes from the end (2oz @20, 1.5oz @15, 1oz @10, 1oz@5, and 2oz @1). This is for a 6.5-7 gallons (to keg) batch. The EKG harvest was at 7.20% AA (so you know). Came out to about 48-49 IBU's (almost the middle of the range) but the hop flavor (from the sample I took at kegging time) is great. Looking forward to having it by the pint. I also mashed at 154 with this batch, to retain more malt flavors. My previous MO SMaSH (ESB) I mashed at 150.

I would advise getting all English/UK ingredients for your English IPA. IMO, going with US hops takes away from what it could have been. Maris Otter malt, and EKG hops are NOT difficult to find/get all over the place. If your LHBS doesn't have both, I'd be surprised. If they don't, then just order it up online and don't worry about it. :D
 
It's an awesome style and one of my favorites. Honkers ale is a nice take on the style. Hopefully they don't start messing with the recipe.

+1 on Green King's IPA. I see this a lot in the US. Loved it while I was in the UK for a few years.
Fullers makes a nice IPA which may make it to the US - a lot of their products do.
Southampton (US) makes a Burton IPA which is good as well. I've only seen it in NY.

Couldn't agree more about Goldiggie's points on the ingredients. They are all easy to obtain. A fresh English IPA has a certain taste profile that's hard to replicate without authentic ingredients. For some of them like a Burton IPA the water matters as well, but at least where I live the water works well for most English beerstyles.
 
It's mostly in the yeast selection and grain bill.

I'd say it's mostly the hop profile. Those earthy, Noble hops are really what signifies an English IPA.

There are plenty of top-rated, hoppy West-Coast style American IPAs with English malts and/or yeasts. Lagunitas included. You would never label these as English IPAs when you smell/taste them.

Elysian Immortal IPA is termed "English IPA" but the use of American hops, high aroma, and smooth bitterness of the beer make it fantastic. A favorite of mine for sure, but keep in mind, I tend to dislike English-hopped IPAs.
 
Left Hand's 400 lb. Monkey is pretty good. A new local brewery here in Dallas (Peticolas) took gold at GABF for Classic English Style Pale Ale for Royal Scandal. I tried it at their brewery last weekend and it is amazing stuff.
 
I'd say it's mostly the hop profile. Those earthy, Noble hops are really what signifies an English IPA.

There are plenty of top-rated, hoppy West-Coast style American IPAs with English malts and/or yeasts. You would never label these as English IPAs when you smell/taste them.

Elysian Immortal IPA is termed "English IPA" but the use of American hops, high aroma, and smooth bitterness of the beer make it fantastic. A favorite of mine for sure, but keep in mind, I tend to dislike English-hopped IPAs.

I tried an "English IPA" from a brew pub I used to go to (location in Framingham, MA, same plaza as Best Buy and Bob's :eek:) that was too bitter and used all US hops. :cross: I think they used an US yeast strain too. Don't remember if I was able to find out the malts used, but I doubt it was MO, or even UK 2-row (Pale Ale) malt. :rolleyes: Just glad I tried a sample size before committing to a full pint.

BTW, pretty sure 'Noble hops' are not used in English IPA's...
"A lot of home brewers are familiar with the term “Noble Hops” which refers to four variety of continental European hops originally grown in Central Europe. The four hop varieties are Tettnanger, Spalt, Hallertauer and Saaz."

EKG is included in the 'The “Nearly Noble” Hops' category.
"In addition to the four hops listed above (and their variants), you will often hear of other hops occasionally listed as noble hops. These include English Fuggles, East Kent Golding, (Hallertauer) Hersbrucker, and Styrian Goldings (a Fuggle variant). While none of these are actually true noble hops, they share many of the noble hop characteristics of being highly aromatic and having low alpha acid.

Also due to the pressured of land usage in Central Europe, diseases and pests and the move of many commercial brewers towards high yield, high alpha hops (for hop extract), the supply of true noble hops has been steadily decreasing for decades. Growers are instead producing hybrids or variants such as Liberty (a cross of Hallertauer Mittlefruh with a disease resistant US hop) or Mt Hood (a higher alpha acid hybrid). Variants of the nearly noble hops above such as Willamette (derived from Fuggles) are also widely grown in the United States."

:smack:

Personally, I really, really, really like EKG. Fuggles is ok, when used in moderation and properly. I like to use Target and Northdown for bittering additions from time to time too (when I don't want to use too much EKG).

IMO, any brews produced as "English" or from the British Isles should have the flavors from there. That means hop flavors/aromas should be from native hop varieties. IMO, using US, German, etc. varieties for the flavor and aroma immediately removes it from being an actual/true English style brew. It can be 'in the English style' but that's as close as it gets.

Carry on.
 
Okay, well then "nearly" Noble hops. They're still very grassy/earthy and higher in caroyphyllene, humulene, and farnesene than American hops, which are higher in myrcene and total alpha acids on average. So I tend to separate them into two simplistic categories based on these facts/traits. Though, New Zealand hops kind of have traits of both... sort of a middle ground. Either way I don't care for European hops in dry, bitter IPAs (unless they're mixed in with American hops). More than the yeast & malt profile, it's really those vegetal, grassy, earthy, hay-like flavors/aromas that signify English IPA to me; which is completely opposite to the citrusy, tropical, fruity, dank, piney traits we see in American hopped IPAs. And also, obviously the level of bitterness.

The four hop varieties are Terrnanger, Spalt, Hallertauer and Saaz."

I think you meant Tettnanger.
 
Okay, well then "nearly" Noble hops. They're still very grassy/earthy and higher in caroyphyllene, humulene, and farnesene than American hops, which are higher in myrcene and total alpha acids on average. So I tend to separate them into two simplistic categories based on these facts/traits. Though, New Zealand hops kind of have traits of both... sort of a middle ground. Either way I don't care for European hops in dry, bitter IPAs (unless they're mixed in with American hops). More than the yeast & malt profile, it's really those vegetal, grassy, earthy, hay-like flavors/aromas that signify English IPA to me; which is completely opposite to the citrusy, tropical, fruity, dank, piney traits we see in American hopped IPAs. And also, obviously the level of bitterness.



I think you meant Tettnanger.

I did a copy/paste from a site without seeing that...

BTW, IMO/IME, an English IPA beats the American version every time. At least for me it does. I've gotten to loathe the hops most places use for flavor and aroma in American pale ales/IPAs. Any time I try one, I just can't enjoy it. Give me EKG (at the right use) and I'm a happy drinker. :ban:
 
an English IPA beats the American version every time. At least for me it does. I've gotten to loathe the hops most places use for flavor and aroma in American pale ales/IPAs. Any time I try one, I just can't enjoy it. Give me EKG (at the right use) and I'm a happy drinker. :ban:

Erroneous on all accounts :) Just kidding, but I fervently disagree. I actually have the exact opposite feelings about American hops as you do. And to think... you live so close to Vermont with all those great local hoppy American beers! Shame Shame Shame ;)
 
lucky me living in London UK, i brew a lot of english IPA (or as i call them, IPA) for me english ipa must be maris otter, low on the speciality, a little sugar, and predominantly english hops. yum
 
My English IPA is very simple, maris otter, british crystal 55, EKG and challenger hops. It got 3rd place at LA county fair.
 
I think an English IPA is going to be one of my next brews. It probably won't have a complicated recipe indeed. I wonder though if it can be done at all with extract. I'm thinking about going BIAB but I haven't made that step yet. My LHBS should have the right yeast and hops, though.
 
When brewing English beer, IPA or not, your first thought should be the same as if you were making a Belgian or a lager. That is, about yeast!

Look back through history and you'll see the Brits brewing with pretty much everything under the sun... American hops, Czech hops, English hops, Californian malt, Turkish malt, French sugar, American maize, and the list goes on. But guess what stayed the same... you guessed it, yeast.

Therefore, if you would like to brew an English IPA... and not an English 'inspired' IPA... take a minute and consider why using a proper English yeast (and not S-04 or Notty) might just be more important than what variety of hops you are using. :D
 
I did a copy/paste from a site without seeing that...

BTW, IMO/IME, an English IPA beats the American version every time. At least for me it does. I've gotten to loathe the hops most places use for flavor and aroma in American pale ales/IPAs. Any time I try one, I just can't enjoy it. Give me EKG (at the right use) and I'm a happy drinker. :ban:

I can't agree more. I find most English IPA's to be just the perfect combination of malt and hops, and just love the mild hop aroma. Just real easy to drink and enjoy without all that bitterness and citrus wham. I just bottled my second batch two weeks ago and can't wait to get into it around Christmas time.

My next batch (and first AG for me) will actually be a Wit, but then I'll go back to the comfort of an ESB or English IPA. I think I need to go through your recipes.
 
English IPA's in the US seem quite often to be higher in gravity than some I've had in UK. I'm trying to come up with a recipe from a local UK brewery from my youth, sadly closed in 1992 after 150 yrs. They had a lovely golden IPA that came in at 1038 OG and was a lovely summery pint.
 
Erroneous on all accounts :) Just kidding, but I fervently disagree. I actually have the exact opposite feelings about American hops as you do. And to think... you live so close to Vermont with all those great local hoppy American beers! Shame Shame Shame ;)

I have yet to try an American IPA that's worth going into my glass. Don't care where it's come from.

lucky me living in London UK, i brew a lot of english IPA (or as i call them, IPA) for me english ipa must be maris otter, low on the speciality, a little sugar, and predominantly english hops. yum

You bastard. Direct access to all that. :drunk: I don't use any sugar in my batches. Just haven't seen the need for it. Check out my MO SMaSH recipes if you like.

My English IPA is very simple, maris otter, british crystal 55, EKG and challenger hops. It got 3rd place at LA county fair.

I'll post up my MO SMaSH IPA later. The sample I pulled for the FG (before transferring to serving kegs) had the right amount of hop flavor (and a touch of aroma, in the uncarbonated sample) to make me smile. One 3 gallon keg is in the fridge and the balance is on gas in the basement. :rockin:

I think an English IPA is going to be one of my next brews. It probably won't have a complicated recipe indeed. I wonder though if it can be done at all with extract. I'm thinking about going BIAB but I haven't made that step yet. My LHBS should have the right yeast and hops, though.

I believe there's a Maris Otter extract available. Not sure about pricing and availability, but it would be about the only extract I'd even briefly consider for such a batch.

English IPA's in the US seem quite often to be higher in gravity than some I've had in UK. I'm trying to come up with a recipe from a local UK brewery from my youth, sadly closed in 1992 after 150 yrs. They had a lovely golden IPA that came in at 1038 OG and was a lovely summery pint.

I've made a lower ABV version of mine. Well, closer to 5.5%. For me, that is lower. :D I might try to make one in the 4.5 area come early spring time. That way it will be ready come summer. I'll probably go with a 12 gallon batch size (to kegs), so that I have enough to fill four serving kegs. That way, if it goes fast, I'll have plenty on hand to not have to brew it too often. Need to brew other things after all. :D
 
I can't agree more. I find most English IPA's to be just the perfect combination of malt and hops, and just love the mild hop aroma. Just real easy to drink and enjoy without all that bitterness and citrus wham. I just bottled my second batch two weeks ago and can't wait to get into it around Christmas time.

My next batch (and first AG for me) will actually be a Wit, but then I'll go back to the comfort of an ESB or English IPA. I think I need to go through your recipes.

lucky me living in London UK, i brew a lot of english IPA (or as i call them, IPA) for me english ipa must be maris otter, low on the speciality, a little sugar, and predominantly english hops. yum

Do you guys have a recipe that I can take a look at?

English IPA's in the US seem quite often to be higher in gravity than some I've had in UK. I'm trying to come up with a recipe from a local UK brewery from my youth, sadly closed in 1992 after 150 yrs. They had a lovely golden IPA that came in at 1038 OG and was a lovely summery pint.

Please be kind enough to share the recipe with us once you figure it out! It sounds delicious.

Overall I'm pretty sure I want my next batch to be English-style. Next time I go over to the LHBS I'll check to see if they have Maris Otter. Otherwise I'll just order online.
 
stevedore, the recipes I've posted are all using UK ingredients. Some are not strictly to style parameters, but they're still damned fine brews. All English/UK yeast strains, hops and almost all my malts are from the UK (except for honey malt, which I wish I could get from an UK maltster). My caramel ale has converted more than a few BMC drinkers over to the right side of beer. :rockin:

I did post up my MO SMaSH IPA earlier tonight, if you care to check it out. Simple to brew, and so damned fine. :D
 
stevedore, the recipes I've posted are all using UK ingredients. Some are not strictly to style parameters, but they're still damned fine brews. All English/UK yeast strains, hops and almost all my malts are from the UK (except for honey malt, which I wish I could get from an UK maltster). My caramel ale has converted more than a few BMC drinkers over to the right side of beer. :rockin:

I did post up my MO SMaSH IPA earlier tonight, if you care to check it out. Simple to brew, and so damned fine. :D

Yeah! I'm looking through it now and thinking about how to do it. It might be a good time as any to convert and try a BIAB.. but first things first, gotta find out if I can obtain the supplies at the LHBS.
 
Yeah! I'm looking through it now and thinking about how to do it. It might be a good time as any to convert and try a BIAB.. but first things first, gotta find out if I can obtain the supplies at the LHBS.

If they don't have the stuff, plenty of the online vendors do. Hardest part could be getting the yeast. I'm about to freeze some 1882-PC vials for longer term use. That way, if Wyeast doesn't release it again for more than a year, I'll still be brewing with it. :rockin:
 
AFAIK it looks like they have the 1882 available (in season but I won't know for sure until I walk in there), EKG's and Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt. But no Maris Otter in extract. So I'm going to do some research into BIABs and see if I can swing it with the equipment I have (I did just invest in a 7.5g stock pot recently, but no mashtun). In the meantime I can always test out the recipe in a 1 gal setup.. and whet my appetite? :cross:
 
If they still have some 1882, then it's getting old. I hope you have a stirplate and flask already. I did a two step starter the last time I used some 1882-PC, to get close enough to the needed cell count. Yeastcalc.com will help you out there (gives you up to three starter step options).

If you have a decent sized cooler already, you might be able to convert that into a mash tun. Or at least install a ball valve and use it to mash in with the BIAB model.

BTW, I've successfully used up to 12 month old yeast packages/vials already. Just means you really do NEED to make starters (even for a low OG brew). I have some in the fridge from September 2011, that I just can't bring myself to toss out. I'll probably plan a starter schedule and use it in an upcoming batch. Probably in January/February. :eek: :D
 
If u like English IPA's you shoud try making or buying Adnams southwold, if its available there in the US. It's my favourite beer ATM. Will be making a clone next :)
 
IMO, any brews produced as "English" or from the British Isles should have the flavors from there. That means hop flavors/aromas should be from native hop varieties. IMO, using US, German, etc. varieties for the flavor and aroma immediately removes it from being an actual/true English style brew. It can be 'in the English style' but that's as close as it gets.
Loads of 19th century British IPA's used American or continenal hops. I keep trying to get someone to brew the WIlliam Younger IPA from the 1860's that was hopped with Fuggles and Saaz.
 
Loads of 19th century British IPA's used American or continenal hops. I keep trying to get someone to brew the WIlliam Younger IPA from the 1860's that was hopped with Fuggles and Saaz.

Want to try making it yourself? ;)
 
Do you guys have a recipe that I can take a look at?

honestly, theres so many that i wouldnt know which to choose.

heres my ballpark IPA brew for uk 5gal

i go 95-97% Maris otter
3-5% cristal
2oz english hops @ either 75 or 60 min boil
1oz english half hour
1oz 15 + irish moss (sometimes use american 'c' hops or amarillo about here)
1oz english @ flame
more oz dry hop
8oz caster, dermerera or jaggery (indian cane sugar, gives and irony, nutty flavor)
aim for sg between 1.42 and 1.055

i play with hop times and the only constant i go for is there is allways a hop addition at boil and at flame. as long as the beer is bitter and noticeably hoppy, i say hey, its an IPA.

usually mash between 64 and 66c, for 90 mins, use nottingham or us-04, or harvested yeast.

no secondary, airated wort.

i like my ipa's dry and fresh, usually about 2-3 weeks after bottling to keep the hop aroma up and the strong flavor of maris otter under control, i get lots of friends over and well, you know the rest...
 
I'm only brewing styles from the British Isles, so English IPA's, and ESB's, are very often either in fermenting vessel, in keg, or on deck. I kegged my MO SMaSH IPA a few days ago, using Maris Otter malt, EKG hops, and Wyeast 1882-PC Thames Valley II yeast. I do agree that malt and yeast choices are important, but so is the hop selection. Especially when you're adding the flavor and aroma hops (or dry hopping). My only deviation from the published style is I used the hop bursting technique. 7.5oz of hops all 20 minutes from the end (2oz @20, 1.5oz @15, 1oz @10, 1oz@5, and 2oz @1). This is for a 6.5-7 gallons (to keg) batch. The EKG harvest was at 7.20% AA (so you know). Came out to about 48-49 IBU's (almost the middle of the range) but the hop flavor (from the sample I took at kegging time) is great. Looking forward to having it by the pint. I also mashed at 154 with this batch, to retain more malt flavors. My previous MO SMaSH (ESB) I mashed at 150.

I would advise getting all English/UK ingredients for your English IPA. IMO, going with US hops takes away from what it could have been. Maris Otter malt, and EKG hops are NOT difficult to find/get all over the place. If your LHBS doesn't have both, I'd be surprised. If they don't, then just order it up online and don't worry about it. :D

I too brew almost exclusively British Isles varieties of beer. I think I made a mistake this year and purchased a bunch of US Goldings in place of East Kent Goldings. I had read several opinions stating that it made almost no difference or that people couldn't really tell the difference. Well, I brew ESBs every 2nd or 3rd batch and the two I've brewed with US Goldings were VERY different than the ones I've been brewing for the last 3 years with EKG. Possibly my older EKG had lost some kick and I snagged this US Goldings the day it was released on hopsdirect. I also upped my hops a bit. I'm trying to tell myself that if I reduce the hops a little I might be back where I was, but so far I'm very disappointed and I'm considering biting the bullet and getting a bulk order of EKG, which would mean my 2lbs of USG would probably go to waste.

Anyway, do you have an opinion on EKG vs USG? I use 1469 West Yorkshire yeast, MO a little British crystal malt and Biscuit malt.
 
Check this out. I have the ESB sitting in the fermenter right now, so I can't say how it is, but looks like a solid recipe. And I subbed Fawcett Optic for the Maris Otter.

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Also, to the OP, I think Furthermore brewing has a nice English style ale. And if you can find Fuller's ESB on tap, it is freakin' awesome.
 
I am certainly coming back to read this whole thread and have subscribed, but I did want to make an observation while I am drinking on this...

I went for a growler of Southern Tier 2xIPA yesterday, but the beer store was out...so on a whim I picked up the Sierra Nevada NH Harvest Ale pretty much expecting another "torpedo/celebration."

Wow, I am delighted with this beer, as it strikes me as an excellent English IPA brewed with (i think) American ingredients....but the yeast must surely be British?

...anyway, have any of you had similar impressions?
 
I had some of SN's Harvest on tap and I def agree - it was awesome.
 
I think Im gonna make an all Saaz IPA. Im feelin it. Although I just made and all fuggles IPA.wlp060 liquid blend yeast,and Organic Breiss 2 row/8%crystal malts. I forgot,think I was going to toast some of it,but im going more for the fuggles single hop to get to really see what this hop is like,although it seems unliked. It did well in an irish blonde i made but didnt really use that much in it.
 
I am certainly coming back to read this whole thread and have subscribed, but I did want to make an observation while I am drinking on this...

I went for a growler of Southern Tier 2xIPA yesterday, but the beer store was out...so on a whim I picked up the Sierra Nevada NH Harvest Ale pretty much expecting another "torpedo/celebration."

Wow, I am delighted with this beer, as it strikes me as an excellent English IPA brewed with (i think) American ingredients....but the yeast must surely be British?

...anyway, have any of you had similar impressions?

It's English? Are you sure? I haven't seen that one around but I'll keep an eye out. I do have a Southern Tier 2x in the fridge waiting for a tasting..
 
stevedore said:
It's English? Are you sure? I haven't seen that one around but I'll keep an eye out. I do have a Southern Tier 2x in the fridge waiting for a tasting..

Northern hem harvest is brewed with all cascade and centennial with their chico strain. So no I'd say its definitively us
 
Southern Hem is the more grassy, subdued of the two. But it's NZ or AUS inspired. Northern Hem is pungent & American.
 
Wow, it must be the fresh hop character that changes it so much. It does not taste like the run-of-the-mill American IPA at all to me.

I am very interested in British styles recently, mainly because I have trouble brewing them for some reason. My intention is to work on these almost exclusively in 2013. I will first work out a couple of recipes and find a yeast I like, then start playing with the water out of interest.
 

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